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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Puddle (413 D)
07 Nov 12 UTC
Holy Shit
http://www.ceepur.org/REYDI_NocheDelEvento/index.html#en/default/OPCIONES_NO_TERRITORIALES_ISLA.xml
20 replies
Open
cspieker (18223 D)
07 Nov 12 UTC
EOG: Nagelbett
3 replies
Open
Mapu (362 D)
07 Nov 12 UTC
Presidential Results Thread
They just went out on a limb and projected Georgia for Romney. Post your live results commentary here.
136 replies
Open
cspieker (18223 D)
07 Nov 12 UTC
Convoy/support cut question
check out this map http://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID=100259&turn=14&mapType=large
7 replies
Open
SpeakerToAliens (147 D(S))
07 Nov 12 UTC
The actual result was so different from that predicted by the pollsters.
And yet the closer the media said the election was going to be the more money the candidates spent of advertising. Strange that.
2 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
07 Nov 12 UTC
Why are dogs the most incredible animals on the planet?
Humans excepted of course. I mean how awesome are they, seriously? I love dogs.
5 replies
Open
Jeremiahg (100 D)
07 Nov 12 UTC
DAMN OBAMA
Argg soo pissed he won.
8 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
05 Nov 12 UTC
51 States
I heard on the radio that there will be another non-binding vote in Puerto Rico to determine if they want to become a state. Other than the obvious problem of having a lot of out-dated flags, is there anyone who can tell me what the ramifications will be (for them as well as the current states)?
71 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
07 Nov 12 UTC
A Great Step FORWARD For Tolerance
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/tammy-baldwin-elected-first-openly-gay-senator-043558173--election.html

Well done Mrs. Baldwin, now Senator Baldwin!
4 replies
Open
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
07 Nov 12 UTC
Today I'm mostly laughing at....
The Tea Party, Right-wing bigots, Anti-abortionists, Presidential candidates that don't understand economics and has no clue about foreign policy
2 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
06 Nov 12 UTC
"AMERICA CHOOSES" 2012--NOVEMBER 6TH, ELECTION DAY COVERAGE
Thread for any and all election day news, polls opening and closing, House and Senate races, and, of course, as we get further into the day and into the evening, the states called for Obama and Romney on the Electoral Map.

Stay tuned to WNN, WebDiplomacy's #1 Name in News (among other things.) ;)
69 replies
Open
King Atom (100 D)
06 Nov 12 UTC
*VOTING DAY!*
Get off your sorry butts and go make a difference! Polls don't stay open forever, so don't waste this golden opportunity. It is your Civic Duty to participate in all elections, don't let your country down!

We have one for Romney right here, but what about the rest of you?
23 replies
Open
Gen. Lee (7588 D(B))
06 Nov 12 UTC
Turd Sandwich or Giant Douche?
What's your choice...
8 replies
Open
zultar (4180 DMod(P))
07 Nov 12 UTC
Bartlett 2016
I've started watching the West Wing again, and I would totally vote for Bartlett. Why do I have more faith in Leo and Toby and Josh and CJ than what we got and will get?
3 replies
Open
dubmdell (556 D)
07 Nov 12 UTC
It's an Election Day Miracle
This is why we do this, folks. Miracles like this. A man dies, comes back to life, and his first question is, "Did I vote?"

http://www.businessinsider.com/elderly-man-dies-while-voting-then-is-revived-and-asks-did-i-vote-2012-11
3 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
07 Nov 12 UTC
RETARDS...
The only Undecided.


yeah....if you are "undecided" stilll...you are a retard...and should seriously let a mental degenerate cast your vote for you,,...because you are a fucking RETARD!
7 replies
Open
Sicarius (673 D)
05 Nov 12 UTC
Old Schooler game?
Hvnt been on here much lately and dont have the time for a bunch of games. anyone be interested in a game with all the folks who have been on here forever? If you can remember when pandora used to post then I am prolly talking about you.
9 replies
Open
2ndWhiteLine (2611 D(B))
06 Nov 12 UTC
I'm not voting today
I decided to not vote today. Does this make me a bad person? I also plan on complaining about every little political item for the next four years, so fuck y'all.
68 replies
Open
Stressedlines (1559 D)
02 Nov 12 UTC
LGBT
http://www.therightscoop.com/wa-state-college-allows-transgender-man-to-expose-himself-to-young-girls/

