So you place little value in the forum community? Is that what you are saying abgemacht? There are people who participate in the forum and play very few games. Does that somehow make their choice to visit here stupid? :-)

No, what I'm saying is that this is a site for playing Diplomacy. The Forum is a nice benefit. If it's determined that someone isn't allowed to even play, I don't see why they should be a part of the community.

Seriously, not that I advocate it...but if he really wanted back, he's incapable to creating a new account like a good cheater? And then you would jut have to meet him and learn to appreciate him as a different name, and say to yourself, "Wow, that bob sure reminds me of good old sandgoose. I wonder what happened to that odd duck, anyway...?"

Yeah, but the mods will be especially on the lookout for a return of the sand-filled Christmas goose right now. So it'd be best to get their permission and have it on the up and up. It would show his respect to the site to wait until they agree to allow him to come back than to keep creating new accounts and subsequently getting banned.

Krellin makes a (surprisingly decent and civil) point (while following standard orthography). Could a mod speak to this? What is preventing SandLuna or NKCell from getting a new laptop, a new access point (say, a particular coffee shop), a new email, etc. to circumvent his previous bannings? Would this be a way that he could, theoretically, come back? Granted that he may still ping in from Seattle (or wherever), but surely that wouldn't be unusual for a new player to be from a place a previously banned player is?

inb4 some impressionable youngster like bo creates a wannabe Sandgoose account

inb4 some impressionable oldster also considers doing this on a lark.

There is nothing stopping him, in fact he has attempted to do so several times. It isn't that easy for people to sneak back on the site though. The average life of a rejoining multi is probably a week max. His last 3 attempts each took under 2 days to remove.

I cannot imagine that someone who was careful and determined would get caught. I mean, how long did Sargmacher avoid detection? SandLuna is clearly just not dedicated enough.

Hmmm... Maybe create a bunch of accounts you expect to get caught from the usual locations and then create a single account using a proxy that messes with the requester's IP... Just thinking of ways to try and beat the system. I wouldn't dream of suggesting any of these to Glenn.

For the record, and while the debate rages on, I did not receive a message from SG prior to posting this thread. I just like the debate, nourish myself with conflict if you will. Also, I really find it a fun guy. I'll talk to him at some point in the future when I don't have so many RL things to deal with.

The mods could put an asterisk next to his username (or names) to detail his unexplainable urge to cheat.

^I think that would require some coding work on the site. And that isn't worth doing for just one person.

Your right of course, but it would be hilarious.

What about make him pay US$100 to return, that would tell us how desperate he was to play.

Yeah, $100 for every account he has ever had.

Glenn has a message he would like me to post. I will be posting it later tonight from my home machine for y'all.

I do not think he should be allowed back. He didn't cheat once, he didn't cheat twice, he cheated multiple times, and showed no remorse in doing so. Letting him back would be an insult to everyone who obeys the rules and I am very glad to see the mods are giving short shrift to the notion of giving him yet another underserved chance. May he remain banned forever. Same goes for Sargmacher.

Really interesting topic, with lots of different views from different angles on the same problem. I would not like to have responsibility to decide on this things myself, therefore I see how mods have difficult task on their shoulders and based on that I value their effort greatly.

From all posts on this page my opinion is closest to the one posted by Octavious. I would only add one sentence to it. Recently, I have very little time for myself, so I started to value it more. If I invest some of my free time to play game of diplomacy (and some skill - if I still have any after more than 6 month without any game) it would be really disappointing if in that game I found 1 player cheating and ruining that game for me and others. No one would like to play in a game with one player pushing units for two countries and others only one.

Keep cheaters OUT!

Once banned always banned, otherwise you're just making special treatment for some people. If you all so badly want to play with him, go play him on facebook.

@Gen Lee - You clearly haven't been here very long (July 2012 so not even a year I see). This site often unbans a repentant cheater. Not saying it will happen in this case, but the mods usually give everyone at least one second chance.

