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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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jpchewy01 (100 D)
24 Sep 08 UTC
real strategists wanted
please join my game, real strategists wanted, take all the time you wa
it was cut off after that
0 replies
Open
DingleberryJones (4469 D(B))
23 Sep 08 UTC
New Winner Take All game for newbies - 40 point bet
http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=5807

Game titled Dangle My Cherry
2 replies
Open
MickFlanagen (100 D)
23 Sep 08 UTC
looking for a player
http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=5811
Points-per-supply-center
24 hours/phase: Normal pace
0 replies
Open
Zarathustra (3672 D)
23 Sep 08 UTC
Question on Winnings for Points Per Supply Center
There is a point of contention between another player and I that I am seeking to resolve. He says that when winning a PPSC game (18+ SC) you only get the 18 SC amount of points. I claim that you get the proportion of points equal to the number of centers claimed. Who is right?
2 replies
Open
hermanobrown (925 D)
23 Sep 08 UTC
No turn on weekend
I create a game to play just only during the week. I suggest that everybody finallize theirs orders quicly during the week and let weekend for rest
0 replies
Open
david707 (100 D)
23 Sep 08 UTC
Join "The war of the everest"
5 points to join (mainly for new players)
36 hour turns
points per supply centre
have fun!
1 reply
Open
Masterker (100 D)
23 Sep 08 UTC
New game
Have set up a game called war of the everest please join will start in 36 hours from when this is sent out.
1 reply
Open
EdiBirsan (1469 D(B))
23 Sep 08 UTC
EOG: New Game Three Way draw G17 F7 T10
I took this game over in the Winter of 1901 when Germany had not moved for two complete seasons. The French had an army in Belgium the English a fleet in Holland,
Russia had 7 with Norway,Sweden, Rumania and had built a fleet in the north coast,
Italy had screwed up his orders and had not gotten any builds while Austria and Turkey were intermingled diplomatically and about to make a change in direction.
My goal in the game was to see if I could make something of this wild situation and at the same time learn something about the site.
In 02 I was able to talk the English out of Holland as he started on his game long war with England with his buddy in Italy continuing in the Jihad. Then Russia and Turkey made amends and turned on Austria.
At this point I was trying to decide which way to go when I received a letter from the Russians telling me 'I want to move my tanks to Prussia and Silesia to get them into action." This blew my mind and decided for me that I would have to stay with France and concentrate on the Russians. I wrote to the Russians that this would mean war. That move I went to Sweden and Silesia as a precaution and Russia went to Prussia 'as a mistake'. My orders worked. From there it was a tactical battle and race against time against the Russians with them losing in the north and in the center.
Then with the Russians down to 5 and Germany at 10 or so he dropped. How rude.
The next 3 centers were rather easy and I was able to get an army in Armenia to really shake up the Turks. The Turks previous position was that either he or I were going to die in the game, and as I was allied with the French who was having a hard time with the Italians and the English, I had a choice of going for a very easy win that was not worth it or trying to make a point on how to end games in a somewhat social manner.
So I convinced the Turks to take a three draw with France and I. Then the weirdness happened. England agreed to be out of the draw. Then the weirdness happened when Italy with two units *Portugal and Venice, declared that he was against the draw because he wanted "my one point". Anti social behavior could not be rewarded, so the game was delayed a game year and I had to eliminate both England and ITaly so that there were only three of us.
One of the things this points out is the unfortunate situation in which under these house rules it appears that you cannot have a draw that does not include all survivors.
This translates out as a Kill Policy for most small countries since you cannot end a game without their vote. This may have been the intention in the original rules but those rules were written with a face to face game and social limits in mind, not the endless play that postal or email allows. So unfortunately England had to die along with Italy who was being just a kid looking at the scoring system herein.
Along the way in the game, Austria got knocked down to one center and I was content to leave him in the game at that (before the Kill nature of the ending a game became apparent) but then he dropped and was replaced by another player for reasons unknown and wound up dead in a squeeze play between Turkey and Germany.

