@Ghug and Maniac - Yes I was asking if Maniac was making a role claim. As I said in my statement I did debate with myself if it was worth bringing up but as I was pretty confident everyone else would spot it as well it seemed pointless to ignore it.

Thinking out laud about N1 kills. (Ignoring WIFOM for now)
Only Vig or SK could’ve killed Uclabb. Trying to isolate out who killed him is pointless, if we knew it was say Ghug, then we still can’t act on it as he could be killing him as vig or as SK.
Reptiles killed either Chaqa or Semck. But why?
CHAQA - I was the biggest (sole) critique of Chaqa and he certainly thought I was non-human. He’s wrong, but that’s clearly what he thought. If I were non-human, I would’ve thought about killing him. Would the reptiles kill him to make govt think I was a reptile and provoke a mislynch tody? Possibly. If reptiles had a crazy notion that I was the Cop then killing my #1 reptile read so I couldn’t scan him for info makes sense, particularly if they thought they had to roleblock someone else (Krellin).
Why would the Vig or SK kill Chaqa? I thought Chaqa was non-human, but that didn’t seem to have a lot of support. Chaqa wasn’t the lurkiest of lurkers, but he didn’t contribute much. I don’t think he would have been in many people’s sights if they were Vig. The SK can kill at random, although prior to N1 it prob seemed non-humans were on top (they prob still are) so would SK try for a more likely non-human?
SEMCK – his top scum reads were
Chaqa
ghug
ILN (slight)
krellin
uclabb
Perhaps Uclabb and one from Krellin, ghug and ILN thought taking him out was a good move. I’m not sure. As our only confirmed scum is Uclabb and he is 5th on list, I don’t think too much weight can be attached to this.
Semck did want to look closely at lynching Krellin today. If we think Krellin is non-human, then Semck death makes some sense.
Can anyone post thoughts on why Semck would be a Vig or SK target?
On balance I think Reptiles shot Chaqa thinking I was Cop and would scan him. Framing me for his demise will be their next play. If true then I think they role-blocked Krellin, which makes him Human (that’s a sentence I thought I’d never type).

Thoughts? Feel free to put up the usual WIFOM response, but a little more would be nice.

Also - I read Bo as being my number 1 human read. I can't go into detail right now, but I'm almost at the point of clearing him.

Just to re-iterate in case our power roles are held by new players. Do not disclose who you are unless you are likely to be lynched. Leave that very late in the day.

Look forward to hearing the detail on Bo Sox Maniac as I really see him as scummy at the moment. I think his interactions with Uclabb are suspicious and I do agree with Ghug's analysis on him.

@Maniac: I really do not understand were you are trying to lead with that train of thought. You have just made a really big post made of complete fluff. I do not get it. You say it makes no sense that the mafia targeted Chaqa, but at the end you say that mafia targeted Chaqa to waste a cop scan? Quite farfecthed. Moreover, your logic sounds way off regarding vig/sk motivation to kill Chaqa. I think Chaqa was among the top suspects list for mostly everyone and that due to his crazy interactions most of us were sort of reluctant to lynch him as his death would yield little to no information. In my mind that makes him an ideal target for vig/sk. Why do you say it is unlikely he was targeted by vig/sk? I did not understand that. Your bodyguard play was a poorly crafted move, and are you trying to say the doc visited you with your band aid post? Also, I would prefer that you make an effort to scum hunt and allow bosox to defend himself rather than try and buddy up to him by defending him, which makes you look bad. You can add your input after he has defended himself, but it is more important to scumhunt at the moment. Let the cop do his job and clear townies for now.

@ghug: that was a pretty solid case on bosox. He was already rising in my suspicion list, and I think you have almost convinced me. The part that I don't like is that after the Squigs wagon I am not sure I should be trusting you. I will try and build my own case on bosox to see what is going on.

@WD: I agree with you, and I am glad you are challenging me. Feel free to build a case against me and ask any questions you may have. That is precisely what us townies need to do, challenge everyone without fearing death. Precisely for that I am reading you as town, it seems like you do not care what others think about you.

@pj: You make a good point about krellin, but I would not want to waste Day 2 discussing him too much. I have also felt his play has been extremely similar to M2. I also agree that his fakeclaim if he is indeed town was something that should never ever be done. Us townies don't care if we die and if we are about to be lynched we go the way Squigs did. Perhaps he is a good vig target for Night 2? Or maybe the mutant can do us a favor and get rid of him.

@ILN: could you please post your reads on everyone so far. Thank you.

@WD … no, not right now, because I don't think the town can afford another mistake. Everything needs to be out there.

@ghug … I'm going to explain clearly, and if this doesn't make sense to you, then I'm not sure what will. Maniac's "statements" regarding a power role were very simple to me - either he slipped, or he suspected that krellin was fake claiming. If Maniac suspected krellin was fake claiming, *we need to know*. We were all thinking it - if krellin was playing a power role, he was no good at it. I wanted Maniac to lend some support to a gut feeling, and had you pushed for it as you should have been along with everyone else, krellin wouldn't be getting away with this crazy scheme of his by admitting it was a move to save his ass before we could mount the case.

