You don't want answers. It's foolish to engage you at all.

SantaClausowitz, you'll want to wait for Jesus to address your questions, since your last post shows you believe that he should defend his reputation personally. Funny man.

"You don't want answers. It's foolish to engage you at all."

And you don't want to face that their are no answers so I'm fine with you turning tail. I actually assume there is an answer because doctrine and dogma tend to close loopholes like this when given a few hundred years to do so, I just want to hear what it is.

This whole bs about not wanting to answer reminds me of the question I used to ask rabbis all the time about why we can't eat turkey with cheese, invariably they would answer "You just want to eat turkey with cheese, if you didn't would it matter?"
That pissed me off it was a cop out, there was a valid point for the question but it seemed they didnt know the answer so they turned it back on me
I was vindicated and this was confirmed when a rabbi gave us the real answer one day and explained some very learned rabbis actually held the same opinion as us and eat turkey with cheese in their lives.

What I am seeing is a string of cop outs to a complicated question. Mujus has engaged and I feel I respected his opinion (except the part about the hostility between Judaism and christianity being over 2000 years ago) and countered it. I will repost what I wrote earlier for anyone who knows what they are talking about and doesn't want to rely on cop outs.
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"If some Christians kill people for not being Christian does this mean the Christian religion is responsible? Does that necessarily follow? "

Of course not! If there is no truth to the religion, then it was just some people reading a book in a certain way to justify their murderous tendencies. Mujus and you, as well as a collection of papers that ostensibly preach peace are are certainly not culpable for the murders of innocents hundreds of years ago!

But if there is actually a big boss man in the sky who cares about love and forgiveness, wouldn't he want to end the killing of innocents in his name? And if he doesn't is he not responsible? "
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for now im going to sleep enjoy

"SantaClausowitz, you'll want to wait for Jesus to address your questions, since your last post shows you believe that he should defend his reputation personally. Funny man. "

Ooh Im scared. Jesus doesn't exist. He was a false messiah. And you don't even know anything about his false teachings that you claim to follow. Deal with it.

"How can Jesus let centuries of massacres continue to occur in his name."

The problem of evil. Is that was this thread about? The standard answer is "free will". Why not? It's no more implausible than the idea of God or any other religious ideas.
I'll say this in defense of Christianity, plenty of people do take a positive message from its ideas and manage to make a worthwhile contribution to humanity. (and of course the same is true of other religions too).
I don't get all the ranting and raving in this thread. It is not as if the inquisiton still exists. There would be very few people in this forum who are persecuted for their beliefs (or lack of beliefs).
Yes there are people in the world who are persecuted for their religious beliefs, but its not just religion. People persecute people for all sorts of reasons. Religion just is a convenient excuse for persecution, but its not the only excuse.

It is a bit rich for an atheist to interject the word ''false'' between the words ''a'' and ''messiah''. Perhaps he is a secular believer ;-). Isn't it amusing to watch the hoops that some people jump through?

+1 to spyman yes of course the debate is about free will. What is really being asked is why didn't your God create The Magic Kingdom, Orlando Florida? Santa, of all people, should know that this is not the point at issue.

Back to the Boss BS. When will he be deified, if he isn't already?

According to Mel Gibson, the jews handed Jesus Christ over to the Romans to be crucified.

Stop being so defensive, Clausoneshek. The Messiah came and youse missed it.

Bruce is sad because Clarence and Danny died.

@ Santa, you wrote "Now if you religious scholars want to take a break from ripping your shirts in anguish over this lost soul and point to where I am unfair in my original comments and questions, please feel free." Santa, I fully appreciate the validity and difficulty of your original question(s). But... take a look at the sentence of yours I just quoted. Is that a fair statement, do you think, or an overreaction that tends to shut down dialogue by really unwarranted attacks?
The other point I want to bring up is that I fully admit that terrible things have been committed in the name of Christianity. Some of the Crusades, for example, were mobs of people, nearly all Christians in name, and some Christians by faith, following leaders that were also guided by various motives. On various occasions Crusaders killed Jews and Muslims just because of their faith, they sacked Constantinople, a "Christian" city, and many of them raped, pillaged, stole, kidnapped, and murdered people. But I don't feel that you have addressed my basic point--that not everything that was done in the name of the Messiah (Christ) was done by true believers, and its corollary, that not all those who identify themselves culturally or nationally as Christians are in fact followers of the Messiah.

