Because other people are getting some and he's not. Therefore, those people are evil.

Well, its probably because if anyone made it with him, they'd be liable for prosecution under a local statutory rape law.

Now, *I* consider promiscuity dangerous because there is a greater chance you'll be sticking it in the crazies, and I can tell you from experience that *no* amount of sex is worth having to deal with people who are past certain values of crazy. I used to rank people on a scale where one of my exes was a ten; anyone above a three was to be avoided at all costs.

1. Inflation.

"Inflation is a major problem in America today"

Wrong, wrong, wrong. The US economy is having some problems, but inflation is certainly not a major problem currently.

The rate of inflation in the US was 1.24% in July (the most recent month for which figures are available) and over the preceeding six months it was never higher than 2.31%. That is a comparatively low rate of inflation. Indeed, from March 2009 to October 2009, the US actually experiened deflation, with the inflation rate reaching a low of -2.10% in July 09.

Therefore to suggest the US is currently suffering from high rates of inflation is just factually wrong.


2. Morality.

"Moral standards are at an all-time low in America...The media and television glamorize dangerous activities and lifestyles like binge drinking and promiscuity."

How does the media glamourise binge drinking?

What is wrong with promiscuity? Sex is an enjoyable and healthy activity.


"The government happily gives drug-addicted bums and prostitutes handouts"

What handouts are given to prostitutes? Evidence, please.


"The media no longer faithfully reports the news; they seek the “scoop” for the almighty dollar. Is this a description of Rome or America? Or both?"

Did ancient Rome have newspapers and TV? What are you talking about here?


3. Unemployment.

"Unemployment in America is around ten percent across the board, reaching close to fifteen percent in certain cities. Without work, people need to be propped up by the government, whose money ultimately comes from those with jobs."

Correct.

"The unemployment rate in America is so high because we are under economic attack from China and other countries with cheap labor."

Incorrect. Unemployment is a natural part of your capitalist system. Want full employment? You need socialism, mate.

In terms of the "fall" of Rome, I have read a number of different accounts by various historians, and none of what I've read highlights unemployment as a major problem. Can you elaborate on your claim that unemployment was a major problem for the late romans?


4. Government.

"Our American government does not work. Conservatives and liberals spend a lot more time fighting for power than actually solving any problems."

I pretty much agree.


"Our Constitution is sound, just as Rome’s democratic system was sound when it was created."

What do you mean by "sound" in this context?

Sound, when it comes to Rome, apparently means "not a functional democracy for the last 75% of the existence of the state, if we accept the Republic and Empire lasted from 508 BC to 1453 AD. 27 BC is the usual date given for the formation of the Empire"

Well in regards to our unemployment problem originating in part from competetion from asian countries, that is partly true. Currently it is much much cheaper to pay virtually nothing to workers in under developed countries (also china, somewhat developed) and then ship it where it needs to go. This business model is likely to cease to be effective within the next 50 years, given that it is dependent on cheap energy and lots of it. That energy being used to move the good via ship and airplane from place to place.

Manufacturing jobs will return to the United States eventually, but with their return will also come a decrease in the average standard of living. This being because, it is not feasible for a factory worker to mkae $75 an hour along with healthcare and retirement benefits. The Unions are largely responsible for such inflated wages.

Part of the problem with the overseas workers is that they have no protection or real representation. They are essentially slaves, paid just enough to feed and house them. As the nations over there become more developed and reach the point where they can oppose such transnationals as Walmart, the quality of life for these workers will rise dramatically, and we may even see protections such as we have here for workers in the United States.

Pure Capitalism will always result in oppression of the work force, and is as inherently flawed as Communism. Both look good on paper, but once you figure in human nature and greed, neither functions as intended.

All empires fall eventually.

threadID=634342

Funny text of TMW, is it a caricature of your previous threads? Or do you just want to top them - more ridiculous, more laughable and more antiintelectual?

@Puddle: "it is not feasible for a factory worker to make $75 an hour along with healthcare and retirement benefits. The Unions are largely responsible for such inflated wages."

Are you suggesting there are currently factories in the USA where the ordinary shop-floor level workers earn over $140,000 per year? I think you may be mistaken.

Correct me if i'm wrong but - Unions are responcible for forcing higher wages and healthcare/retirement benifits - this can mean it costs more to employ people and thus less people are employed, but that is still an increase in those who are workers living standards.

So at present the workers Unions in the US don't allow Chinese/Indian workers to join (or force companies operating in those states to provide the same level of welfare) Thus the companies are circumventing the power of the Unions - however as wealth in those countries increases it is likely that the average living standards (across the 'developed' world, not just in the US/Rome) will improve - it is not neccesarily true that the return of manufacturing jobs to the US will decrease the average standard of living.

If capitalism and the competition it entails has done it's job then the cost of providing a 'high' standard of living in 50 years should be lowered sufficiently to afford it to all...

of course this neglects the price of energy (really power, but that's just the physics nerd in me...) and many other finite resources which become more difficult to attain when used up. (it doesn't matter whether you are 'green' or not the idea is "we're finding it harder to drill oil because we used the oil which was easy to drill first". This is not rocket science - but my arguement isthat with capitalism the more efficient technologies are being developed to reduce these costs...)

I doubt that where jobs are is a worry for American macro-planing; where the oil supply is and dependancy on foreign oil is a far more important concern than the Chinese employment situation - which still figures into American foreign policy.

