@ Checkmate
I wouldn't put it past the EU to come up with a Common Non-Fornication Policy in which prostitutes are given grants to stand on street corners and not have sex with anyone :p

@figle, I haven't a moral problem with lots of things that I still wouldn't want to do. Intrinsically I do not think that prostitution is wrong.

I live in Amsterdam, things are working fine here. A hell of a lot better than in most places, anyways.
Legalize please (not just prostitution, all of it damnit!)

I found "Ain't Nobody's Business If You Do" a nice (but quite long) read there is an overview here: http://www.mcwilliams.com/books/books/aint/101.htm (still quite long :P) about consensual crimes.

@Ghost - that was a suggestion at why do some girls want to do it

@Oct - Or they'd subsidise them all to go for a particular fetish, flooding the market like we had with the Grain Mountains.

@sqrg - "all of it" - what you mean?

In theory people should be allowed rent their bodies out for other to do whatever they want - there is no moral issue for me.

In reality however men have been exploiting women for thousands of years. (i might note that the rich have been exploiting the poor aswell, and the strong exploiting the weak) Thus as a practice prostitution is in reality (rather than theory) exploititive.

Trafficed sex workers tend to have no option but to work the streets, there are illegally in a country so can't turn to the police and feel threaten by their trafficers.

I imagine regulating prostitution would actually improve the situation for them (or undercut their bussiness, so their pimps would either kill them or let them go - but importantly not import any more)

SO in our society of exploitation it is impossible to Speaker's B) voluntarily.

It is not the same as the case for drugs. People who choose to spend money to damage their body clearly want to take the drugs. In parrallel people who pay money to have sex with someone clearly want to have sex. The question is on the other person, whose body is being rented.

In theory they should have the right to rent their body, but this is not reflected in the reality of most prostitution.

I think protecting individuals, in this case comes ahead of enabling the exercise the right to services especially when it is entirely possible to find willing sex partners if you actually look for them. It is a problem of balancing between two human rights, and it is only for historical reasons that i come down in favour of protecting women from exploitation by men.

That doesn't neccesarily mean prostitution should, in my humble opinion, be illegal on a moral grounds (though i would prefer to live in a society where healthy sexual relationships between equal partners were standard/encouraged, and thus have no interest in this clearly unequal relationship - i would go so far as to say i support sex, and i think everyone should have more of it!)

"Intrinsically I do not think that prostitution is wrong." - Intrinsically I do not think that prostitution is right for me (or the kind of society i would desire) - but that doesn't mean i find it neccesary to ban it.

Sex partners may not be into all the kinks you are. Thus there is a market for whores. As a woman, I don't see anything wrong with using the tools nature has given us to make a livelihood for ourselves. Women don't have as strong of hands as men do, so why not allow them to use the resources at their disposal.

That being said... I wouldn't be a prostitute.

@Amon: You're a woman?

Imagine that.

Amon savag, i'm not trying to limit your freedom to whore yourself.

I'm not in principle against women using thier natural talents to influence men, (though in some cases i think it is despicable - i know a girl who cried her way onto a bus, while i had to walk to the train station. Men (in this case the bus driver) should not be so pathetic that her tactic actually works well enough that she tries it. It being despicable does not mean it should be banned)

But i am in favour of protecting people from exploitation.

Anyway, you can usually find sex partners who are into the kinks you are into. Have you tried the internets? i hear people with many different kinks inhabit our tubes.

I think the point being there are far fewer people sharing strange sexual ways, and as a result you might not find someone you socially 'match' with, and for this logic Amon explains a need for prositution?

I guess we'll let orathaic decide for women what is to be considered "exploitation"

yeah, well if you would be so kind, strong exploiting the weak, and rich the poor. I think humans with power have forever exploited those without.

And as i said, that i don't like prostitution is not reason to ban it, but if it is exploitative then i do consider that a good enough reason.

In which case society (not me) should decide whether prostitution is being used to exploit people; of course i don't know how society ecides anything...

orathaic, the major reason why prostitution is exploitative is its illegality. Only those willing to break the law will be involved, making it a dangerous business for any woman to get into.

Also, I'm surely not alone to be disturbed by your willingness to maintain a principle: freedom of action, unless it gets too inconvenient to do so.

If any human being wishes to do something (whether it be prostitution or playing diplomacy), that person cannot be considered exploited for doing so.

I set this subject running because, like drugs, I find my libertarian instincts at odds with society's current position and wondered how "alone" I am on the subject. What follows is based on reading, observation and thought rather than direct experience so almost certainly contains gross oversimplification and stereotypes. In other words, just my 2 cents worth.

My starting point is that what two consenting adults do with each other, for reward or not, is no business of anyone else's, except a partner to whom a contrary commitment has been made. However, this is complicated by a proper need to ensure consent and avoid exploitation plus the practical reality that prostitution appears to exist to some extent in pretty much every society, whether legal or not. In short, you cannot eliminate it so you must control it, the question is "how much?".

In Sweden using a prostitute is a criminal offence. Leaving aside my philosophical objection to intrusion into private behavior, it strikes that any hard line approach like this will drive the business underground leaving workers much more vulnerable and thus is wrong.

In Singapore they have been pragmatic: there are three small areas designated for prostitution. In these there are a mixture of brothels, bars and massage parlors where workers are checked regularly for their health and immigration status. I understand that this is all much more controlled than 30+ years ago and was partly done to reduce crime. Surely this approach is better than a hard line one. Trafficking is eliminated and workers are better protected because, if attacked, you can call the police without fear of prosecution. Also, the risk to the health of the general population through HIV/AIDS is reduced.