How's that for an end of game statement?
10 replies
Open
Blackheath Wanderer (0 DX)
17 Sep 08 UTC
Iraq: A legal war. Discuss
Under the terms of the ceasefire at the end of the first Gulf War, the Iraqi regime was given 12 months to prove that it had disarmed itself of WMD.

12 years later it had not and therefore the recommencement of the ground assault was perfectly valid as Iraq was in breach of the UN brokered ceasefire resolution.

Thoughts?
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Darwyn (1601 D)
17 Sep 08 UTC
"It has been estimated by statisticians and economists and researchers that the war cost your Uncle Sam $52,000,000,000. Of this sum, $39,000,000,000 was expended in the actual war itself. This expenditure yielded $16,000,000,000 in profits. That is how the 21,000 billionaires and millionaires got that way. This $16,000,000,000 profits is not to be sneezed at. It is quite a tidy sum. And it went to a very few."
Withnail160 (1204 D)
17 Sep 08 UTC
what about other peoples' bills of rights?
was the world right to go to war against Hitler?

The concept of "legal war" seems somewhat tenuous to me....UN Resolution or no resolution, the justification was to rid the Iraqui people (ans the world) of a nasty guy doing bad things....the politics of how they went about it seems irrelevant to me...
Darwyn (1601 D)
17 Sep 08 UTC
"quite a few, actually. George HW Bush, for example"

o.O what? Did you just use George HW Bush as an example of a common person?
Withnail160 (1204 D)
17 Sep 08 UTC
"The normal profits of a business concern in the United States are 6, 8, 10, and sometimes 12%. But war-time profits – ah! that is another matter – 20, 60, 100, 300, and even 1,800% – the sky is the limit."

what the hell does this mean? % of what?
Withnail160 (1204 D)
17 Sep 08 UTC
"If you don't want any more war, help spread democracy"

how come democracy is the only answer? is there any evidence that democracies are less likely to go to war? And what exactly is a democracy? would you argue that the US is a democracy?
Darwyn (1601 D)
17 Sep 08 UTC
"War is a part of human nature, it is inevitable."

FIGHTING is a part of human nature. WAR, however is manufactured by the elites and sold to the common folk by any means necessary.
Treefarn (6094 D)
17 Sep 08 UTC
So how many quotes are we going to get from the same book? Yes, some people profit in war. Doesn't mean ridding the world of Hitler was a bad thing.
Darwyn (1601 D)
17 Sep 08 UTC
"what the hell does this mean? % of what?"

The context is in the link I provided...I believe Mr. Butler is referring to the profit margin of a company making a product.
Warrior (675 D)
17 Sep 08 UTC
Mc Cain: “human nature” sounds pretty but represents nothing. We live in cultures, not in a natural environment. And animals never make war, just humans.
Wars are consequences of a bad distribution of wealth. In any society, usually the 20 % of the people has the %80 of wealth. They also make the big decisions, and the other 80 % have nothing to do if they don’t agree. The dominant class eventually wants a war to expand their wealth, but they need to convince the crowd whit a good reason. For example, they lovely songs “we love peace” and “we help the poor” of Christian church are just words, the real facts is that they support wars, slavery, invasions, even today. So, when some banks or companies think that they need a war, they put the machinery on, with lies, provocations, justifications, etc.
You think that the citizens of US are willing to kill some Muslims because they are not Christian or they punish women? Maybe they only want to watch TV and drink beer. Maybe this is the better example of “human nature”: don’t look for a problem if you don’t need that.
I don’t want to make war, I don’t want to rule the world, I don’t want to abuse of another country. Maybe I have a problem with my “human nature”, but I am sure that common people don’t want to die in a stupid war.
All your comments were trying to justify violence, murder, invasion, pillage. You are as perfect example of a washed brain. Remember that there is another way different than the “American way of war”
Denzel73 (100 D)
17 Sep 08 UTC
Darwin wrote: "If you don't want any more war, help spread democracy, like you said, the common people rarely want war(in some places, like Croatia, they do) so by democratizing you reduce the risk."

