@myself, I don't want to deny the cruelties didn't happen, I meant: the cruelties were expected, as well as (to a large extent) the rest of the German moves in the east and Balkans.

@HerrBayerischKaiser
okay, maybe a bit less translator next time, you started pretty good, but later on your grammar got a bit worse. btw, did you mean you learned dietsch? It's been like 10 years since I last heard a person referring to Dutch by that name. But I assume you mean the non-melodious High German, an okay version of the language, though having too much rules prevents easy learning.

@Carpenter: Is deitsch another word for Dutch? Because deitsch in the bayrisch word for deutsch.

"The Soviet army didn't even liberate Slovakia until the 'closing months of the war', so your timeline is suspicious."

The 4th Ukrainian front reached Eastern Slovakia in September/October of 1944.

"Unless they were in Tiso's army which was part of the invading force of the Axis in Barbarossa, which I wouldn't find surprising."

The three older brothers (out of 5 total) in the family were indeed in Tiso's army, and all died on the Eastern Front between '41 and '44.

Are you seriously accusing Tolstoy of making the rape of his grandma's cousin up, Putin33? New low, dude.

It certainly is refreshing in the last couple of threads to see a lot of people calling Putin33 out on his bullshit microwaved Marxism. Thank goodness people like him stopped being believed in the 50s and stopped being in power in the 80s.

"Are you seriously accusing Tolstoy of making the rape of his grandma's cousin up, Putin33? New low, dude."

Really. Putin, do I need to call up my 84 year old grandmother and pester her about which part of Slovakia her family was from to avoid being called a liar in an internet debate? I know she grew up in a Slovak neighborhood in Illinois (I assume in Chicago or thereabouts) and her family was mocked by the neighbor children for having a hillbilly accent in Slovak, so it's probably safe to say her clan wasn't from Bratislava or thereabouts (which was indeed "liberated" by the communists in the last few weeks of the war, while the eastern parts of the country (where I imagine 'hillbilly accents' were common) were liberated up to six months earlier).

"Are you seriously accusing Tolstoy of making the rape of his grandma's cousin up, Putin33? New low, dude."

I never said anything about the rape, "dude". You don't even bother to read these days before shooting off your mouth. I said the Soviets only liberated Slovakia in the last months of the war, which is a fact which Tolstoy doesn't even disagree with. Go to hell.

"Thank goodness people like him stopped being believed in the 50s and stopped being in power in the 80s."

Right, that Nepali revolution never happened, and there aren't longrunning Marxist-Leninist rebellions in numerous countries like the Philippines, India, and Colombia. Not to mention the very existence of the world's largest and fastest growing economy and the island nation of Cuba, which has survived 50 years of Invictus-style terrorism. Good look there, chief. Maybe you can go wish death about another elected leader who doesn't get along with the rich or gloat over the murder of a head of state, tough guy.

Anybody can add these personal anecdotes to act as shields for a view that isn't backed up by evidence, like for example the Bavarian monarchist's episode in Israel. The story starts to stink when you consider the fact that an 84 year old would have to be 17-18 during the final year of the war, and yet her two *younger* brothers were supposed compressed into fighting for the Soviets even though by 1944-45 the Soviets had a truly enormous army and had no problems with getting actually loyal and ideologically committed manpower. Not to mention the fact that the Soviets didn't have anyone younger than 18 in the army.

"the very existence of the world's largest and fastest growing economy"

False and false. I believe India is growing faster now, and it is not the largest yet. It was once the fastest and eventually will be the largest, but not yet. But in empirical terms it makes sense that the largest country in the world would have the largest economy.

Sorry should have said largest country (population) and fastest growing economy over the past 20 years.

Sorry to nitpick over the details, but I jump at econ stuff haha

Actually Ghana is the world's fastest growing economy ;) India is still below China.

"Anybody can add these personal anecdotes to act as shields for a view that isn't backed up by evidence...The story starts to stink when you consider the fact that an 84 year old would have to be 17-18 during the final year of the war..."

These were my grandmother's COUSINS - NOT my grandmother, you fucking dipshit. Before you go spouting off about Invictus' reading comprehension, you may want to check your own.

And instead of complaining about anecdotes, why don't you come up with some nice accurate statistical evidence for us from the Soviet Bureau for War Rape instead, so we can determine the statistical likelihood of my grandmother's cousin being gang-raped by the Soyuz and go from there.

Oh yeah. They didn't keep those kinds of numbers. Never mind!

"My grandmother's cousin in Slovakia was in fact gang-raped by Soviet soldiers. Her two younger brothers were kidnapped and forced to serve in the Soviet army."

*Her* is an unclear antecedent, and I read that to mean your grandmother, not her cousin.

Bullshit.

I already posted a refutation of Beevor's infamous book alleging this serial rape nonsense. Tolstoy's Axis army murdered 1/4 of the Belarussian population, 20% of the population living in German occupied territory, and 60% of Soviet POWs, but you guys can continue searching for that Soviet holocaust you desperately need to in order to absolve the poor Axis from their war guilt. In the face of the exterminationist policies of the Axis, Soviet restraint was remarkable.

Bullshit? You mean it's not an unclear antecedent? Right, "her" is as clear as day.

wow, what a texts...
will read when i have more time...
and SuperSteve, thanks, i ask everybody but almost nobody ever corrects me...

Okay about the whole Dietsch/Deutsch/Dutch/Deitsch thing:
The words have the same origin and have expressions in German and Dutch, all meaning "of the people" (Deutschland means something like "Land of the People")

In the following order: English:German/Dutch/Bayerisch:

Dutch:Niederländisch/Nederlands ("Diets", in old-Dutch, no longer in use)/???

German:Deutsch/Duits/Deitsch

Putin...although it doesn't say "...by Soviet soldiers and her two younger brothers..." im pretty sure the vast majority of the people who have read through this thread understood from what had been stated in the previous sentence that "Her" was in regards to the cousin not the grandmother of Tolstoy.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that in your haste to find an error in what was said that you misread and inferred incorrectly.

damn, whitesammy, having not read this thread, i mistook what you had said to be a genius comment along hte lines of. "most everyone knows that '...by Soviet soldiers and her two younger brothers...' the posters meant, Russian writer from the 19th C, Leo Tolstoy's grandmother.

OH SNAP

old-Dutch is no longer in use :)
it's Dutch but then just the words writed the way someone writed them the first time :) didn't know it was Diets though...
anyway, it doesn't matter, still reading the stuff...

Okay, what Steephie refers to -before everybody starts criticizing him again- when he says "it's" is the text that the Bavarian Emperor posted several pages ago with the Bavarian and Dutch explanation of why he was lucky that the Americans occupied the part of Germany where he's from and not the French or the Russians.
Since he used a translator for that one the Dutch text "was written in the way someone would write them if he were writing in Dutch for the first time". Or something to that effect.

I think it was reasonable to interpret the paragraph to mean that he was simply going down a list of his grandmother's relatives. There's a reason why there are rules against unclear antecedents, I got a B on a history paper for using them.

Your history teacher critiqued your grammar on a paper and held it against you grade-wise?

@Putin: I never referred to any of my grandmothers relatives except her husband (my grandfather), who served as a machinist in the 4th Panzer. He survived the defeat at Stalingrad to pass across the Elbe as surrender to the Americans.

Absolutely. An entire letter grade for minor grammatical points.

Kaiser,

Ich war nicht uber dich sprechen.

"I think it was reasonable to interpret the paragraph to mean that he was simply going down a list of his grandmother's relatives."

Were you referring to me, you used unclear antecedents.