509 replies
Open
Puddle (413 D)
06 Nov 12 UTC
Stock site
The site that lets you buy stocks for whether or not something is going happen, as in stocks for an Obama Victory or Romney victory, it was posted on here before. What is it?
8 replies
Open
Dactylic126 (437 D)
06 Nov 12 UTC
Reporting player?
How do I report a player for potential multi-accounting or collaborating with his friend.. I mean, this is just unfair that there should be a tag team jumping into the game -they're just allies to start out with..
20 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
06 Nov 12 UTC
Input on movie about US elections
Hey Guys,
I've been following the US Presidential elections and I want to know what movie you think would fit this evening (evening in Europe being now). I already watched the American President and Primary Colors (during earlier election periods), what do you recommend?
31 replies
Open
Zmaj (215 D(B))
06 Nov 12 UTC
EoG: Flood of blood
Staying alive can be such a challenge.
3 replies
Open
trip (696 D(B))
05 Nov 12 UTC
Set of Gunboats
All 101pt/36hr/WTA
Variant: No voting (draw/cancel/pause) until stalemate is reached.

Need 2
13 replies
Open
Gen. Lee (7588 D(B))
05 Nov 12 UTC
EOG: Kill your heroes
Not sure who started this gunboat, but it ended up with a pretty nice gunboat "hero" line up - gameID=102512
7 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
31 Oct 12 UTC
Debating game!
Here are the rules:
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redhouse1938 (429 D)
04 Nov 12 UTC
##########
Oops
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
04 Nov 12 UTC
The death penalty should be abolished because:

• It's immoral - if you believe in the common (Christian/Judaic) word of God, it's up to him and only him to decide upon someone's death. If you don't believe in the common word of God, then you may vary, but I don't believe in the common word of God and I believe the death penalty is hugely immoral.
• It's a seriously divisive construct of our judicial system - pretty obvious here.. it's controversial and many states don't use it.
• It's financially irresponsible - the main argument… abolishing the death penalty would save approximately $170,000,000 in a single year (through appeal processes being cut out and incarceration costs, which are much higher than that of life in prison - death penalty is $90,000/year, life in prison w/out parole is approximately $47,000/year). In an economic recession, and knowing this, there is no argument for keeping the death penalty around that isn't on moral ground, of which both major parties have tried to say are not grounds for legal action.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
04 Nov 12 UTC
##########
bo_sox the debate hasn't started yet, you'll have to repeat your comment inside the debate when the tenth and final vote has been cast.
Sbyvl36 (439 D)
04 Nov 12 UTC
I vote yes.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
04 Nov 12 UTC
"Maniac, actually once you cast a vote, we can start this debate :-)"
- You

"I voted yes"
- Maniac

Thus, by your own words, the debate started.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
04 Nov 12 UTC
##########
Alright, the debate starts after Sbyvl's vote. The score is currently 6 x Yes, 4 x No. It would be cool to see that change after 50 posts, see if we can actually influence each other's opinions on the Forum.

The debate automatically ends when there are 85 (!!!) posts in this thread, because this comment is a moderator comment and doesn't count as part of the debate.

@bo_sox, Maniac meant to see that he had actually already voted, something I overlooked. Sbyvl cast the tenth and final pre-vote.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
04 Nov 12 UTC
Sorry if you overlooked it. Don't blame me. I'm not "repealing" any comment Mr. ###########.
Sbyvl36 (439 D)
04 Nov 12 UTC
The death penalty should be abolished for these reasons:
"Cruel and unusual punishment"--8th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution
Life Sentences are longer
There is a chance the convict could walk, even though found guilty and sentenced to death
Thou Shalt Not Kill
redhouse1938 (429 D)
04 Nov 12 UTC
Alright, my bad, we'll include your comment in the debate.

I believe the death penalty should be kept at least as an offer to life sentenced prisoners who don't feel like waiting till the end of days in a prison cell and I'll cite economic reasons for it as bo_sox did, but also humanitarian ones: one may find it more cruel to be locked up for the rest of his life than to be killed.