Now, that's a misinterpretation! I am from Croatia, and believe me, we didn't want a war in 1991! We wanted democracy, but war was forced upon us by our neighbors. Or to be exact, we were led to believe it was so, by our leaders who pretended to be democrats, and were actually war-profiteers.
There's not much difference between Croatia in 1991 an USA in past 100 years, only US government is more sophisticated and experienced in fabrication of excuses to enter the wars ;)
Withnail160 (1204 D)
17 Sep 08 UTC
how can you have a profit margin greater than 100% And who says a normal business makes a 10% prfot margin?

What's the point of quoting totally out of context when you don't even know what the original author is talking about? Pretty unconvincing....
Darwyn (1601 D)
17 Sep 08 UTC
ok, I'll stop.. :)

I'm not saying ridding the world of Hitler was a bad thing. But look at how Hitler rose to power. Look at how he was able to convince an entire country that they needed more land or power. The term fascism was in fact created to describe Moussalini's (Hitler's partner in crime) government.
Darwyn (1601 D)
17 Sep 08 UTC
"how can you have a profit margin greater than 100%"

If I make a product that costs me $2 and sell it to you for $200. That's a...fuk I'm bad at math...1000% profit? It's greater than 100%, that's for sure...

"And who says a normal business makes a 10% prfot margin?"
This is from 1933...a 10% profit nowadays in not unheard of.

"What's the point of quoting totally out of context when you don't even know what the original author is talking about? Pretty unconvincing...."
Try reading it for yourself first...then ask questions if you don't understand it. I posted a link for this very reason. Perhaps you should click it.
Darwyn (1601 D)
17 Sep 08 UTC
Anyway, I'm sorry...I have driven this thread off-topic. I'll stop now.
DukeAtreides (100 D)
17 Sep 08 UTC
McCain, this is going back a bit, but Croatia wanted independence, not war. It's not their fault the Serbs can't fathom self-determination.
Withnail160 (1204 D)
17 Sep 08 UTC
no my friend - that is a mark up...the profit margin would be 198/200 or 99%

It is not unheard of but that was not what was suggested - you used the word normal not unheard of

And I have no interest in reading the link - you are just randomly quoting out of context. Well done!
DingleberryJones (4469 D(B))
17 Sep 08 UTC
Regardless of how hitler came to power, was war with him just?
Denzel73 (100 D)
17 Sep 08 UTC
There are no "just wars". Any war is just, if a starter finds a justification. Hitler attacked Poland because Polish soldiers attacked a radio-station in Gleiwitz on August 31st 1939. If you can buy THAT story, you can believe that Saddam supported AlQaida in 11/9 attack. Sad.
Treefarn (6094 D)
17 Sep 08 UTC
Well thankfully Denzel is not running for office.
Darwyn (1601 D)
18 Sep 08 UTC
"no my friend - that is a mark up...the profit margin would be 198/200 or 99%"

Okay, let's go over what just transpired here...seems you are intent on splitting hairs rather than trying to make a point.

I quoted: "The normal profits of a business concern in the United States are 6, 8, 10, and sometimes 12%"

To which you asked: "% of what?"

Now clearly, General Butler is talking about what he perceives to be a guesstimate of what a "normal" company circa 1933 would ultimately profit from during times of peace, as opposed to war time...the profit is in the form of a percentage. In other words, if I sold you something for $2.20 that I bought for $2.00, I made a 10% profit.

Where's the confusion? The words were clear. So, what exactly do you mean then when you say "% of what"? Silly me, I thought you had a legitimate question that I tried to clarify with a term I admittedly used incorrectly. What I was trying to describe was the margin between what something is bought for and what it is sold for. % of what you say? % of Profit

It would seem to me that if you knew exactly what "profit margin" and "mark up" is, the quote from Butler wouldn't have baffled you as it did. You are already more knowledgeable about business terms than I am, yet I understood it perfectly well. Again, where's the confusion?

Then you go on with "It is not unheard of but that was not what was suggested - you used the word normal not unheard of".

General Butler used the term "normal". Again, you are splitting hairs. If you have issue and want to challenge the realism of his suggested 1933 business model, you are taking it up with the wrong person. I merely tried to offer perspective to the comment by comparing it to today's business profits.