And yes China is becoming an ecomonic super power, but it's ok because 'capitalism' only requires competition, and China has India to compete with it for economic dominance! :)

that shoudl have been @puddle... but em... yeah, </rant>

This isn't as much fun if he doesn't reply to defend his point of view. I guess we'll have to wait for him to come skipping home from school.

I know it's pointless, but...

@TMW:

"Prostitution and crime are rampant, and continue to spread, just as they did in Rome."

Can you please site your sources for this? Studies I've seen have shown that the US is actually much safer than it has been in the past.

I'm not sure if that was meant to be a mean/sarcastic/a put down Mafia, but yea I am in school, doing my senior year of highschool at the local community college.

No, that is not a current number butgive me some time and I'll find the article that shows that that would be the modern day equivalent of what factory workers were being paid in the heighday of U.S. Factory production (I dont remeber the years but I think it was the neighborhood of 1950's through early 1970's.

Yes the unions have done good things, but like all other things that look good on paper, sometimes they overstep what is practicle and good in the long run. The high cost of employing American workers in respect to foreign workers does contribute. As do the tax cuts companies get to outsource jobs over seas (I dont know if these are still in effect or not, but I think that they are)

Rome fell? I thought Vatican City was located there. Isn't it the center for the Catholic Church?

No, the Grand Masonic Temple underneath Buckingham Palace is the ACTUAL center of the Catholic Church, as well as Russian Orthodox, Anglican/Episcopal and Sunni Islam. Duh.

/TMW

"Following the path of Rome, to be specific."

Arrgh. You definitely ain't being specific. Maybe allegorical, but definitely not specific.

@ sic

All of them fall EXCEPT AMERICA.

AMERICAAAAAAAAA

USA USA USA USA USA

Well, to be perfectly honest, I haven't checked Diplomacy in a couple of days, and I'm completely overwhelmed. That might be a poor excuse, but it's the truth.

Whether or not America is following the path of Rome, I think we can all agree that America is on the decline, and something needs to be done, fast. If nothing else, we're under economic attack from all directions. Greedy multinational corporations are exporting all of our jobs to China and India. Unions keep demanding more and more from their employers, despite the fact that the companies that employ them are on the verge of collapse. And illegal immigrants are invading America. Immigrants may not be barbarians, but they sure as hell are attacking America. Not militarily, but economically.

No, to be perfectly honest, you'd admit you're a poorly educated excuse for an American. Even as ignorant as Americans are in stereotyping, you give THEM a bad name.

Troll harder next time. This shit is weak.

Protectionism doesn't work in the long term, ever.

"They're steeeealing our jobs!!!"

No... they are just not so cushy as you, and will work for less. Will that promote a "race to the bottom"? In the short term maybe, but eventually the wages will approach each other (well known principle here) and China and all those "competitors" will start to demand higher wages... just like all human beings do, insatiable things that we are.

And then your wages will be high again.

Hurrah.

TMW, assuming for the moment that you are a professor, have ever taken even a high school level crash course in economics?

'The high cost of employing American workers in respect to foreign workers does contribute.' - What effect Unions have is probably minimal compared to the cost of living.

Considering every american (on average) uses ~6 times as much energy per day, the standard/cost of living for an American worker is already much higher than that of an Indian of Chinese worker.

At present i've seen reports that a middle class in these 'developing' nations is growing as is demand for a higher standard of living (ok i've only seen people talking about hte demand for meat and a more varied diet, but that and electronic products are sure to go hand in hand...)

On the downside, it costs more to educate your workers (company training) if they have a lower basic standard of education (schooling)... so there are drawbacks - My point being, the Union angle is only one part of the issue.

@TMW - I can't possible imagine how 'America' is under attack by greed - the whole idea of A Smith (though i haven't read him) was that independant agents looking out only for themselves (ie Greedy) would compete to make the BEST economy possible.

So yes, Unions, Multinational Corporations, and Immigrants are all looking out for themselves. However this is how the system is 'supposed' to work, n'est pas?

Now it is possibloe that bankers and financial institutions managed to screw themselves and many other people out of money (and it is possible that government regulation/lack of regulation did contribute it's fair share to this) but beyond that I don't think the US economy is in that much trouble.

By the way, the economy is built on trust. The trust that your job will be there in the morning, the trust that your employers will pay you at the end of the month, the trust that your money will be good and food will be available in the shops when you need it... And at some level the banks lost trust of investors.

This is the only thing which i can see which is in need of repair. Trust takes time to build back up, and the economy will recover.

"I admit I don't have a firm grasp of the issue, but I don't see why that prevents me from presenting my undervalidated opinions as self evident facts"

Yeah, TMW, I don't think any of us are admitting that America is on the decline. We're still an extremely young nation, and one minor set of troubles isn't cause to run around saying the sky is falling. Read "The Next 100 Years" -- its your sort of book, all pop history and prognostications, but at least the author knows enough to realize that for at least the next 150 years, America will be central to the world's power structure.

There's absolutely no way on earth anyone can predict what will happen over the next 150 years.

No, but it would be highly improbable for the United States to go from its current status to a full-on decline. It would require a series of catastrophic socio-political events for that to happen. Possible, yes. Probable, no.

I think to your average American, "decline" just means not growing as fast as we did in the second half of the 20th century and/or someone else growing faster than us.

Lol. Which is stupid... but I think that's what they mean when they say "in decline."