and i could break out into my hebrew to tell you you're an idiot :P

"i meant that obi could have let putin respond to your question about his username, whereas instead he responded, with a lot of irrelevant information, just to make a point."

Because I still think it's a valid point--I'm sorry, but I have a hard time taking someone's pro-peace, anti-authoritarian arguments seriously when THAT is their name and THOSE are the people they defend.

And for as often as others introduce me to newcomers poorly, and for as long as Putin and I have been arguing, I suppose I'm just the teeniest bit bitter about that.

you think an ad-hominem attack is relevant?

SD - you're the devil in disguise, oh yes you are.
If Barmitzvah was alive today, whose side would he be on?

And I'm not an idiot, Socrates, just a schnook. :p

Speak of the devil, there was a siren now so we had to run to the shelters.
This is the reality of the matter: missiles on both sides. Those who portray this as a David vs Goliath are oversimplifying the matter.

I have to go now, if anyone has more questions I will come back in a few hours.

nigee - any jewish world conspiracy needs jews on both sides to keep it from being obvious

obi - aha, fair enough :)

Obi when will enough be enough for you, what body count of 'Hamas members' would you like to see dead before the ethnic cleansing stops, have you noticed some of those members are getting younger and younger !!

"you think an ad-hominem attack is relevant?"

I think taking someone's statements in the context of their broader sociopolitical views and allegiances is relevant, in the same way I'd argue that knowing what, say, Kipling's views on imperialism and different groups is relevant when you read his works, as literature is its own form of argumentation, in a way.

So when Putin styles himself as a pro-peace person, and Israel as a one-dimensional anti-peace state, I bring those points up, because I have to question the credibility of someone who views Israel as anti-peace but those aforementioned figures as consistent with a pro-peace position and set of beliefs.

"Speak of the devil, there was a siren now so we had to run to the shelters.
This is the reality of the matter: missiles on both sides. Those who portray this as a David vs Goliath are oversimplifying the matter.

I have to go now, if anyone has more questions I will come back in a few hours."

Hope everything turns out OK, and I once again agree with you, especially your David and Goliath reference (the irony of that reference notwithstanding, lol.)

the comparison is specious, at best, and if you really think it was a good relevant point then you're less intelligent than i thought. There is nothing wrong with admitting it was an irrelevant point, but you couldn't stop yourself making it because you dislike/are bitter towards putin.

I do deny that it's an irrelevant point, I won't deny that it was a cheap one, however, or a cheap shot.

Because, yeah...probably safe to say that after all this, Putin and I aren't exactly the best of friends, lol.

So, yeah, it is a cheap shot...but if it's fair game to call me out for previous things I've said (as we've done here before) I likewise think previous political figures Putin's advocated should be fair game in a political discussion, especially as the figures I named are noted for violence and cruelty, two charges Putin lobbies against Israel, so I find him somewhat hypocritical on that point as a result.

putin may well be a hypocrite, but you can be better than him.

incidentally israel should do that too, it's not a matter of tu quoque, it is a matter of moral superiority, something israel has not had since 67 really.

As a side note, I sometimes wonder how these conversations would go if we were in person rather than just engaged in typed debate over the Internet, if they'd be more or less civil/nasty.

It's easier to snipe at people when you can't see their face, I guess...though on the other hand, you can get caught up in a heated moment easier in person, I think, whereas you can distance yourself a bit when typing sometimes.

What about 1973? Attacking during Yom Kippur was pretty low on the Arab states' part...

Obi screams Stalin as an alibi for the fact that he can't debate for shit. That's his m.o.

they would be much more pleasant i think. they would also be more interesting. we should all group skype ;)

attacking during yom kippur was tactically very smart, but in terms of moral superiority what i mean is look at 1948, you have outnumbered out gunned jews fighting for their life to a state. by the end of 67 you have an occupied sinai, and more importantly you have the occupation of palestinian territories; a mistake which should not have happened.