"And I have no interest in reading the link - you are just randomly quoting out of context. Well done!"

Well that is interesting. :) You hadn't the time or interest to simply click a button to read it for yourself, but you had plenty of time and interest to read through all of my quotes, feign ignorance and then be critical of something that I did not write.

I'm confused as to what you are trying to contribute to this discussion. If something General Butler wrote offends you, let's have it. If you are pro-war, let's have it.

But to sit back and cherry pick your critique while claiming to not be interested in reading the link that I provided to gain your own context, contributes nothing. I'm fine with disagreement...but I'm at a loss for why you are even posting in this thread.

You made no point and completely dismissed mine by closing your eyes. Indeed...Well done! :)
Darwyn (1601 D)
18 Sep 08 UTC
Anyway, I've said all there is to say about this new tangent. My thoughts on the actual topic can be seen in the second post of this thread.
sean (3490 D(B))
18 Sep 08 UTC
Illegal? well at the end of the day i dont really care what a bunch of overpaid elitist suits at the UN who spend all day deep in international protocol books and all night socializing on my taxpaying dollars think about the legality of the war.

Isnt it more important to ask...was it the moral?
was it smart? was it the best response to the tradegy of 9/11? was it well planned? was it a complete waste of lives and money?

jury is in on that verdict besides a few holdout neocon nutjobs who actually either buy that BS about america spreading democracy or who think people are dumb enough to believe that.
Withnail160 (1204 D)
18 Sep 08 UTC
Darwyn - my interest is in using language to communicate. If you use it so imprecisely (as you do) then all of your arguments are open ended and non-specific. Through this mechanism you can always claim you meant a huge range of different things in hindsight - this is how wars are started. Its people like you that start them

This is my point
Darwyn (1601 D)
18 Sep 08 UTC
Well, that is a good point actually. :) I think you dramatized it by pointing out my incorrect usage of profit margin...You had every opportunity to read it for yourself, but chose instead to nitpick my explanation...but indeed, you have a point.

However, you forget that not only does imprecise language start wars which, I might add can easily be viewed as an honest mistake, so too does dismissing arguments without reviewing what is presented, which is deliberate and founded in arrogance.
Withnail160 (1204 D)
18 Sep 08 UTC
I appreciate the fact that you see my point. I will reciprocate by agreeing that you are right that I am picking out specific (and irrelevant) points of detail to criticise...I apologise

I think you are unfair to say that I dismissed any of your arguments - to be honest I am surprised that you think you were making any arguments (you cut and pasted a bunch of out of context quotes from a random text about war)....

I inferred (possibly incorrectly) that you were presenting these random pockets of opinion as representing your own opinions....most of the quotes contain leaps of faith supporting the supposition. I questioned three of them - that the quote about business was made by someone that clearly knew little about business (or maybe was willing to generalise unappropriately), that democracy is by definition a good strategy and that war can only be justified as self defence or to protect liberty. As a basis of an argument I would question all three premisses....
DingleberryJones (4469 D(B))
18 Sep 08 UTC
This would have been an interesting thread about whether it was legal if the thread hadn't been hijacked by some standing on a soapbox. You don't have to like something to discuss whether its legal. There's lots of things I don't like, but will be happy to support you in if you want to do it, as its your legal right to do so.
Warrior (675 D)
18 Sep 08 UTC
The only legacy of war is force. I agree Sean's sentence about a bunch of overpaid elitist suits at the UN: they are paid to justify the use of force by the powers.
Darwyn (1601 D)
18 Sep 08 UTC
Well, my argument regarding the thread topic began and ended with my second post...everything thereafter was related to the tangential (is that a word?) progression of the thread.

And I think that my copy/pasting of this was not useful or necessary. I was only hoping to spark some interest in reading the actual link. The link does however closely represent my opinion, but I suppose it shouldn't have been used to replace it since the quotes were hand picked. I think if you read the link in it's entirety, it will make much more sense. I did a disservice by copy/pasting them. I do apologize. I will make an effort to choose my words a bit more carefully. So thank you! :)

Dingle...I wouldn't say that I, in particular, hijacked the thread. Although I am guilty of encouraging a tangent argument, but not hijacking...I think. But I did apologize for that as well.