From Sandgoose:

Alrighty....hey there everyone....special thanks to draug for posting this for me:

@ Yebellz (the whole post)

Yes, as I have previously explained to the mods the previous stints were my fault, I took responsibility for those, the question here is whether or not the Sandgoose account should have been banned, the answer to that is no, the facts you all present don't add up.

"In the third stint (involving the accounts Sandgoose and NKCell) they were each using an individual account, but were meta-gaming by playing together unfairly."

I had already explained why this is not the case, go look up the Sandgoose account, take a look at the press, take a look at the "tons of games" we were playing together. THIS is the point of contention, the fact that I did not know who nkcell was...look at the forum interactions between NKcell and I, they're legitamate. Keep in mind I was banned while I was on vacation in MEXICO, without access to internet. I'm not distorting facts, I am telling the truth. I got to the top of the GR with Sandgoose not because of my brother. FURTHERMORE, my brother already sent the mods an email saying he doesn't have time for webdip, and that he's never coming back. I have been the only one attempting to join the site *ONE* account at a time to slip under the radar.

@ Octavious

Jesus man that hurts. Not much else to say there except, well, I disagree.

@ Abge
"No, what I'm saying is that this is a site for playing Diplomacy. The Forum is a nice benefit. If it's determined that someone isn't allowed to even play, I don't see why they should be a part of the community."

You realize that all I do now is read the forums as a guest on my work computer right? I still feel like I'm part of the community even though I'm not really IN the community. The fact is webdip is my home, I left play dip because it sucks. I could have joined webdip.es but they don't truly understand the game.

@ Krellin and Dubmdell

"Seriously, not that I advocate it...but if he really wanted back, he's incapable to creating a new account like a good cheater?"

"What is preventing SandLuna or NKCell from getting a new laptop, a new access point (say, a particular coffee shop), a new email, etc. to circumvent his previous bannings?"

You're damn right I can get back. In case you all forgot, I bought a house seperate from my parents, I am getting married in 60 days, and am currently at a new house, with a NEW computer, yet I still haven't tried to join the site again EVEN THOUGH I know I can get away with it...why? Because I want to be able to prove my worth to the mods.


What I think you're all missing is pretty apparent

- this is a game that I no longer see value in cheating to get ahead...it was stupid and childish when I was doing it
- I did not cheat with the Sandgoose account, the evidence is not flawless against me as all press and interaction with NKcell was the same as with any other player.
- I would love to one day play FTF diplomacy but can't do so hiding under a rock, and I do not need to hide under a rock.
- I have asked to come back, sworn oaths of no cheating etc etc.
- I don't mind just writing on the forums, so one day, when the mods feel I am ready to play games, they will allow me the standard 100...keep in mind I am already out of GR rankings...I would be starting over with a clean slate basically.
- I respect everyone here in the forums. Yes I get the game is diplomacy and you may all think I am just here to cheat my way to victory, but I haven't needed that. Yes I've made mistakes in the past, no people don't deserve multiple chances. I'm not saying I deserve it, I'm just asking for it. Regardless of history, I'm asking to start fresh and new with the site. There's only one way to prove your worth and it's another chance.

I don't want angry mods, I get they have lives, I have my own too, I'm just trying to do a little socializing in my boring ass life....this is probably the longest post I've ever made in a forum...hopefully you just MIGHT be able to see it from mutliple perspectives here.

We will post something to clarify the moderator position on this case within the next few days.

@sandgoose: Prove your worth to the mods? I know you can't respond, but assume you're reading all this.

There are hundreds of active users on this site, who the mods don't have to continually monitor for cheating. Some of whom, even contribute money to cover expenses. Your "worth" is them having to pay extra attention to you because of your history. That doesn't sound too appealing to me.

Although I do think a donation would lessen the risk. Then you wouldn't just be risking yet another account name and ip address that you can no longer use, but actual money. You donate under the new name, and if you get caught, that money is wasted because you can't play anymore.

Jmo, that seems entirely unnecessary. Didn't you already have three separate threads discussing this case? Four, counting this one?

I for one would certainly appreciate it.

If I remember correctly, semck, you started one of the threads.

Yeah?