http://www.straitstimes.com/news/asia/south-east-asia/story/malaysian-plane-shot-down-buk-missile-ukrainian-adviser-ifax-2014071

"Mr. Gerashchenko was quoted as saying: “A civilian airliner travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur has just been shot down by a Buk anti-aircraft system...280 passengers and 15 crew have been killed.”"

Sounds more and more like this was a missile strike.

Who did it is going to have quite the impact in Eastern Europe.

And the FAA, according to MSNBC, is reporting that US flights aren't to fly in that airspace.

Obiwan, ever the warmonger, calling for escalation as usual.

And if it was a pro-Ukrainian strike?

Lord knows I'm not especially a fan of the Russian government or Yanukovych, but let's not mince words. His deposition was a straight up coup d'état, and we very likely had a hand in it. Maybe if we'd stop doing this kind of shit, it wouldn't consistently come back to bite us in the ass.

@Hellenic Riot:

Culpable in terms of negligence, maybe...but I'd place greater blame on the shooting party. That being said, yeah...not a great year for this company...

"If this was a pro-Russian or Russian strike, the EU and US HAVE to do something more targeted..."

And naturally if this were the Kiev fascists there will be no consequences at all. No need for the US to stop supporting these murderers, they've done so much already.

Oh please, Obi. If this were over Israeli airspace you'd be blaming the commercial airliner for flying into a warzone.

Putin is bringing Israel and kiev fascists in. Seems as if someone is of the opinion that this was from Russia With Love.

To be fair Putin, the Ukraine situation is different from the Israel/Palestine one. It's apples and oranges.

@Obi

Yeah, obviously I'm not saying it's entirely their fault. But definitely partial blame has to be laid at the door of whoever chose that flight path. It's like flying over Syria, or Iraq, or Gaza right now.

Oh please, Putin. If this were over Russian airspace you'd be blaming the commercial airliner, the weather, anything BUT your namesake and the Russians.

You're as shamelessly biased as I am...just for another party. (At least I didn't name myself SharonSharon33 or something.)

@Santa ... That's what I'm saying. If there is a line of wreckage going miles and miles back from the confirmed crash site, the plane broke up in the air.

@Obi ... It's highly unlikely that this is an act of war against the west, and if it is, I doubt we'd ever have proof other than some fringe group claiming responsibility.

Burning people alive in the trade union building wasn't enough to get the US (or people here) to stop supporting the butchery of Russian speakers, so I fail to see how this will.

Again, it might well be the Ukrainians, and it might well just be a crash.

But you have a lot of nerve to call me out for my pro-Israel bias and then give the conversational equivalent of plugging your ears and going "lalalalalala" any time Putin, Russia, or the Separatists are questioned.

As if they have a clean track record.

...As if they even have a clean record *in 2014 alone.*

"If this were over Russian airspace you'd be blaming the commercial airliner, the weather, anything BUT your namesake and the Russians."

What? This doesn't even make sense. The only sensible comparison was if I complained if say a Russian airliner was flying over a warzone with repeated air attacks and got shot down. And no I wouldn't.

You two need to hit puberty already and stop acting like kids on here.

@bo_sox:

I'm not saying it's an action of war against the West, I'm just saying the West needs to get its house back in order, because Russia seems to be leaning back into a Cold War attitude, and we can't have infighting in the West. That means, in fairness, we can't have this nonsense spying on Merkel or the Russians. That nonsense needs to be stopped, immediately. We can't afford to alienate friends or remain divided while Putin takes advantage of that diplomatically speaking.

You say nothing about the consequences if your fascist buddies in Kiev shot this down. Just like you've said nothing about the fact that the snipers at Maidan were pro-Ukrainian.

That speaks volumes.

"As if they have a clean track record."

They're defending themselves from fascist aggression. Their record is much cleaner than yours.

"What? This doesn't even make sense. The only sensible comparison was if I complained if say a Russian airliner was flying over a warzone with repeated air attacks and got shot down. And no I wouldn't."

I'm willing to bet you would, denials aside, Putin...

You never, never, NEVER call out Big Bad Vlad or the Separatists...you were actinf just months ago as if they'd never annex Crimea. You're about as biased in favor of them and as much a shameless apologist as a FOX News anchor for the GOP.

"because Russia seems to be leaning back into a Cold War attitude"

Projection par excellence.

"You never, never, NEVER call out Big Bad Vlad or the Separatists.."

They've done nothing wrong. I'm not going to scold people just for the sake of scolding.

think of all the families that dropped off their loved ones at the airport or are waiting to pick them up and heard this happened. Heartbreaking as always. Senseless as well.

Obi, as much as I despise US spying on allies, I see no relevance here. American foreign policy has been a disaster since 9/11 and everyone knows that, but that doesn't mean that France and Germany are about to cozy up to Russia instead.

"They're defending themselves from fascist aggression. Their record is much cleaner than yours."

1. Mine? MY biggest offense is boring people to tears with 5,000 word posts here.

2. You continue to refer to ALL the Ukrainians as if they were ALL in the Neo-Nazi camp. They're not. They're not even the majority. Unless you're prepared to throw all Americans out with the KKK bathwater, stop penalizing the majority for the actions of a despicable minority.

@bo_sox:

Yes, I know that it's a long-term issue, I'm just saying that that's a policy we desperately need to reform. They wouldn't cozy up to Russia, of course, but we could take far more effective action against Putin if we were unified and not consumed with in-house squabbling.

Considering what has happened, the incorporation of Crimea was an act that protected the people there from aggression and violence. Putin and the Crimean people had more foresight than I did.

Ahhhh...look at all teh feigned outrage....

But the continuing slaughter in Syria? Silence...
ISIS is Iraq? Silence...
Pick your global hotspot apart from Israel (everyone's favoirte and constant villian).....silence.
Here's an old favorite....CHICAGO!!!!! SILENCE....


I y'all want to be outraged about pointless death, can you at least be consistent and be outraged by ALL of it.

"They've done nothing wrong. I'm not going to scold people just for the sake of scolding."

Annexing Crimea? Actions against the LGBT community?

http://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/20140715/1000Z/EHAM/WMKK

Seems to me like this flight was significantly north-east of all the other flights that have gone on that route.

"You continue to refer to ALL the Ukrainians as if they were ALL in the Neo-Nazi camp. They're not. "

You continue to pretend that the fascist coup represent all Ukrainians, and ignore the fact that people in the east are in fact Ukrainian.

"
1. Mine? MY biggest offense is boring people to tears with 5,000 word posts here."

And being a disgusting warmonger who cheers on murder.

"but that doesn't mean that France and Germany are about to cozy up to Russia instead."

Don't count on that. France is willing to endure massive fines to provide Russia warships, and German businesses want this nonsense with sanctions to stop.