Also, I believe the death penalty should be given in case of high-treason, as life-in-prison really doesn't cover that. Obviously, in such a situation the burden of proof has to be beyond overwhelming.
Maniac (189 D(B))
04 Nov 12 UTC
In addition the death penalty should not be re-instated (I'm in the UK) because of the chance of mistake and the high cost of killing someone, it is actually cheaper to keep people locked up for life.

Also, I understand that some American states kill people whilst placing them I a state of euphoria. I don't want people convicted of heinous crimes to be happy.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
04 Nov 12 UTC
Red, to clarify, are you citing what I said in support of abolition of the death penalty or keeping it? The death penalty costs much more than life in prison.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
04 Nov 12 UTC
Not if you simply offer it as an alternative to life-in-prison, in which case it would be cheaper.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
04 Nov 12 UTC
I'll also add another statistic to what I said before. Since 1973, death row inmates have had an approximate average exoneration rate of 3.3/year. That doesn't sound like much, but that makes 141 exonerations off of death row in the last three decades. Florida has 23 wrongful convictions, while Illinois follows with 20 (the state I first learned about the issue in), and 12 in Texas. A bit over 1200 have been executed since '73, and within that number, who knows how many innocent are in that group? They don't review those cases.
Draugnar (0 DX)
05 Nov 12 UTC
And with some states having wrongly convicted folks who can't get their appeal heard because of stupid laws that the prosecution and police used to stall so they wouldn't have to admit they fucked up, the death penalty *does* put innocent people to death.
Mintyboy4 (100 D)
05 Nov 12 UTC
I do believe the death penalty should exist, but I believe that it should only be used in extreme scenarios, where there is absolutely no doubt that person is guilty.
For example if somebody commits a massacre, and they get captured in a gun fight and there is no doubt that it was that person who killed everyone. They deserve to die.

However if there is any doubt at all, if a conviction is based on evidence that is possible to be fraudulent, then a life sentance can suffice.

Obviously we don't have a perfect knowledge of what happens at crime scenes and we may not know the full story behind something. So the chance of actually getting to use the death penalty is very small. But I think it should exist as a warning to criminals not to commit a crime more so, rather than an actual tool for killing people.

I don't think religion should play a part in law. I went to a catholic school my entire life from the age of 3-18, and was raised catholic. But I still think there should be a death penalty. Religion and Law should be kept seperate in my opinion.

That is my input to this thread.
Draugnar (0 DX)
05 Nov 12 UTC
@Mintyboy - And what if your hypothetical mass murder is mentally retarded or unstable in some other way that might be treated so he at least is no longer a threat to others?

As far as religion and law, Thou shall not kill. Thou shall not steal. The moment we made laws regarding these two, religion became part of law. And mroe to the point, man founded religion to provide for laws. Before religions and "gods" supposedly looking down on us, mankind was pretty much lawless.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
05 Nov 12 UTC
If you want the law, the Eighth Amendment calls for limitation on "cruel and unusual punishment" if under the classification of homicide and a few other things, and it also touches on mental stability. Hence why Texas was way off their rocker for executing a mentally retarded man.
Draugnar (0 DX)
05 Nov 12 UTC
@bo_sox - There is debate as to whether he was mentally retarded or not. The standard they applied was set by SCOTUS and, because he could tell right from wrong and ran a drug ring (so could obviously handle money and negotiate business deal), he wasn't mentally retarded.

That said, I don't believe we *ever* have the right to take a persons life unless they are in the act of taking another or attempting to (i.e. a time of war or in the commission of a violent and potentially deadly crime at that moment).
redhouse1938 (429 D)
05 Nov 12 UTC
I have trouble being all moral for those who take lives with the blink of an eye. Like Osama bin Laden, I don't see why this guy deserves a fair trial (which he'll use to spew mindless inflammatory anti-American, anti-Israel comments) and a life sentence. Put a bullet in his head and get it over with. The same goes for that Norwegian guy, Breivik. He obviously did it, he should obviously never be let go, it's not justice to leave him in one of the world's most luxurious prison systems after killing 77 innocent people, mostly children, just because "he wanted to make a point." These children's parents should not have to pay the taxes that feed this monster.
Draugnar (0 DX)
05 Nov 12 UTC
You know Osama died in a firefight, right red?

