Besides "Boss."

Bruce Springsteen isn't jewish.

Bruce Springsteen is "The Boss" get with it old-timer!

Bruce Springstein on the other hand...

You ought to discuss the Palestinian Holocaust at the hands of the genocidal isrealis.

Our god is a vengeful god, I see no contradiction even if that was true, and the god was real. Irrelevant.

@ Santa, Your questions are valid: "But if there is actually a big boss man in the sky who cares about love and forgiveness, wouldn't he want to end the killing of innocents in his name? And if he doesn't is he not responsible? How can Jesus let centuries of massacres continue to occur in his name." Christians and Jews alike have wrestled with the first question, and the second one is an extension of it. The answer is that Satan is "the god of this world" because God gave man dominion over this world, and we gave in to Satan, so he is "the god of this world" and "the prince of the power of the air."

Further information on Satan, Jesus, Jews, and Gentiles from Ephesians Chapter 2:
1 Once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins. 2 You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil—the commander of the powers in the unseen world. [fn1] He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God. 3 All of us used to live that way, following the passionate desires and inclinations of our sinful nature. By our very nature we were subject to God’s anger, just like everyone else.
4 But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much, 5 that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God’s grace that you have been saved!) 6 For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus. 7 So God can point to us in all future ages as examples of the incredible wealth of his grace and kindness toward us, as shown in all he has done for us who are united with Christ Jesus.
8 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. 10 For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.
Oneness and Peace in Christ
11 Don’t forget that you Gentiles used to be outsiders. You were called “uncircumcised heathens” by the Jews, who were proud of their circumcision, even though it affected only their bodies and not their hearts. 12 In those days you were living apart from Christ. You were excluded from citizenship among the people of Israel, and you did not know the covenant promises God had made to them. You lived in this world without God and without hope. 13 But now you have been united with Christ Jesus. Once you were far away from God, but now you have been brought near to him through the blood of Christ.
14 For Christ himself has brought peace to us. He united Jews and Gentiles into one people when, in his own body on the cross, he broke down the wall of hostility that separated us. 15 He did this by ending the system of law with its commandments and regulations. He made peace between Jews and Gentiles by creating in himself one new people from the two groups. 16 Together as one body, Christ reconciled both groups to God by means of his death on the cross, and our hostility toward each other was put to death.
17 He brought this Good News of peace to you Gentiles who were far away from him, and peace to the Jews who were near. 18 Now all of us can come to the Father through the same Holy Spirit because of what Christ has done for us.

So my take is that the "Christians" who massacred innocents in Trebitsa or elsewhere were not being led by the spirit of Christ, if they were Christian at all. And don't forget that many people are Christian in name only, through tradition or the politics of their homeland, just as many Jews do not believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and as such are not reflections of the beliefs that are associated with Christianity or Judaism.

Putin, Jesus is not "a god" but claimed to be God himself. His title "Emmanuel" means "God with us" and as we have seen in John, Jesus claims that "when you have seen me, you have seen the father," and "I and the father are one."

One could argue that Christianity has many stupid elements precisely because it had to adapt to the stupid masses. A better, more logical, more humane, more intelligent religion would never have become a world religion because it wouldn't interest the Roman Empire's equivalent of a couch potato.

I find the irony of Christianity becoming a state institution back in those days pretty hilarious.

"The answer is that Satan is "the god of this world" because God gave man dominion over this world, and we gave in to Satan, so he is "the god of this world" and "the prince of the power of the air." "

So the worldly existence of the church, whether that be the formal catholic church or the more informal protestant churches are of this world and therefor the realm of satan. Any worldly vestiges and representations of Christianity therefore can be tarred with the brush of Satan, unless of course someone says "Nah this part is cool," and who is to say that guy isn't doing the work of Satan unknowingly? After all if a Crusader Army willing to die in the name of Jesus can be a representation of Satan than how can any mortal distinguish what in the world belongs to Jesus and what belongs to Satan.

"14 For Christ himself has brought peace to us. He united Jews and Gentiles into one people when, in his own body on the cross, he broke down the wall of hostility that separated us. 15 He did this by ending the system of law with its commandments and regulations. He made peace between Jews and Gentiles by creating in himself one new people from the two groups. 16 Together as one body, Christ reconciled both groups to God by means of his death on the cross, and our hostility toward each other was put to death."

Are you seriously going to stand by that statement?

"So my take is that the "Christians" who massacred innocents in Trebitsa or elsewhere were not being led by the spirit of Christ, if they were Christian at all."

Yet whoever they were being led by, they were doing it in Christ Name, and Christ allowed it. To make things even more interesting, he allowed Christians kill heathens in the name of Christ, so that when the heathens were killed they were ineligible for salvation according to your church. So in one fell swoop Jesus allowed their their temporal existence, which supposedly means little, and their eternal life which is everything. Interesting thing for a forgiving and just deity to do. And they were Christian alright, no need to question that.

"14 For Christ himself has brought peace to us. He united Jews and Gentiles into one people when, in his own body on the cross, he broke down the wall of hostility that separated us. 15 He did this by ending the system of law with its commandments and regulations. He made peace between Jews and Gentiles by creating in himself one new people from the two groups. 16 Together as one body, Christ reconciled both groups to God by means of his death on the cross, and our hostility toward each other was put to death."

Santa asks, "Are you seriously going to stand by that statement?" Yup! It's in the Bible. There are Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians, both reconciled by the death of the Jewish man Yeshua (meaning God's Salvation) on the cross. In fact, Christianity is Jewish.

