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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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krellin (80 DX)
18 Jul 14 UTC
(+2)
Oh noes...the AIDS Researchers...
Just listened to Obama blathering about the AIDS researchers on the Malaysian flight. Oh noes...the AIDS researchers....suddenly this flight is more important than others, because of the AIDS researchers...

If it were just shmucks like you and I that had died…not so big a deal. But the AIDS researchers…oh noes…Anyone else think that every life is precious, not just the AIDS researchers….OH NOES!!!
106 replies
Open
pangloss (363 D)
20 Jul 14 UTC
WBC SoundCloud
The Westboro Baptist Church has a SoundCloud page. They have 7h30 worth of parodies, some good, some bad (in terms of singing, production, etc.).
https://soundcloud.com/wbcsays/sets/parodies
In particular, 666 (Pumped-up Kicks) is fairly well done.
5 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
19 Jul 14 UTC
The WebDip Forum Drinking Game
Take a shot if.......
49 replies
Open
NBA Free Agency
I thought it would be nice to have a thread on NBA free agency, see what everyone was thinking about the main 'dramas' unfolding
133 replies
Open
Al Swearengen (0 DX)
18 Jul 14 UTC
Zionism, Jihad, Integration and the Postbellum South
By Al Swearengen

Actually, I probably won't get around to writing this.
18 replies
Open
Yaniv (1323 D(S))
19 Jul 14 UTC
Diplomacy, statistically speaking...
what are the odds of a player (a) soloing; (b) drawing; (c) surviving; (d) losing?
11 replies
Open
THELEGION (0 DX)
19 Jul 14 UTC
bar fight
Ok so there's a giant drunken bar fight between the irish, germans, vikings, russians and a combined force of american red necks and hill billys which group will win.
5 replies
Open
ThatBuhlLarry (100 D)
19 Jul 14 UTC
For Anyone Interested in a World Game
1 day phases; starts in 3 days
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=144739
1 reply
Open
VashtaNeurotic (2394 D)
05 Jul 14 UTC
(+3)
Mafia IV: Reptilian Invasion
See inside.
1463 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
18 Jul 14 UTC
:) OR (:
Why do smiley faces always have to come eyes-first?
19 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
18 Jul 14 UTC
Now Trending on Tumblr
Another person killed by stupid aggressive cops for no fucking reason. Is anyone surprised?

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/staten-island-man-dies-puts-choke-hold-article-1.1871486
10 replies
Open
Hellenic Riot (1626 D(G))
17 Jul 14 UTC
Malaysian Airliner shot down over Ukraine
Never getting on a Malaysian aeroplane...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28354856
198 replies
Open
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
18 Jul 14 UTC
I work for a US multi-national and.....
.... they use websense to prevent me going to certain undesirable websites.
I cannot access the Labour Party or Liberal Democrats websites.
Guess what, I can access the Conservative website.
16 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
17 Jul 14 UTC
(+1)
does life get any better?
Sitting out back, fire pit ablaze, smoking a cigar and sipping a scotch while the dogs run around a d bark at the dear and the sun sets...
32 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
14 Jul 14 UTC
(+1)
What I've Been Saying About Gaza:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/israel-iron-dome-could-prolong-195600244.html Main quote inside, but essentially--the Iron Dome, which has (thankfully) stopped hundreds of rocket attacks in just a few days now, has taken all pressure off Netanyahu to negotiate, while Hamas arguably stands to gain more from prolonging the conflict--ie, shooting rockets knowing they'll be intercepted and reprisals will come--than by making peace. So, settle in, boys and girls...
249 replies
Open
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
17 Jul 14 UTC
WTF is wrong with Indian men....
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-28340617

Kiddie rape in India ...... the police are so useless some might accuse them of being part of the overall problem
19 replies
Open
zultar (4180 DMod(P))
17 Jul 14 UTC
(+9)
Babak wanted to say "Hi" to WebDip
Babak asked me to say "Hi" to webdip on facebook. He is doing well, has a 6 month old baby, and just moved to a new country, but once things settle down, he might join us again.
So in the mean time, shape up your diplomatic and tactical skils and let's see who else we can drag back. :)
19 replies
Open
josepr (100 D)
17 Jul 14 UTC
what is the average age of webdiplomacy players?
Is there a statistic? I want to know. In a game I felt I was playing with the stubbornness of a child. He/she wanted ALL his way. All the negotiation was "this is mine mine mine". He/she couldn't see the repercussions of a bad decision because he/she wanted the gratification of now.