Anyway, back on topic...

I find it interesting that no one has touched upon the one thing that makes or breaks the legality of this war...UN resolution 1441.

How can we have a discussion about the Iraq war's legality if we aren't even talking about the document which gives it it's power?
McCain (100 D)
19 Sep 08 UTC
Besides, war trims the population and has caused numerous medical and technical innovations.
Warrior (675 D)
19 Sep 08 UTC
Mc Cain: sorry, but you are a beast. That's the education you achieve in the first world, or you are kidding me? How can you justify war as a trim of population? Are you spartan? They used the "crpyptia" as a training for warriors and to eliminate increasing slavery.
I agree that all the thechnology we use today first was conceived with a warlike purpose, but you can keep on searching and left the war to rest in peace.
Also, there are other ways if you need population control. For example, the Chinese government introduced the "one child policy" in 1979. Don't you find this more civilised?





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78 replies
ninja_trout (119 D)
23 Sep 08 UTC
New Game, get it while its hot!
New game called Lets get it on! Bet is only 25 and 20 hour/phase. All welcome!!!
0 replies
Open
Sicarius (673 D)
18 Sep 08 UTC
Capitalism
being very anti-capitalist, I can't see why anyone could think thats it's a good system. why do you think it is
127 replies
Open
Pareno (108 D)
22 Sep 08 UTC
TOTAL GLOBAL SOCIO-ECONOMIC COLLAPSE
Whoa.

Yup, that’s what the Secretary of the Treasury of the United States of America said we were ONE day away from on Friday, 19SEP08.

<B><I>That would be a bad thing, M-kay?</I></B>

Comments? Causes?

IMHO, the main cause is the $10 trillion national debt of the United States of America. What do you think?
12 replies
Open
EdiBirsan (1469 D(B))
22 Sep 08 UTC
DRAW REQUEST game A3 Germany-France-Turkey
The game is requested to be a draw G 17/F7/T 10
Please await the posting by the other two and then do what ever it is that is needed.
6 replies
Open
WhiteSammy (132 D)
22 Sep 08 UTC
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!
jugglingbeast,

YOU'RE THE 8521st AND NEWEST PERSON TO BECOME A MEMBER ON PHPDIPLOMACY.NET

YOU WIN GAMES FULL OF LYING, BACKSTABBING, AND SELF-CENTERED EGOTISTICAL LOONIES WHO WANT TO USE YOU TO FURTHER THEIR DIPLOMACY CAREER.
0 replies
Open
Sicarius (673 D)
19 Sep 08 UTC
essay on agriculture and the leisure time of primitive culture
now that I think of it, I challenge someone to find evidence that 'primitives' DONT have more leisure time than us. It's a pretty widly accepted fact, so where your proof?

anyway this essay is for um... doc or something
41 replies
Open
Spell of Wheels (4896 D)
22 Sep 08 UTC
Rules Question Re: Movement
SETUP: 2 armies of a nations surround an empty SC (or any empty space) and one of those 2 armies is adjacent to an army of a different nation who can also enter the empty territory , such as Russia has armies in GAL and BOH-- Austria has an army in BUD. VIE is open.
The assumption is that BUD will move to VIE. Can GAL attack BUD and move BOH to VIE unimpeded? Or is a support move required? The question is asked because a 3rd nation wants BUD to be attacked in the event that BUD does not go to VIE. Thanks in advance.
4 replies
Open
Polar Bear (1038 D)
20 Sep 08 UTC
The leagues - what a disappointment
If anyone wants to join the leagues I will be dropping out of Group F after this game and you can take my place. The league is a pile of shite. Everyone is trying so hard to win, it's like the thing is some kind of e-peen. Like you're going to go and tell your wife or your friends at work that you won some virtual text based competition and they're gonna go "Gee Bobby, you finally did something with your life, way to go!"

Get a life guys, it's 5 points at stake.