The aspect I find most difficult is exploitation. Compare a (possibly mythical) high class hooker earning $000's a night and enjoying the life style to a woman trafficked from Eastern Europe thinking that she was going to get a job as a waitress. The first is perfectly acceptable and the second absolutely not. What about a single mother whose child care commitments are such that she can only work odd hours. Is she being exploited by the men who meet her or the employers that don't allow flexible working or provide a creche or the society that does not provide adequate support? I do not know the answer to this. However, I am sure that an absolute ban will not stop exploitation.

The other thing which I think is a problem relates to drug users who turn to prostitution to fund their habit. I assume that such people may find it difficult to turn up for a regular shift at a brothel and so the street is the only place for them to do business. I understand the wish of residents to eliminate street walking but I wonder what happens to the workers if it is stopped completely. Again, no answer to this.

Thanks to all who have contributed.

Prostitution is legal in Victoria, Australia (not sure about street walking though, probably not, but guess that is for the best). I think it should be legal. Consenting adults. End of story as far as I am concerned.

Isn't it a little obvious that making prostitution illegal just forces it underground and into the hands of criminal elements.

I don't remember where this came up, but if you hire people for an adult film you are starring in, it is legal in most areas.

Prostitution is fully legal in germany (including regular social security, retirement and health insurance regulations and of cause regular taxation), as long as

a) no under-18's are involved (neither in any sexual act nor as "witness" in any kind (so i.e. no brothels nearby schools))

b) all persons involved in the "contract" act freely.

This pretty realistic approach includes the possibility to "provide a appropriate business enviroment (running brothels)", the ability to sue customers that doesn't pay and obviously the regular abilitiy to sue anyone due to coercion. Does that totally prevent coercion? No. But no law whatsoever can do that. But by now the woman don't have to be frightened by their hooker and the police, but the police can really act as their "friend and helper".

@orathaic - You could make the argument that any business is exploitative - I've certainly felt used by my boss before. If there is an owner - whether it is private or government ownership - there is a hierarchy, meaning someone is on top of someone else's labor and/or intellect are being used to benefit someone else. You can not escape "exploitative" behavior - it's the nature of man. At least a prostitute might (*might*) enjoy her time being used (if she's high enough...)

@Tantris, yes, though i feel this is a very different situation for the individuals concerned.

And the question of exploitation is not a simple one to answer. I do imagine there is still exploitation in porn, though i don't find myself with such a hard stance possibly because it is legal in most western nations.

Though notable is the fact that i don't think it has been tested in ireland.

"[In Ireland, Making porn is] Not [legal] if the courts deemed it to be illegal as an affront to the public conscience (I can't remember the case but it was English and regarded a group of men conducting in S&M activity that was deemed to be illegal by the courts even though they were consenting adults.)" - as i said i don't think this has been tested in the courts.

Ok, i'm almost convinced by the examples in Germany.

@Krellin - i don't think the fact the others are exploited is justification for exploiting more people in extra ways.

@orthaic - I'm not sure how prostitution is any more exploitative than a worker on an assembly line, for example. You put a worker in a factory that is hot, greasy and so loud you have to wear ear protection all day long. They stand on this line for 8+ hours a day for 25 + years while the corporate brass makes millions off their labor. I think I'd rather get fucked for a living! Your argument is that prostitution is exploitative, when in fact in a situation like Germany, or Las Vegas, it is a choice of profession, just like any other profession. For that matter, I'd say a majority of goods sold in the US (and probably Europe) are made overseas in Asian countries by people living in what would be considered poverty in the US and Europe. So I'm not sure why prostitution is somehow worse than all the other ways in which humans are essentially enslaved.

I didn't say it was worse, I said it was wrong.

And you can't justify one wrong thing by pointing out that other wrongs thigns are happening in another part of the world.

As a matter of fact i do not support the exploitation of asian workers.

" i do not support the exploitation of asian workers"

But let's say that the situational alternative is starvation. Exploitation is bad in that sense, but better than the alternative.

Similarly, as long as we prevent abuse and coercion, isn't it likely that many prostitutues are better off being prostititues than the other alternatives the street generously provides?

If you do not support *any* "exploitation" of workers, then society must necessarily break down. If I can't make money off your labor when I start a business, then my business can not expand beyond my individual abilities, and progress ceases. I think you need to truly define "exploitation". If I choose to enter a given profession - say factory worker or prostitute - I am agreeing to earn $xxx for a given amount of work. How is that exploitation, unless someone is holding a gun to the head of the factory worker / prostitute? I think exploitation occurs only when someone comes and takes the fruit of my labor against my will to give to someone else. The act of choice changes the equation, does it not?

I have seen many factories in Asia, I even ran one for a bit, and whilst some are no picnic they are improving the living standards of many who would otherwise be scraping a subsistence from the land. Western customers, pressured by public opinion, take care to ensure that people working in their supply chain have reasonable conditions. It is not perfect because a) factory owners sometimes try to fool them and b) Western consumers are very keen on low prices.

When I first moved to Hong Kiong I was horrified by the number of Filipina maids there. Exploitation" screamed my liberal tendencies but I came to understand, from talking to some of them, that they did not feel exploited. They were grateful for the opportunity to earn money to send their children or other family members to school so that they had better options in the future.

I support all exploitation of all who are willing to be exploited. in the end we have a choice. Right or wrong, it's ours to make.

diplomat61: Just because there are greatful doesn't mean they're it's not exploitation