Oh my god krellin........

Okay, some more stuff on bo_sox:
He's pushed krellin pretty hard, even and especially AFTER the roleclaim, and I think the only reason krellin didn't engage bo was because ghug is more vocal. He also seemed inordinately interested in krellin specifying which power role he was claiming to be immediately, rather than waiting for some sort of link to indicate he was lying about the claim. After krellin stated that his claim was a fake, bo made the assumption that krellin's recanting was more truthful than anything else he's done, decided that krellin was a selfish town/human, and then says we should still kill him.

This is an argument I used when I was scum to try and kill PE, and which indicated to others that I was scum trying everything in my power to get PE killed with any argument. It fell apart then, and bo_'s more than slipped his scumminess.

Everything everyone is saying about bo is great, but we should absolutely not drop the hammer on someone this early. I want to see him defend himself more, I want to hear more opinions, and I want to see people make cases for others.

Bo - is that what lizards call out when being skinned alive?

**
ghug - it is doubtful Bo is going to unspin himself on this.

**
I'm not saying that we should examine anyone else - but honestly, there really aren't a lot of other leads unless you want to kill me.

I also hope that it is clear that despite my day 1 actions, I am now in hunting mode, having done my Duty in Day 1 to stir the pot and get some people riled up.

My only other suggestion is that we choose a lurker - maybe an ILN - and kill one of them...might at least get some of the quiet ones talking if they fear their suspicious lurking is being recognized as lizardly.

But I'm pretty comfortable with the blatant anti-town stuff Bo is now documented to have done.

So - ILN? Wanna go after someone else?

I'll follow the lead if *2* other townies make a move to bring fire on someone else.

Also - another point I want to make -- with krellin being more quiet today, the press is damned near ABSENT.

You people need to start talking, you need to start flinging some accusations around and get people defending themselves

You all bitched about my behavior day 1 -- But I generated information. Today....shit...come on. By tomorrow we'll be lucky to get a page of press at this rate.

I think whoever shot Chaqa last night has shown a desire to go after lurkers and will probably kill another one tonight if they don't start talking more. Vig, if you did shoot uclabb last night and have any more divine inspiration, please do that instead, but I think the best way to scare the lurkers into talking is to let it be assumed that they'll be targeted at night.

I'll post some reads sometime before the end of the real night, but I agree with krellin that people should really be talking more in the meantime.

ghug - that is all well and good - but as a town we must also encourage *everyone* to be a participant. A dead mafia lurker tells me nothing about the remaining live lizard....therefore everyone needs to talk

This also is why I think it is good to say fine - We all have a strong Bo vote...now lets vote for someone else -- let's pressure someone else and **FORCE** some dialogue, and see is someone smells worse than Bo.

If nobody does, we go back to Bo.

Oh...btw....

##UNEND -- I only did that to fuck with whiny Bo

If you can make a good case against someone else, and I agree with it, I'd be happy to push it with you. This day has already been far more productive than our silly squabble last night.

ghug - honestly at this point I am in no town position to make an accusation. I have no respect from the town, I am viewed as a loose cannon, a whackjob or a villian...so do you really want me leading a charge?

But as I said - others have had interest in ILN -- SOMEONE take up a charge against someon other than Bo -- we can always come back and lynch Bo if nothing better comes up -- but we can't just stop.

##CALLGM -- Vote count?

@krellin: Same as last page.

krellin, issues aside, you're one of my stronger townreads, and I do think your instincts can be pretty good. I'm not going to discount your opinions because of who you are, and I doubt others will either. If you can convince even a few people of something, they can also convince those who might be less willing to listen, so hit us with whatever you've got.

well ghug, I'm not a guy that is going to read every single thing a person has written and find the one single "contradiction" or misconstrued statement and build a case off it...just not my style. I am more a guy that looks at patterns of behavior -- which is why I fingered Bo for his flip-flopping (noob vs. expert, depending on his particular need at the moment).

The other two vote getters right now are maniac - I got nothing on him - he's played crazy man and been unwilling to put forth a lot of real content AS OPPOSED to what I believe he has done historically (correct me if I"m wrong). So he has a dramatic change in game style, if I'm not mistaken...which could either be because he was bored with his new personna and wanted to try a game as krellin...or he's doing it to hide something, to minimize his importance on the board and not be required to provide any valuable input. Crazy acting can be used for that purpose (amongst other purposes).

(Yes, this indicts me as well Day 1)

Maniac was a crazy man last game too, that's kind of his thing.