We're only a few turns in and not a single person has kept their word or offered any kind of help. When I offer help it's treated as some kind of trick or trap. If I ask for information I am treated like Satan. Everyone is super paranoid. All of the above I can handle; what I won't tolerate though is people being RUDE.

Here's a typical interaction:

Me: "Hey would you like support into <territory>.....?"

Other Player: "Screw you if you think you're going to trick me into leaving you a opening. Your evil plan is obvious... do you think I am stupid? You can go to hell!"

Me: "If I attack <territory> and you attack <territory> then we both help each other. Can you confirm that you will do this?"

Other player: "Just you do you think you are to make such demands! You have no right! Do you think I am stupid? I don't have to do ANYTHING you say. Go to hell!"

I come onto the internet for fun and I play Diplomacy for the social contact. Yes it's also about winning and losing but the league seems to have extinguished anything pleasant or social about the game.

I don't really have the personal time to devote to the Diplomacy anyway, but when I come to the PC and find a inbox full of hate, it makes me question my priorities.

So, if you want to spend your virtual online time with a bunch of arrogant, over-competitive, paranoid, hateful, duplicitous scumbags, join the leagues.

Or maybe it's just my league and the others are different.
55 replies
Open
Genghis Bonaparte the Great (126 D)
20 Sep 08 UTC
Please draw this game
please draw this:
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=5416

france will comply
2 replies
Open
texasdeluxe (516 D(B))
22 Sep 08 UTC
Anyone want to take over Germany before we start
Pre game still and Germany is CD! http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=5760
0 replies
Open
Ivo_ivanov (7545 D)
21 Sep 08 UTC
DRAW REQUEST for "PRAGUE"
Hello Kestas,

please, can you draw the game http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=5083.

The other players will confim shortly.
5 replies
Open
sean (3490 D(B))
21 Sep 08 UTC
League Links
Ok, so thats bad news about the PB vs maple leaf squabble but apart from that we are all happy right? i know its bad form to display private chats and all but i would like a easy link to see how we are all going in our leagues.
here is group A
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=5660
8 replies
Open
Sicarius (673 D)
22 Sep 08 UTC
speed game
anyone interested in starting a speed game, now
1 reply
Open
DukeAtreides (100 D)
20 Sep 08 UTC
Opening chat records post-game
Is there a particular reason that after a game has ended the chat records aren't opened to the general public? I think it would give an interesting context to the map.
11 replies
Open
CirclMastr (227 D)
21 Sep 08 UTC
Draw Request for LUELinks II
Please draw this game: http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=5328

The other players will confirm, and I am England confirming for myself. Thanks.
3 replies
Open
MarekP (12864 D)
21 Sep 08 UTC
Draw Request - "Blindfold"
Kestas, please, draw the game ID=5123 (Blindfold) as soon as all other players (England and Turkey) express their agreement. Thank you!
1 reply
Open
Sicarius (673 D)
21 Sep 08 UTC
Denver/Boulder
does anyone here, live... well here I guess
2 replies
Open
Ursa (1617 D)
21 Sep 08 UTC
I said, don't!!
I did not start this game but we're still looking for four players. If you're up for the challenge, please join 'Don't push the red button *push*' at http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=5769

Bet = 25, not too high, not too low. Everyone welcome!
0 replies
Open
Tucobenedicto (100 D)
17 Sep 08 UTC
College Process
Any seniors on phpDip? How's the process treating you guys?
87 replies
Open
bc2000 (990 D)
21 Sep 08 UTC
Improvement?
Dear Kestas
I noticed you have paginated the Games tabs, but now I have a little issue while searching for something or someone there.

Before I used the Find tool of the browser, but that works only on the current page.

I know is a minimal topic, but I had no problem with the previous 1-page tabs and just was wondering if this change really is useful and what the majority of users prefers.

Thanks.
1 reply
Open
ldrut (674 D)
20 Sep 08 UTC
No CDs Allowed - 101 Pts to join, 36 hours
So can I please have a game with fewer than 5 CD's and where everyone at least finishes 1901?
4 replies
Open
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