Putin, you wrote, "Christianity is Greek. Paul purged it of any remnants of Judaism. Christians now like to play up the supposed Jewishness of Christianity to deflect from the obvious anti-Semitism of the NT. Jesus is a Greek name (Iesous), not a Hebrew one."
Let me correct some false impressions in your post. First, Christianity is completely Hebrew in its origins, based on the Old Testament promises of a Messiah (Psalm 22 and I think every book prefigures his coming). Second, it was Peter, not Paul, who had the revelation that believers were no longer bound by Jewish dietary restrictions. Also, Paul himself was a Jew and at first a prominent persecutor of Christians, arresting and mistreating them, and in fact many people believe that he was the Saul who held Stephen's coat as he was being stoned, as seen in Acts 8:1. Your third point, that Iesous was a Greek name, is true, but that's how the Greeks transliterated Yeshua, which was Jesus' real name (although written in Hebrew letters, of course!). Specifically, the -s ending at the end of Jesus is the nominative case, but when Greeks spoke directly to him they would have said "Iesou," much more recognizable as the nearest Greek approximation of the Hebrew pronunciation of Yeshua.
Here's a reference for you: "The vocative case is identical to the accusative in the singular, and to the nominative in the plural. There is only one exception, a single case where the vocative has its own unique ending: the first masculine pattern (-ος) in the singular (vocative ending: -ε)." http://www.foundalis.com/lan/grknouns.htm

So a Christian fighting in the name of Jesus has the free will to kill a heathen and thereby confine him to purgatory for the rest of eternity (unless this is wrong). Now that is a little rich, no? Its funny the things that god will do to circumvent free will at some points and bring on a little miracle action, but obviously tens of thousands of women and children being slaughtered for an accident of birth and therefor being confined to an eternity of suffering does not pass the "get off of Jesus ass test."

"I don't get all the ranting and raving in this thread. It is not as if the inquisiton still exists. There would be very few people in this forum who are persecuted for their beliefs (or lack of beliefs).
Yes there are people in the world who are persecuted for their religious beliefs, but its not just religion. People persecute people for all sorts of reasons. Religion just is a convenient excuse for persecution, but its not the only excuse. "

If god is a timeless concept, and Jesus has remained the same from his worldly existence to today, as I'm sure most christians would argue, why did the inquisition ever exist? Did Jesus views "evolve?" And if you think persecution by christians in the name of christ is a thing of the past you should look what is happening to homosexuals today in Africa.

I appreciate the effort Ful, but of course Jesus was a false messiah whether god exists or not just like Shabbatai Tzvi was a false messiah. As usual your post is alot of gum flapping about nothing.

I didn't look at Mujus answer yet, I will when I have time.

Clarification--when I said "just because of their faith," I meant that the crusaders were attacking Jews and Moslems just because they weren't Christian. And they attacked Christians in Constantinople just because they wanted to pillage--sure signs that they were not guided by faith in Jesus Christ, Yeshua the Messiah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tNLvNOu9Mw

Paul is the father of anti-Judaism. He decisively broke Christianity from any connection to Judaism.

"For you brothers, become imitators of God's churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus. You suffered from your countrymen the same things those churches suffered from the Jews, who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to all men in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved."

Paul ruthlessly attacks "Jewish Christians" throughout his epistles.

So I've heard diplomacy is a cool game

"Your third point, that Iesous was a Greek name, is true, but that's how the Greeks transliterated Yeshua, which was Jesus' real name (although written in Hebrew letters, of course!). Specifically, the -s ending at the end of Jesus is the nominative case, but when Greeks spoke directly to him they would have said "Iesou," much more recognizable as the nearest Greek approximation of the Hebrew pronunciation of Yeshua. "

Except Jesus is not once referred to as "Yeshua" throughout the New Testament.

"Paul is the father of anti-Judaism. He decisively broke Christianity from any connection to Judaism."

I think you are over-stating the case somewhat. Paul would have considered himself a Jew. Moreover Christianity as we know it took a few centuries to develop. Many of the early converts were Jewish and maintained Jewish practices such as observing Kosher dietary laws and circumcision.

That particular passage, by the way, is contentious, with some scholars doubting its authenticity - did Paul write it, or was it a later interpolation. I don't have an opinion either way. Regardless, Paul was a Jew.

"Except Jesus is not once referred to as "Yeshua" throughout the New Testament."

That's because Yeshua is a Hebrew name, and the New Testament is in Greek. Hello.

"You suffered from your countrymen the same things those churches suffered from the Jews, who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out."

The term "the Jews" is often used to refer to the Jewish leadership, rather than the people. Even Jews use it that way.

Here's a link to an article that analyzes the historian Josephus' statements on the Hebrew canon: http://blogs.blueletterbible.org/blb/2012/05/29/josephus-historical-evidence-of-the-old-testament-canon/
Notice that it has not changed to this day, except for a couple of books that used to be bound together. At one time the Psalms were bound as five books, but hey--an apple is an apple no matter how many slices you cut it into, as long as you eat it all.

Luke 17:20-21: 20 One day the Pharisees asked Jesus, “When will the Kingdom of God come?” Jesus replied, “The Kingdom of God can’t be detected by visible signs. 21 You won’t be able to say, ‘Here it is!’ or ‘It’s over there!’ For the Kingdom of God is already among you.” (blueletterbible.org)

Except "Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father."