Ah...OK then...

So forget maniac for now.

@pj:

"I'm willing to vote Bo Sox. It seems he's most people's favourite choice right now. However if flips town I really hope people will look at Krellin and would beg for a cop scan on him...."

Why vote for the town's favorite? Vote for whomever you think is scum. That was quite a scummy comment in my book.

@everyone: still around 24 hours to go, how about giving bo a small break. I agree he is a very interesting choice for a hanging, but let's not get stuck all day on him. We should try to talk about others too. I still think ILN is being terribly scummy, and I still cannot bring myself to trust ghug after he chose to ignore Squigs defense and went after him so hard. In fact, the main reason the bo lynch is not convincing me is that it was originally led by ghug.

@krellin: that is a poor excuse to avoid making accusations. Go ahead and build your cases against others.

guak, are you going to ignore my points because they're from me? I was a big part of a day one mislynch last game and I was town. If you don't think bo's scum, don't vote for him, but don't let the fact that I think he's scum change anything. Also, how about some thoughts from you? You've been worryingly quiet.

guak, bo_sox literally argued to lynch someone based on an argument that they're human, and NOT scum. In addition to that, he's dug for information about power roles, made the comment about "still" being willing to switch off of Squigs, even though prior to that point he had made no effort whatsoever to present his vote as flexible.

Maniac and ILN I find scummy for different reasons, but we've got a guy who's argued multiple times today to lynch someone who offered a power role claim, even if that claim was later recanted. I don't trust a word krellin says, but his BEHAVIOR speaks volumes about his intentions, and bo completely overlooked that and tried to kill him. If we get to a later point in the game and krellin's humanity is still in question, a scan makes much more sense than a lynch because of that claim, true or not. Added to all of that, bo's got his weird double personality thing going on, and I found his explanation for that less than satisfying.

Even ignoring ghug's interactions with him, bo_stands apart as the scummiest person today. We can absolutely discuss how ILN has been all over the forum but not participating in the lizard hunt, or how Maniac's little "slip" and bodyguard narrative do little but confuse the town. Let alone his "band-aid" comment almost certainly being an unsuccessful doc-save claim.

I wouldn't be crushed by an ILN, Maniac, or a bo_sox lynch, but bo's made himself the most lizard-sounding of them all, even if he does seem to have given up on defending himself. With his actions, I'm not surprised he hasn't been able to come up with much in the way of exonerating evidence.

Interesting, though, how PJ seems willing to vote for bo_sox once he's a favorite, but doesn't actually comment on the case itself.

@bo_sox @ILN Where are you?

Good morning all.

@Krellin – Firstly I don’t see your actions as being overly suspicious. You were aggressive on D1 but that stimulated debate and put pressure on people. You role-claimed with 30-odd minute to go when you were under threat. I don’t see this as massively indicative. A power role has to claim, a non-human has to claim and an ordinary govt employee probably should claim. Why should an ordinary govt employee claim? (a) it can confuse the non-humans and (b) you know you’re vanilla but you don’t know if the other guy you’re up against is human or not. Given that choice, role-claiming to get the other guy killed makes sense. I also noted something you said way in advance of the final moments that gave you another little tick in the human box.

You are obviously quite right that only the reptiles KNOW who is innocent. We have to use educated guesswork. In your case I looked at things you couldn’t directly affect to settle on my belief that you are more probably human than not.

These facts are: - On N1 between us (by accident, design or stupidity) we had given the reptiles something to think about. You had role claimed, but were vague on the role; I had made comments that pointed towards me being the Cop. I think that reptiles had to consider these issues. The first thing they would consider is should they target one of us. I think they thought that the doc would likely save one of us which gave them a 50/50 chance of getting a kill. As they need to kill they targeted someone else (Chaqa or Semck). Their other choice is who to roleblock. Why roleblock me if they thought I’d scan Chaqa or you (I had been convinced Chaqa was reptile and had said you should be 100% shot). Roleblocking you makes more sense from Reptile POV. You could’ve had a kill role, or be the Cop. Only you have claimed a roleblock and no one else has counter-claimed. I think you can only claim a roleblock here if you actually were. If anyone else was roleblocked and they counter-claimed, then you will look scummy. As we know the SK’s shot got through which means you can’t be the SK and, as the reptiles wouldn’t roleblock one of their own, you must be human.