SantaClausowitz, if you really are Jewish, I think it's bad form to talk about the issues of Christianity. Even the staunchest atheist like Putin grew up in surroundings that made him understand Christianity better than you will ever understand that religion, since you grew up in surroundings pervaded by Judaism. By the same token, you have a stronger ingrained bias against Christianity than even Putin will ever have. Don't you get mad when people criticize Judaism without understanding the first thing about it? Well, it's the same thing.

So, Christians have never been hostile to jews since (and I guess visa versa).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRi8maT6gQA

This is one of the most (probably purposefully) ignorant statements I have ever heard, Perhaps in a sermon meant to convert gentiles to a *then* Jewish-ish sect (Christianity not Jewish by any definition) it might work, but 2000 years later, the hundreds of thousands if not millions of Jews who were killed in Christs name you honestly say that hostility has ceased. How many people are you going to exclude from being christian during this conversation. First its the Greeks mentioned above, i assume next it will be all that have killed Jews in the name of Jesus, are you arguing that no one was really a christian until the killing in the name of christianity slowed in the 20th century?

"SantaClausowitz, if you really are Jewish, I think it's bad form to talk about the issues of Christianity. Even the staunchest atheist like Putin grew up in surroundings that made him understand Christianity better than you will ever understand that religion, since you grew up in surroundings pervaded by Judaism. By the same token, you have a stronger ingrained bias against Christianity than even Putin will ever have. Don't you get mad when people criticize Judaism without understanding the first thing about it? Well, it's the same thing. "

I understand Christianity more than you will ever understand my religion. I grew up in a Christian country which, in my lifetime, has been hijacked by evangelicals who preach their religion to me on TV, over the Radio, on the news, and on the fucking street when I am trying to mind my own business and wait for the light to change. I hand me pamphlets which I read, they come to my door and do a song and dance, and approach me on trains. It pervades literature, culture and the history that I study.

In conclusion It is perfect "form" for me to discuss christianity because you evangelicals demand that I be in the conversation. It is completely different from someone critiquing Judaism because Judaism does not have an evangelical tradition and we do not demand that you enter our conversation, and would rather you not.

The worst thing about Jews is that one of them might be Jesus waiting for an opportune time for second coming.

SantaClausowitz, you're saying that you're bothered by some pretty insignificant aspects of Christianity, like evangelicals in the media or the pamphlets that you read. Your excessive irritation with such petty stuff is surely preventing you from going any deeper into the religion itself.

I'm glad that people approaching me and telling me that I will burn in everlasting hellfire for my beliefs/background (and by extension everyone else I have ever known and loved) is petty to you.

I have gone further into your religion than you have ever gone into mine. Perhaps your attachment to your religion is preventing you from going deeper into Judaism?

Or does it only work one way Zmaj?

SantaClausowitz, I've been approached by religious fanatics and heard their veiled threats, but only children are scared by that. Are you very young by any chance?

I'm sure you have gone further into my religion than I have gone into yours, but I never made a fool of myself by pretending to criticize Judaism.

Lets also not get into the fact that Christian doctrine is a lie based on mistranslations, the word of a handful of suspicious individuals, and majority rule decisions at 500 years of clerical conclaves. Add to that the readily visible transformations that the religion has undergone in a relatively short period of the last 300 years I am very comfortable in what I know about Christianity, which again is more than you know about Judaism.

"SantaClausowitz, I've been approached by religious fanatics and heard their veiled threats, but only children are scared by that. Are you very young by any chance?"

Oh heaven and hell isn't in your doctrine? Do tell, I'd love to hear that one.

"I'm sure you have gone further into my religion than I have gone into yours, but I never made a fool of myself by pretending to criticize Judaism. "

How about you show me where I made a fool of myself.

It seems to me I asked a question that you don't know how to answer, and it also seems to me that if you can't answer that question or at least approach it you need to be questioning your own knowledge of your religion, not mine...

See, this is why I hate those fake christians so much, because their actions lead to people like SantaClausowitz thinking they understand what they're talking about in threads like this. And you can't argue with them because they don't believe you when you tell them that their concept of christianity is based on a bunch of misguided fools and does not represent the religion in any way, shape or form.

Amen to that.

Christianity is Greek. Paul purged it of any remnants of Judaism. Christians now like to play up the supposed Jewishness of Christianity to deflect from the obvious anti-Semitism of the NT. Jesus is a Greek name (Iesous), not a Hebrew one.

How about somebody correct my view of Christianity instead of just saying its wrong. I did not get my view of Christianity from idiots on the street. I am an American Historian of the early American period which forces me to study the major religious beliefs and movements of the period. This includes the second great awakening which probably has more of an impact on what you view as the "correct" form of christianity than Jesus' teachings themselves. I also studied the Medieval Period where I picked up founding christian beliefs. I guarentee I know more about the history of christianity than at least one or perhaps both of you.

I will also reiterate I live in a CHRISTIAN COUNTRY. In order to understand literature, politics, and culture at any depth I have to understand Christianity to a degree, and that degree is beyond heaven and hell and Santa Claus.

Now if you religious scholars want to take a break from ripping your shirts in anguish over this lost soul and point to where I am unfair in my original comments and questions, please feel free

SantaClausowitz, your entire approach is wrong. If you want to discuss a religion seriously, you can't start from a massacre committed in the name of that religion. That just shows you're confused, nothing else.