You reference comments on page 6 - do you realize that, at the time of these reads, we weren't even hunting at all? We were tossing around accusations but there was no real scum hunting going on, not from anyone. We had yet to resolve whether or not we were even going to lynch anyone on day one. Please don't act like uclabb and I were the only one that wasn't going for "alignment indicative comments."

On Squigs? Oh, the irony! I didn't think you were the type to try to play off your error as someone else's fault, but really, I'm trying to distance myself from Squigs by taking the vote off when the case was falling apart? Ha. I made the good decision between the two of us. I waited until I was sure there wouldn't be a tie because we needed something, but the fact of the matter is that I tried to keep Squigs alive because he proved to me within an hour of his death that he was town. That's why I switched off. Unfortunately for you, Squigs died anyway, and you're not going to get away with pinning that on someone else - you led that BW, and now you're trying to separate *yourself* from it by trying to pin the blame elsewhere. Nice.

Simply put, ghug is using his reputation from previous games to play you all, and he's trying so hard that he's giving himself names - first he was "psychic," now he's "the oracle." It's basic manipulation. He's making a case against me because I've agreed with him on multiple occasions so far this game and he thinks he can use that to deflect attention away from his own mistakes. That's not "psychic"; that's agenda-driven.

My case for Y2 being non-reptilian:

I think we can all agree that day 1 was not very productive. Then came Krellin’s role claim. People are panicking – Uclabb who had been voting for Krellin has to switch. Only he (Uclabb) and his fellow reptiles know who are non-reptilian. We now know Squigs is Human. Uclabb makes a decision to switch his vote to Y2. At that point only Squigs was voting for Y2. Uclabb didn’t want to vote for Squigs – putting a little distance between reptiles and the likely kill is a good strategy. After Uclabb’s switch voting looked like this.

Day 1 Vote Count Update 9.5

krellin (2): pjmansfield99, ILN,
Squigs44 (6): ghug, semck83, bo_sox48, krellin, y2kjbk, WardenDresden
ILN (2):guak, Chaqa
Chaqa(1): Maniac
y2kjbk(2): Squiggs44, uclabb

Not voting (1) captainmeme (set to mod killed/replaced)
Currently SQUIGS44 is set to be lynched!

13 minutes remain.

Note only thirteen minutes to go. If Y2 is reptilian then Uclabb voting for him here is good. But then what does uclabb do?

"Krellin if you want to lynch lurker a so badly this is your chance with y2k"

(If successful that would have made it Squigs 5 v Y2 3)

Chaqa says he will switch to Y2 which would have made it Squigs 5 v Y2 4 (assuming krellin would switch) – risky of Uclabb to expose Y2 to an early lynch.

Uclabb then says…

"Semck it seems to me that you should switch too. You said you didn't even like the case against squiggs"

If Uclabb’s advice to semck and krelling would have succeeded the voting then would have been Squigs 4 v Y2 5 and we would be looking at a dead Y2 and an alive human (squigs)

Just before the deadline Uclabb says. “Tie is not a real risk. Vote for who you want to lynch” Did he backtrack from Y2 a little thinking it could get close? Possibly. Did he target Krellin and Semck’s votes knowing they were offline? (were they offline?)

It seems to me that Uclabb voting Y2 and encouraging others to do so was risky, particularly as others, PJ, IRN and myself could’ve made late switches to save squigs. I wasn’t logged in. Not sure if PJ was, it is late in the UK when final voting happens.

In summary I think Uclabb was content to see Y2 get shot. If so this makes Y2 very likely Human (or SK)

The counterpoint, of course, is that Uclabb was setting up these sequence of events so that someone like me would clear Y2 if Uclabb got killed. It is possible. I think the more likely explanation is that Uclabb didn’t care who got killed between Squig and Y2 as they are both non-reptilian.

Thoughts?

@ Maniac - I agree with the reasoning above. I think it unlikely that Uclabb would have pushed that close and that far on a fellow reptile. With only 13mins to go he really could have got Y2k lynched as there was a lot of movement still going around.

Works for me as evidence that Y2K not scummy, welcome to the town!

My case for Krellin being Human...

Firstly who on N1 thought I was the Cop? Don't answer out loud.

If you had crazy ideas that I was the Cop, or even thought I might have been, then there is a good chance that the Reptilians were also labouring under that false premise. So why didn't I get roleblocked? I think it is for two reasons (a) if they thought I was going to scan Chaqa or Krellin it wouldn't hurt the reptiles too much (particularly if they killed Chaqa). (b) Krellin had been unspecific in his role claim. Were they thinking he was the Cop, Doc or Vig. If so perhaps they should role-block Krellin and ignore me. Krellin certainly says he was role-blocked and no one has countered that claim. I can understand why neither me or Krellin were targeted last night. The reptiles needed a kill - they knew Doc was likely to save one of us. They only had 50/50 chance of killing - they decided to go for someone else. Semck or Chaqa took their bullet. As ever, all this is subject to the WIFOM wave off. Krellin could be reptile, saved his ass, reptiles could hold there roleblock hoping I put a case like this together to clear Krellin. WIFOM is far-fetched IMHO, which means....I think Krellin is Human. If he was role-blocked he can't be Mutant SK as we had 3 kills.