Seriously, knowing the age of a person before starting a game or a negotiation can help a lot. Psychological speaking.
78 replies
Open
brora (100 D)
18 Jul 14 UTC
How to join a new game?
I'm a new player - new to this site. I am trying to get into a new game. When I press on 'New' I see a list of new games. However, some are 'padlocked' and require passwords. How do I get into those? Or can I only play games without padlocks?
9 replies
Open
lixu893 (0 DX)
18 Jul 14 UTC
Where to buy Cases For Samsung Galaxy S5
You need a special case for your new Samsung Galaxy S5, to show your taste and protect your phone. We happen to have thousands of different styles cases for Samsung Galaxy S5. It is your best choice for shopping at our store. Free shipping for two cases now at http://www.centurycases.com/.
3 replies
Open
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
17 Jul 14 UTC
^^^^ UK General Election 2015 ****
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28339128
Lib Dems have gone early while Cameron is on the defensive after his re-shuffle. Because of the current coalition of Tories/Liberals there will be a new dynamic to the elections, also the rise of UKIP is a bit of an unknown factor.
30 replies
Open
mikelikeike (100 D)
17 Jul 14 UTC
Live Game, Players needed
Low risk game. Join now. Slots will go fast!
gameID=144714
3 replies
Open
SYnapse (0 DX)
16 Jul 14 UTC
How to Solo as Italy
Is there a way?
47 replies
Open
steephie22 (182 D(S))
17 Jul 14 UTC
Best free webdesign software
I'm very likely going to design another website, but unlike last time, this isn't for school or something, so I can use all the tools I want to make my job easier. What software would you recommend? There's quite a lot to choose from and I don't want to try them all, nor spend extra hours because I'm missing some very useful features...
8 replies
Open
mikelikeike (100 D)
17 Jul 14 UTC
Dominion 2 (live game)
1 reply
Open
Jamiet99uk (808 D)
15 Jul 14 UTC
UK Cabinet re-shuffle
Hague stepping down as Foreign Secretary, Gove removed from Education and sidelined. Thoughts?
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NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
16 Jul 14 UTC
Octo I realise you are on the back foot a bit now and don't seem to be the kind of guy who can handle criticism very well, I could help you with that but that is for a different day.
Before the Conservatives can move forward they have to be honest about both their successes and their failures because guess what, the public already know, it is very arrogant to think if you keep telling people a lie they will eventually believe you, also this is the kind of politics and politicians Cameron said he wanted to do away with, now he himself is spinning out of control telling us all that he wants by his side because he is the greatest thing since sliced bread when we all know that the next leader of the Tories will be either Gove or Boris and the Tory backbench are sharpening their knives waiting for election defeat in 2015. Did you notice Liam Fox refused to take a position offered by Cameron, a clear sign he is getting ready to support a challenge to the PM in the not-too-distant future.
We make a great balance on this forum, you keep spreading the lies and I'll keep telling the truth ..... it works perfectly.
After seeing Cameron try and lurch to the right can you just remind me once again how irrelevant UKIP are, I think you need to tell Cameron, I don't think he is getting the message. His cabinet is almost whiter-than-white.
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
16 Jul 14 UTC
sorry should read 'he wants GOVE by his side'
Hellenic Riot (1626 D(G))
16 Jul 14 UTC
Gove being gone is fantastic, but I do hope he succeeds in becoming the next Tory leader. Nothing would increase voter turnout so much as him being leader, and so many previously disenfranchised 18-25 year olds who wouldn't have voted turning up solely to vote Labour/Lib Dems to make sure he lost.
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
16 Jul 14 UTC
Gove will stand because he is an arrogant twat and he will be supported by the right-wing but Boris is nailed on as the next leader of the Tory Party and I can see that happening in less than 12 months from now, when the Tories turn on their own they are vicious ..... Camerons days are numbered and I think he knows it, hence the desperation in the cabinet re-shuffle .... you can put lipstick on a pig but he's just the same as the others, his head buried in the trough fighting with the rest of them to see what he can get out of politics, what price a person with honesty and integrity.
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
16 Jul 14 UTC
Gove - "it is a wrench leaving the job I love"
Message from the British public "f*** right off you are an absolute c*** "
I am still laughing .... out of sheer relief.
Teachers and educationalists went to bed last night happier than they have been in a long while, now it is time to start putting things back together again.
Today should be declared a bank holiday ..... it is like Narnia when Aslan returned.
Putin33 (111 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
The only serious Tory is Kenneth Clarke. Boris the Clown would be a disaster.
Invictus (240 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
"The funny thing is if Labour has this poor of a record you'd be destroying them but part tribalism always takes precedence right." -Putin33

Reposted without comment.