One would think that if "Yeshua" was the highest name, then Yeshua would have been used here, instead of its supposed transliteration.

"Many of the early converts were Jewish and maintained Jewish practices such as observing Kosher dietary laws and circumcision. "

Practices which Paul, the so-called "Jew", minced no words in condemning.

"The term "the Jews" is often used to refer to the Jewish leadership, rather than the people. Even Jews use it that way."

There is no evidence of that whatsoever. It's clear that the Gospel of John, your favorite gospel, is an outlier when it comes to continuously referring to 'the Jews' and depicts 'the Jews' in mass, not priests, as having demanded Jesus's death.

Putin, a name represents all that the person is, not a magic set of sounds. Here's a link and some info on some of his names and titles in the Bible:
http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/names-of-jesus.htm
"Names of Jesus - The Significance
What's in a name? Do the titles and names of Jesus hold a significance? In the days when the Bible was being written, the Israelites often chose names for their babies based on the child's character or appearance, i.e. Esau (hairy) and Korah (bald). Some babies were named because of an incident at their birth or their names were based on some hope or prayer of the parent, as in Zechariah's name (God has remembered). Sometimes babies received the name of an everyday object, like Tamar (palm tree), and Tabitha (gazelle). Parents often named their children by the time of day they were born. For example: Shaharaim (dawn), Hodesh (new moon). The condition of the mother also frequently inspired a name: Leah (exhausted) and Mahli (sick).

Jesus was named prophetically. Matthew 1:20-23 says, "But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, 'Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.' All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 'The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel' - which means, 'God with us.'"

Names of Jesus - The List
Why are there so many different names of Jesus? The names serve as a description of who Jesus is and how He works in the lives of individuals. Some scholars have located over 700 titles and different names for Jesus in the Bible. Let's study a few of them here.

God - Jesus is called God in several passages in the Bible. Along with His sinless life, miracles, and resurrection from the dead, His claims to be God stand firm (John 20:28).

Lord - In the New Testament, this term is used as a salutation to honor a man of distinction. The disciples used this term to salute Jesus as their teacher and master (Matthew 22:43-44).

Word - This title was used by the apostle John to describe the mission of Jesus. The title states Jesus' Godhead and eternal and absolute deity (John 1:1, 14).

Messiah - The long awaited "anointed one" who would deliver Israel. Jesus came to deliver mankind from sin and death (John 4:25-26).

Alpha and Omega - These two characters were the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet. This descriptive title expresses the eternal nature of God - the beginning and the end (Revelation 1:8; 22:13).

Savior - Jesus is the person who rescues mankind from an eternity in hell.

Redeemer - "One who frees or delivers another from difficulty, danger, or bondage, usually by the payment of a ransom price." In the New Testament, Jesus is viewed as the ultimate Redeemer who gave His life as a ransom (Mark 10:45, Titus 2:14).

Light of the World - Jesus is the Person who brings true knowledge of God. Those who reject this light bring judgment upon themselves (John 8:12; 3:19-21).

Lamb of God - This title refers to the Old Testament sacrificial system where God accepted the blood of animals as atonement for sin (John 1:29, 36). Jesus' blood made atonement for sin!

Ruler of Creation - Christ existed before the creation of the world and He is sovereign over it (Revelation 3:14).

Mediator - Because Jesus is fully God, He can represent God to man. Because He is fully man, Jesus can represent man to God. Reconciliation is possible (1 Timothy 2:5).

Bread of Life - Jesus is the one and only supplier of true spiritual nourishment (John 6:35). Way, Truth, and Life - Jesus is the only way to heaven, the only source of truth, and the foundation of all life (John 14:6)!

Names of Jesus - Personal Meaning
What do the names of Jesus mean to you? Do they have personal significance? Is Jesus your Savior, your Mediator, your Redeemer? If not, we encourage you to learn more about Him and accept the gift of salvation He has offered to you.

If Jesus is your Savior, are you overcome with thankfulness for what God has done for you? Take a moment and praise Him using His various names. "Jesus, You are the Way, the Truth, and the Life. You are my Life, for without You my life would be worth nothing. You are my Savior and my King, the Lamb of God who atoned for my sin. You are the Alpha and Omega and You control the beginning and end of each circumstance in my life. You are the Bread of Life and I can feast on Your spiritual nourishment to keep me in perfect peace. You are my Lord and my God. In Your holy name, amen."

Did Paul condemn Kosher? I thought he just said it was okay for gentiles not to follow Kosher. Which passages does he condemn Kosher and circumcision?

He does condemn those Christians who tried to reimpose the Jewish dietary restrictions because Jesus fulfilled the Law and Christians were no longer subject to it.

2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.

The entire Galatians epistle is an attack on Mosaic law.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/maps/primary/galatians.html