Thoughts?

@Bo - could you explain your comment to Ghug..."Unfortunately for you, Squigs died anyway".

Bo - quick question - are you online right now, and not going anywhere for 10 mins?

@Guak - thax for your thoughts as to why SK or Vig would shoot Chaqa, they are useful. i have already apologized for my bodyguard play. I am scum hunting / town clearing as you can see from my posts about Krellin and Y2.

Off to the movies in a bit. When I get back I'm looking closely at ILN - hopefully he would have posted by then.

##Vote ILN

@Maniac ... ghug accuses me of moving my vote away from Squigs to separate myself from him when I was simply moving my vote off of someone that had convinced me he was a townie. Once Squigs defended himself, which revealed a number of flaws in the case I personally made against him, I backed away from him. I point out that ghug led the Squigs bandwagon early on, and now he's trying to say I "worked hard" to get Squigs lynched even though it was his case. He wouldn't have to try to deflect attention from the Squigs case if Squigs had lived, but since Squigs died, he's trying to pin it on me.

@bo - I get that. But the phase "unfortunately for you, squigs died anyway" implies a scum slip to me. Why isn't squigs's death also unfortunate for you?

@Maniac: from your posts about y2k and krellin I see the exact opposite. I want to see you try and find scum not try and clear townies. Like I said before that is the cop's job. I for one have mentioned that I am not interested in discussing krellin and y2k today, but that is far different from clearing them as town. Your entire arguments are WIFOM as we do not have a clue of what uclabb was thinking, planning or doing. I do agree that in all likelihood your analysis is correct, but it is not helping us catch scum. To me those posts are exactly what scum tries to do, simulate activity while not actually doing anything to help the town. Also, your bodyguard claim and power role 'slip' are scummy as hell and apologizing for them is likely not enough. I am still not convinced you are scum, but am definitely keeping my eye on you and will be reading you carefully on my next reread. I do encourage you to actively hunt for scum and stop posting so much fluff.

Maniac remains my strongest scum read. I'll have to look over bosox more carefully tonight.

ILN I really have no clue about, he needs to post a bit more on his updated reads.

Trying to read this thread at work – so I can’t get a lot of input in right now.

##VOTE maniac.

I recognize the “I’m crazy…don’t worry about me…harmless little fuzzball…don’t’ analyze what I say because I’m the town crazy, blah blah balh”

Except we all know that maniac is a much better player, and this is just a schtick. I’m not buying it.

Bo is my number 2 read. He flips between noob that doesn’t understand and expert analyst like a lizard shedding his skin.

@guak - I think we had this conversation in M3 - finding fellow humans isas important as finding non-humans. Why. Well because whilst fellow humans can be wrong, when they vote I can follow them, if needs be, and form a block which is exactly what non-humans don't want. They want to divide us, if we are united, we can't be divided. Thx for your advice, but I'll continue to analyse everyone, clear some and flag up others, if it's all the same by you.

When I say follow them, I mean when voting is tight. I will always vote for top scum ( unless I'm reaction testing) but if they are not likely to get shot, I will follow lead of others whom I trust.

Mmmm I clear both Y2 and Krellin and they come right out and make me their #1 scum.

If either of you have specific concerns, let me know and I'll up your mind at rest.

Did you not see my analysis of you at the end of page 22? You haven't done anything to change my opinions stated there. I don't see you honestly trying to figure out who is scum.

Maniac - I have no "specific" concerns about anyone at this point, as all ties we have are weak. I am basing it on behavioral patterns, just as everyone is basig their judgement about me on behavioral patterns.

I'd encourage the crowd to take a look at Maniac...let's convict or clear him quickly...and then move on to BO....

@Maniac ... it's unfortunate for ghug because had Squigs lived, he would have gotten a pass for his day one actions. It's unfortunate for the rest of us (minus two I guess) because he was town, but it's especially unfortunate for ghug.

"Mmmm I clear both Y2 and Krellin and they come right out and make me their #1 scum."

That's an odd line. You really think that reading someone town is going to make them like you and keep you around longer?

It's also indicative that he really did somehow miss the read/vote I provided for him in the first few hours of Day 2. I'm not sure how a town-aligned player could come forward with a clear of another townie and completely miss how that townie is presently gunning for him.

@Y2 - Yep I read your analysis of me yelling at you and not making reads. I thought you were joking, sorry.

Firstly, re: Yelling - sometime I yell to encourage people to post more. When they post it contributes to the pool off information we have that can be analysed. Sometime they scum slip. If everyone sat around silent, it ends up a crap shoot. When people post it's still a crap shoot, but we have a little bit more to go on. If my Yelling offends, perhaps you should grow a pair. ##CallGM - can reptiles grow a pair?

Re: my reads - you may not agree with them but i have posted plenty - see pg 5 to start.

When I didn't get roleblocked last night I predicted that the non-humans would try and start a lynch Maniac BW today - go ahead buddy, I'd love to see who joins you.