I don't really know what's good or bad about Gove. Another country's education policies are just not something I can bring myself to care about. And it is the policies that matter, right? Is Gove moving to another cabinet post really such a victory if the policies he pursued continue? And why wouldn't they? The Tories are still in government. Apart from being emotionally satisfying, what's really been gained?
thomas dullan (422 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
Poem for a Tory PM:
"If you can keep your head when all about your
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you.
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
And make allowance for their doubting, too....

For what it's worth to any blue-blood true Brit,
Who's on the run - you'll stay PM, my son."
thomas dullan (422 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
(+1)
(Response to Invictus)
"Apart from being emotionally satisfying, what's really been gained?"
It is indeed emotionally satisfying for the victims of a policy to see its most prominent proponent moved on, but it is not just that.
Policies do change, at least subtly, when there is a change of personnel. While we do not expect Nicky Who? to change the policy of 'Free' schools, we do expect her to abandon the practice adopted by Mr Gove of opening new 'Free' schools in parts of the country where there is no shortage of school places at the expense of building new schools or classrooms in parts of the country where there is an acknowledged shortfall.
Another potential benefit for those involved in education may be understood by the analogy of the arrival of a new teacher to replace the miserable, hyper-critical, unsupportive, ungenerous pedagogue whom you, as a pupil, have had the misfortune to endure for four years. You may realise that the same subjects will be taught, but you cherish the hope that the new arrival will occasionally praise your achievements as a measure of your worth as a pupil, rather than of his own worth as a teacher; and that occasionally you will be rewarded and your success celebrated.
SYnapse (0 DX)
16 Jul 14 UTC
"I don't really know what's good or bad about Gove"

He scrubbed Steinbeck from the national curriculum because he didn't like it.
Octavious (2701 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
Sadly Gove has been constantly attacked by people such as SYnapse who have no idea what they are talking about.

Gove did no scrub Steinbeck from anything.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/27/michael-gove-denies-ban-of-american-novels-from-gcse
Octavious (2701 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
For those of you who want to know what Gove actually did, a largely fair summary can be found in this Guardian article.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jul/15/michael-gove-controversial-influential-education-secretary

The unions didn't like him because he was an instrument of change and people don't like change. He was, however, a necessity to shake up a system full of flaws. We now need a more calming influence to make sure the best of the changes stick.
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
16 Jul 14 UTC
Oh no, looks like all of the British press have got it wrong about Gove ..... they think he was "ousted", "axed", "knifed", "sacrificed".
Some papers say his reputation among voters cost him, with the Mirror reporting: "Mr Gove was ditched after internal Tory polling suggested he had become a 'hate figure' who could cost the party a second term in government."

Apparently if we listen to Gove, Cameron and Octavious this is not the case at all, he has done a fabulous job and has been promoted to be closer to Cameron to spearhead his election campaign. To children he is teddy bears and candy floss and puppy dogs and chocolates and ice cream, only hated by people jealous of his fabulous success ...... what's that smell, bullshit I think !!
Octavious (2701 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
@ Putin

"Which part are you happiest with? The tripling of education fees or the doubling of the number of children in class sizes of more than 30? Or perhaps the scrapping of the school renovations program? Perhaps the skyrocketing of the drop out rate and the elimination of the EMA?"

Classes when I was at school in the days on Labour rule often had 30 pupils. The main difference between then and now is that classes invariably have both a teacher and teaching assistant present. Discipline is also much improved, for that matter.

Tuition fees is an interesting topic. I'm sure we can agree that University education isn't free, and it has to be paid for somehow. All that has changed is the method of payment moving from general taxation (where people who don't go to uni pay for those that do) to a system where the people that go to uni pay a greater share. The system is designed so you only pay back the fees from your wages after they have exceeded a certain level. Essentially this means that the poor will pay no fees, and most will pay the fees as a small chunk of their wages each month, which acts in much the same way as a tax. I don't see what your problem is.

