against using reclaimed water on the mountain.
agaisnt there being any commercial enterprise on the peaks at all.

skiing is great, just not on those mountains.




also doo-wop is amazing

Well, I'll tell you this: that's unrealistic. I can see having them not use reclaimed water. That's a legitimate argument even if it's kinda silly and irrelevant. But not wanting any development of the mountain is absurd. I've never been, but it must be a good place for skiing and snowboarding if there's enough demand to extend the season with artificial snow. Do you want to blow up Mount Rushmore because the Black Hills are "sacred"?

yeah kinda

stick some c-4 up washingtons nose...

To the victor go the spoils.

There you go again. You don't really care about the Indian's land, you just want another radical cause to work against the Man.

It's more sad than anything that you can't just be happy and not put your finger into every issue you come across that differs with your worldview. It's not just reclaimed artificial snow, it's 9/11 Conspiracies, it's some kind of phantom martial law plan, it's police hatred, it's anti-Christianity, it's anti-Americanism, anti-Capitalism (communism), it's demeaning honest work for honest pay, it's an assault on everything normal, well socialized people hold dear.

I'd like to see you in thirty years or so, when you've realized that the government isn't out to get you and radical restructuring of society just doesn't work. I promise not to say I told you so. Really, I do. You'll feel foolish enough.

you're very mistaken.
just because the government or popular opinion support something that doesnt mean I'm against it, thats the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

I do care about the native's land, you cant say any different you cant see inside my head.

phantom martial law plan??
how is that in doubt????
If you dont think it will be implemented I can see that, thats your opinion. but there is a plan for it, I've showed you document after document proving it.

I'm not anti christian. specifically.
I'm an atheist, so I think all religions are very silly.

anti-american?
I love the constitution so much I could fuck it and marry it

being anti-capitalist does not make you a communist.
do you have a mental handicap? not only is that obviously false, I"ve told you several times that it is, and why.
I am anti-communist as well.

honest work is something I do quite a bit.
fucking backbreaking manual labor.
I'll bet I work harder than you.

"I'm not anti christian. specifically.
I'm an atheist, so I think all religions are very silly."
=============================================
Reminds me of a WC Fields quote: "I don't have prejudice,I hate everyone equally."

Sicarius, I would like to know if the tribe actually owns this land. If not, then the people who do own it can do whatever they want. If the tribe doesnt like whats being done to it they should fight, buy, or protest to reclaim the land. Otherwise, they lost it.

what if some oil baron decided he wanted the Kaaba as a lawn ornament

what if some billionaire decided that the vatican would be better if it was a water park

what if they made Lhasa into a ski resort?

I think the people of Lhasa would love the boost a ski resort would give to their economy.

Your other two points are beyond absurd. You're not even clutching at straws there, you're holding onto them as you're sinking.

The genius of our modern capitalistic society is that it has been organically and naturally adapted to people over the years such that the number one event that disrupts normal, good peoples lives (revolution) does not occur. This is one of the few instances in which I feel that the system in the USA is superior to all others.

Sicarius and others who work to foment revolution are working against the wishes of the vast, mostly silent majority. The work for themselves and their small elite's highly particular and selfish goals.

I agree Jerkface. Successful social systems usually develop organically. Attempts to conceive and then implement an entirely new system via revolution usually end in disaster due to the law of unintended consequences. Take Cambodia and the Khmer Rouge as an extreme example. For all our present capitalist system's flaws it is more successful than it is unsuccessful - in that most of us live pretty decent lives in comparison to most of our ancestors. This is not to say that system should not be criticized or that improvements can't be made, or even that at a time in that the future won't be radically different. But personally I favour evolution not revolution.

I'll add another point. I think Sicarius's opening post is self-righteous and puritanical in tone. I am sure he doesn't like being judged for his chosen lifestyle so why judge others? My girlfriend like reading trash magazines about celebrities for purely light entertainment purposes. But this doesn't mean that her life is shallow and pointless. I don't really see the entertainment value myself but each to their own.

On the subject of using reclaimed water for the snowmaking. I assume the reclaimed water has been treated - no? We use reclaimed water on the some of our ski fields in Australia and it doesn't cause any problems. It is not like the mountain is covered in faeces. It is can be good water management to use reclaimed water. In some cities of the world, like Singapore, for example, people drink reclaimed water, and there is nothing wrong with it.

Sicarius - do you drink or smoke or anything? Do you hang out at any of the cool bars in Flag? If so, do you despise the people you meet there - people who you would probably assume are like me? Yuppies who are there to ski/board and then enjoy the night life of one of Arizona coolest towns?

Also Sicarius, If that billionaire somehow gained the right to own the Vatican he could do whatever he wanted with it. Whether you think it is right or wrong is your opinion. Your argument seems to suggest that this water is tainted with fecal matter, which is true of most water. I assume this water has been treated, and it is being used to create artificial snow. The establishment implementing these activities must have existed before they started using this water.

Think about it this way, if the water were so contaminated would anyone want to come to the business? I personally wouldnt want to ski on a mountain drenched in shit, and I suspect others would not as well. Its not profitable to do so.

Do these people also object to pouring a glass of water on the mountain? Because that would be the same thing. You're making an argument out of nothing. It's treated water, it's a business, and it's the business mountain. If I dont own something I dont have much say in how it gets used. Of all the social injustices that actually occur, this one reads pretty low on the meter in my opinion.

Sicarius - A thought experiment:
IF a) The land where the lincoln memorial stands is a holy-place in my religion;
AND b) I find depictions of the human form offensive to my religion;
THEN c) would you stand alongside me protesting about the statue's continuing presence?

I suspect not, and the reason why is as follows:
- Religious belief (or tribal heritage or whatever) is often one of the values that people hold dear
- Different people have different belief systems, and there's no independent measure by which to compare these different systems
- Different belief systems often conflict (e.g. valoishapsburg's belief that the lawful owner of a piece of land can do whatever they want with it, conflicts with the native americans belief that there should not be skiing on these particular mountains).

So what is it that makes you support the native american's argument in this case, but probably not support me vs. the lincoln memorial?

Not sure if you're aware of the case of the Babri Masjid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babri_Mosque) which is a good example of where religious views are in conflict, and where blind acceptance of one or the other is simply not appropriate to the complex situation.

What would you do in this case?

Hi everybody!