And the moment we cease to keep the moral high ground is the moment we become our own worst enemy.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
05 Nov 12 UTC
Draug, I read that on MSNBC … even I recognize that they are biased a bit. I didn't hear debate but I'm sure there was some.

@red… I agree in a sense, but I also would say that Norway is different than the USA or Britain, and I honestly think that Breivik is going to serve as a serious test subject of whether or not rehabilitation over incarceration ACTUALLY works. I think it does, but this guy is as mentally messed up as it gets and we can all agree on that. 21 years is enough time to change someone's mind, though, no matter how developed it is. I'm really interested in seeing how he ends up afterwards and I hope people keep tabs on him.

Osama bin Laden is not protected under the Eighth Amendment (it was a United States mission, not UN), and he was an international criminal, of which I believe should keep the death penalty on the grounds that terrorists and despotic genocidal crazy people like Hussain are still out there and they deserve nothing less.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
05 Nov 12 UTC
@bo_sox, people who kill 77 people should not be rehabilitated. You disqualified yourself for life if you do something like that. Too threatening to society.
@Draug, yeah, I know. As far as I'm concerned it made the US gain moral high ground.
Draugnar (0 DX)
05 Nov 12 UTC
@bo - I readit on the official SCOTUS blog. That is direct from the supreme court judges.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
05 Nov 12 UTC
Then I'll concede to that one, Draug.

Red, if you want to debate morals, I can, but my best and main argument is the economics of abolishing the death penalty. Think about that, in 2012, when money is hard to find, and I think it's a pretty easy choice. If you're not a radical like me who would love to see the money disappear, then who doesn't want to save billions?
Asiago (100 D)
05 Nov 12 UTC
Argument 1: Its immoral. You site God as the one that delivers justice, and God only who can decide whether or not a person can die. However if you believe the Bible/Torah are books of record as well as Scripture the argument doesn't hold up as people in Biblical times had many offenses for which the punishment was death. The idea thou shalt not kill is commonly taken as thou shalt not murder. Death was a punishment for crimes even under Moses himself. As far as cruel and unusuall punishment goes, the death penalty has been around for murderers heretics, etc. for thousands of years thus negating the unusual part of that statement. With regards to cruel, people who kill in our society cease to be a part of societal norms, cease to even act or think like a normally reasoning person. As such they revert to an animal state of mind where they reason like say a wolverine, which kills for no reason, seemingly for the fun of it. At the point where a human loses their human nature, and reverts to an animal state, the only similarity between them and a normal human being who has morals, and values, is the commonality of their bodies. Thus when a death penalty is imposed on this animal like creature, it is like putting down a man-eating tiger, or bear, or other animal.

Argument 2: Its a divisive Construct/Controversial. This is only a controversial matter if you look at it through the question: "Is it moral to take a persons life even if they have taken others' lives?" If you look at it through the frame work I set up in My first point, the real question is: "Is it moral to allow an animal like creature to have the opportunity to continue taking human life?" Just because you look like a human does not mean you act or reason like one. Its like redhouse said, why should we as moral human beings allow this "monster" to exist? Furthermore let us consider another idea, the idea that a country or society has the right to defend its citizens. For example, if another country were to come into our own and begin killing our citizens, it would be considered an act of war and we would act accordingly to begin defending our citizens resulting in the death of the invaders. If you look at the issue throught this paricular lens, it makes sense to prosecute to the best of our ability in defense of our society, and our citizens.

Argument 3: Its financially irresponsible. While it is true the some of the cost will be negated by abolishing the death penalty, a lot of that number is by definition untrue. Even people with life sentences have the opportunity to appeal, and you forgot to mention the financial burden of added inmates. Furthermore if you take into account the fact that over time Federal prisons could get crowded, and you will either have build more prisons or transfer inmates to state prisons, both of which cost money.

So what is the alternative?