"What about 1973? Attacking during Yom Kippur was pretty low on the Arab states' part..."

Really, tell us your synopsis of that war, History-wan. I'm sure you haven't read a single thing except wikipedia about it.

Obi - how many 'Hamas members' dead before you will be happy?

Obi loves death. Has there ever been a war he hasn't supported?

Obi doesn't support wars to overthrow evil dictators and put in a government for the betterment of the people (e.g. revolution in cuba).

"Those who portray this as a David vs Goliath are oversimplifying the matter."

It's true that David and Goliath would be a poor analogy. The might of Israel is ten times more powerful than Goliath. David actually beat Goliath, whereas the Palestinians have no hope of defending themselves unless there is serious outside intervention.

Are there any fair-minded Israelis who are anti-genocide?

Oh don't mention that you think the Cuban revolution is good. Obi will go apeshit even though he can't back up his trashtalking.

Who needs facts and logical arguments when you have years of indoctrination that tell you that you must be right?

"Obi loves death. Has there ever been a war he hasn't supported?"

Well, I was against that little pro-Russian insurgency tearing apart Ukraine...

Who backed that one again?

And the Syrian Civil War, I've expressed my problems with that numerous times now, and Assad's gassing his own people...again, remind me, who supported Assad there?

"Obi doesn't support wars to overthrow evil dictators and put in a government for the betterment of the people (e.g. revolution in cuba)."

Actually, I don't support wars where I feel the cause, combatants or interest is unjust.

"The might of Israel is ten times more powerful than Goliath. David actually beat Goliath, whereas the Palestinians have no hope of defending themselves unless there is serious outside intervention."

I would then ask, Jamiet--why does Hamas continually keep launching rockets?

There's no way in the world that continuously launching rockets at someone isn't a provocation to war, and yet by your own admission, Hamas can't win this war, in your view. So why fight it at all, losing and losing hundreds of innocent Palestinian lives? Israel has gained squat from this diplomatically, they have nothing to gain...the innocent Palestinians have nothing to gain...

The only one who DOES stand to gain is Hamas via aid and recognition in the Islamic world for "standing up" to the" big bad" of Israel.

"Are there any fair-minded Israelis who are anti-genocide?"

Are there any posts of yours that aren't incredibly loaded and fallible?

"Well, I was against that little pro-Russian insurgency tearing apart Ukraine...

Who backed that one again?

And the Syrian Civil War, I've expressed my problems with that numerous times now, and Assad's gassing his own people...again, remind me, who supported Assad there?"

So examples of your supposed opposition to war include backing the fascist government in Ukraine's assault on the East (by the way Poroshenko said 100s of Russian speakers must die for every Ukrainian soldier killed, what a nice guy) and continuing support for the festering civil unrest in Syria.

Thanks for clarifying.

"Actually, I don't support wars where I feel the cause, combatants or interest is unjust."

Meaning anything that doesn't have the stamp of approval of the West, because unless Obiwan can appeal to popular opinion in the West he won't take up a position. He's that much of a fucking zombie.

"Who needs facts and logical arguments when you have years of indoctrination that tell you that you must be right?"

Talking about me or our favorite indoctrinated, self-proclaimed Marxist here? ;)

"Oh don't mention that you think the Cuban revolution is good. Obi will go apeshit even though he can't back up his trashtalking."

Not really. See, your supporting Castro just adds another member to your rogues gallery of political heroes...and I'm just fine with that, strengthens my case that, if you think I'm one-dimensional in my views, you're just as one-dimensional in yours...

Name me a communist or communist-influenced government you DON'T like, Putin.

Stalin you're OK with...Putin...North Korea...China (we'll count them despite their semi-capitalist tendencies later on)...Assad's party has socialist influences...Castro in Cuba...

Is there a communist government you DON'T like...or are you as indoctrinated as others claim I am on the other end of the spectrum, and just blanketly give a pass to any blood-stained regime so long as it stains that flag Red?