I’m aware that either Chaqa or Semck could have been roleblocked and not be in a position to claim and that someone may have been roleblocked and are keeping quiet (for good reasons). But the fact you roleclaimed early points to confidence that you wouldn’t be counter-claimed. I have considered that you could be reptilian and the reptiles held their role-block to allow you to roleblock claim. But with the Vig likely to shoot 1st night, the SK still on the loose and the Cop to try and intercept, I think dropping their roleblock shield was unlikely.

On balance, I think it more likely than not that you are Human. If you are not-human, then you have played a great game and I tip my hat.

Why is it important that I clear people in my mind? A few reasons. (i) I don’t necessarily want reptiles to know who my non-human reads are – they may still foolishly think I’m the Cop and waste their roleblock on me if my non-human reads tie up with their membership list. (ii) If I die I want people to know what I thought of you so they can go on and form a Govt voting block (iii) If voting is close, I can switch to who you are voting for, even if you are wrong, I know your intentions are good. (iv) I was hoping that by clearing you, you would stop whining in my ear – I feel like I’m sat on an aeroplane wing when you’re playing this game :)

My case against Y2:

I made a case earlier for Y2 being human based on the fact that Uclabb was trying to attract votes on to him in the last half hour of D1. I’ve re-looked at that evidence. The people Uclabb are encouraging onto Y2 aren’t online/active when Uclabb appeals to them. Convenient eh? Krellin votes 30 mins before deadline, tells us we all suck and then disappears. Popping up later to say he’s been to the Gym. And Semck’s last post before the deadline was an hour before the deadline and said “Take care, don't let there be a tie.” Indicating he wouldn’t be around.

Uclabb, very cleverly voted for Y2 and encouraged people who weren’t there to also switch to Y2. If Y2 had of died later Uclabb would be able to say he tried to get him killed earlier, and now as Uclabb has died it gives Y2 some cover.

If the reptiles still foolishly think I’m the Cop then they probably have to try and get me shot in the day as the doc might try and protect me at night. Who is leading a case against me? Y2.

I had thought about keeping quiet about who my #1 reptile read is. But I think it’s better to inform the team about my thoughts.

##Vote Y2

@warden - I'm aware that my comment has confused the govt. On the plus side it has probably confused the reptiles a little too. On balance my comment hasn't been a disaster if it has got the reptiles scratching their heads. We will see when their thread is unlocked after the game.

Ghug has gone up in my estimation by the way.

@WD - which night post of mine are you concerned about?

My Case against PJ
I don’t have one. I’ve re-read his posts a few times. It didn’t take long. He has a little spat with Krellin on day1 (Who didn’t), he voted for Krellin and didn’t shift after Krellin’s roleclaim (think he was in bed – final vote is midnight UK time); Would a reptile have stayed up to be sure to protect their guy if they were in trouble? Maybe. He seems to agree with people rather than having original thoughts, but perhaps he just doesn’t have original thoughts. In summary he seems Null – is he slipping under our radar?

My Case against WardenDresden.

WD has made a great case against Bo which everyone seems to have accepted. The essence of WD’s case is that Bo is voting for Krellin for being a dangerous Townie and you should never vote for a town unless you’re a lizard. WD wouldn’t do something like that – would he?

With 30 odd minutes to go on D1 WD says this “Well, I'm not sure about krellin, and I'm not sure about Squigs. Krellin seems to be claiming to be a town power role, and Squiggs acted to me like he's a power role. If I give krellin the benefit of believing a power claim, then I'm forced to vote Squigs to help protect him for the simple expedient that Squigs hasn't claimed, and he's under fire, while krellin has. If that's to be believed, then ##VOTE Squigs.

So WD is actually voting for someone he thinks could have a power role to protect someone who says he has a power role. Fair enough.

But a few minutes from the end WD gets the opportunity to vote for Y2 instead. If he thought Squigs was a power role and he believed Krellin’s power claim – why not switch to Y2 (whom I read as scum)?
Here is WD’s reasoning “I could buy y2k, I could buy Squigs, I can't buy an ILN kill today. I'd consider jumping on this new y2k thing, but his tiny post doesn't jive with me, as any mafia man would at least try to excuse it better, wouldn't he? In the end, I really have to stick with Squigs for the day.”

I think WD was the go ahead vote for getting Squigs, killed even though he thought at the time he held a power role. There is no behaviour more reptilian.
I’m good with either voting Y2 or WD off – let me know what you guys think.

I also think WD was trying to force Squigs to roleclaim, more scummy behaviour