I would suggest the alternative is to keep the death penalty around, but make it harder to use it as a punishment. In this way it is harder to possibly take an innocent life, but there is still a way to convict those found guilty of murder to suffer their due consequence of action. An action that is essentially an act of war.
Draugnar (0 DX)
05 Nov 12 UTC
Murder is not an act of war. Go look it up in your dictionary. War requires some organization and is a dispute that can be resolved. Murder is not.
Asiago (100 D)
05 Nov 12 UTC
So then what is the definition of premeditated, organized mureder? Mureder is itself a dispute that can be resolved as well. The murderer's dispute is with a person, or society or some other cause or being that the murderer doesn't like. Our resolution to murder is either incarceration or death. The parallel is that in both cases, war and murder, one of the possible resolutions is death.
Draugnar (0 DX)
05 Nov 12 UTC
@Asiago - Murder happens. Once it is initiated, there is no negotiation. There can be no cease of hostilities, no retreat beyond some imaginary line on a map.

And why does murder have to be something else? That'slike saying "if a fish isn't a bird, what is it then?" That's just too stupid a question to even try answering. Murder is murder. A single, premediated, nearly instantaneous act that ends the life of another.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
05 Nov 12 UTC
"While it is true the some of the cost will be negated by abolishing the death penalty, a lot of that number is by definition untrue. Even people with life sentences have the opportunity to appeal, and you forgot to mention the financial burden of added inmates. Furthermore if you take into account the fact that over time Federal prisons could get crowded, and you will either have build more prisons or transfer inmates to state prisons, both of which cost money."

I'm sorry, Asiago, did I not include links to my numbers?

Here we go.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty
www.economist.com/node/13279051
http://www.fnsa.org/v1n1/dieter1.html
http://betweenthenumbers.net/2011/06/an-economic-argument-to-end-the-death-penalty/
http://www.aclu.org/capital-punishment/case-against-death-penalty

That's just a few.

The death penalty is a much higher price than life in prison. There isn't an argument there. You say prisons will fill up… will that not happen anyway? THERE'S ONLY A FEW THOUSAND DEATH PENALTY CASES AROUND THE COUNTRY PER YEAR. If you are really worried about prison space that strongly, you should advocate to legalize pot, not worry about the death penalty. You are essentially saying you'd rather kill people than provide a few extra prison cells. I mean, really, that's beyond assholish.
Asiago (100 D)
05 Nov 12 UTC
Take for example the Norwegian mentioned earlier in the debate. He killed 77 people because "he wanted to make a point". You can't tell me that wasn't organized. Further take for example the recent string of murders over drugs in Mexico and the Southwestern U.S., tell those were not organized. Lastly consider ORGANIZED crimed syndacates all over the U.S. that murder on a daily basis. There obviously is a reason they are organized crime. So based on you definition of a war, murder can be considered an act of war. In the case of organized crime we even treat it like war, sending in specialized forces of policemen to contain. As for the definition of war it is as follows from Webster 2 New Riverside University Dictionary: 1. To be in a state of hostility: CONTEND. 2. A condition of active CONTENTION or ANTAGONISM. The definition of murder from the same source: The unlawful killing of one human being by another, especially with premeditated MALICE. It isn't that hard to fit the definitions together.

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71 replies
jcbryan97 (134 D)
29 Oct 12 UTC
Series of Gunboat Games
I would like to start a few gunboat games.

I anticipate them being 36 hour phases, with a gentlemen's agreement to ready-up as soon as possible. 5 point bets. PW protected. Comment below if you'd like to play. Include whether you'd want to play in multiple games.
68 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
04 Nov 12 UTC
Correct Me If I'm Wrong, But...
…I don't think I am.

Wasn't it the Republican party that said that Hurricane Sandy was going to decide the election by stalling Obama's campaign? If that's the case, why are they so reasonably, so honestly switching sides to gain sympathy? I mean, they've never done that before….
41 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
06 Nov 12 UTC
Please Don't Leave Me (again) EOG
7 replies
Open
Fortress Door (1837 D)
06 Nov 12 UTC
Please Don't Leave Me (Again)
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=100394

a full rematch, but Russia CD'ed. Nice try Achillies!
2 replies
Open
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