Regarding the other issues, the government has had to make cuts in no small part because the Labour government took a pretty dire global situation and cunningly manouvred the UK into a really crap position to fight it. It is unfortunate, but there's not a lot that can be done about it.

The drop out rate is high because people not suited to university are pressured into going to university. Simple as that. The huge increase of apprenticeships will go a long way to improve matters.
Putin33 (111 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
When in doubt, scapegoat the unions.

Nevermind the rising drop out rates, the rising classroom sizes, the increase in student fees, the shutting down of renovation programs, the closing down of schools, etc, etc, etc.

Just wave a magic anti-union wand and everybody will be distracted.

I wish the right wouldn't be so predictable. It's boring.
thomas dullan (422 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
(+2)
You may be unsurprised to learn, Octavious, that many do not agree with your assertion that the system was full of flaws. There is no denying that there was some level of ineffective practice, but as one who has examined both educational systems and educational practice in countries proposed as models for the UK, the alleged unalloyed excellence of education elsewhere and the notion of widespread indiscipline in the UK are both myths based on anecdote and ideology.
And even if the system were full of flaws, the model, which Mr Gove and his fellow ideologues propose as an alternative, suffers, itself, from even more grievous shortcomings.
It is a model which sees the 'market place' as a solution to every problem. In the provision of certain types of goods and services, a market place works very efficiently for the benefit of consumers. Not so for an (almost) compulsory school system. In the case of education, parents may apply for a school place, but if (as is often the case) there are insufficient places for all applicants, the supplier (school) chooses the customer (pupil), not (as it ought to be) the other way around. Most usually, that choice takes place on the basis of some covert selection of pupils by ability, which makes it much easier for the school to appear to have raised standards, while pupils of lesser ability have to travel several exhausting and expensive miles to a school of (perceived) lower quality.
Equally importantly, his is a system based on competition between institutions and, via his performance-related pay policy, competition between individuals within institutions. What is needed, by contrast, is an education system based on within-school and inter-institutional collaboration and co-ordination. Mr Gove's ideology is inimical to such concepts.
Put differently, even if one agrees that the system needed a shake-up, Mr Gove's shake-up was the wrong shake-up .
Octavious (2701 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
@ Putin

Exactly where did I scapegoat the unions?
Putin33 (111 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
(+1)
"Classes when I was at school in the days on Labour rule often had 30 pupils."

Did you notice the part where such conditions have increased under Tory rule?

Now classes with 30+ pupils are of no concern, are they? Are you sure you want to go with that line of defense?

"All that has changed is the method of payment moving from general taxation (where people who don't go to uni pay for those that do) to a system where the people that go to uni pay a greater share."

What a clever line! You can use that line to privatize the whole of the public education system. "All that's changed is the system goes from one where people who don't go to school pay for those who do (via taxation) to one where elementary, middle and high schoolers pay a greater share". What nonsense. Of course the "greater share" you're asking millennials to pay for their college education far-and-away exceeds any amount the individual taxpayer contributes to education. But nice dodge on that one.

"The system is designed so you only pay back the fees from your wages after they have exceeded a certain level. Essentially this means that the poor will pay no fees, and most will pay the fees as a small chunk of their wages each month, which acts in much the same way as a tax. "

And that "chunk" is triple the rate university students currently pay. This spin of yours is delightful.

"Regarding the other issues, the government has had to make cuts in no small part because the Labour government took a pretty dire global situation and cunningly manouvred the UK into a really crap position to fight it. It is unfortunate, but there's not a lot that can be done about it."

Yes by all means blame Labour for all these conditions deteriorating. You'll be doing that well into 2025, just like John Major blamed Labour for the Tories' problems in the 1990s, then Labour hadn't been in power since the 70s. It has nothing to do with the fact that your buddies had an ideological motive to make these massive cuts, and have been using Labour as an excuse. Nevermind that these cuts have done nothing to improve the economy, having one of the worst growth rates in the EU.

"The drop out rate is high because people not suited to university are pressured into going to university. Simple as that. "

Of course it has nothing to do with making school more expensive or cutting EMA. That wouldn't be why lower income 16-to-18 years are dropping out in higher numbers. The fact that you have over a million people who are NEET is just because they're "pressure into going to university" and drop out. Right. Simple.






Putin33 (111 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
Octavious,

In two of three posts which you effusively praised Gove, the only information we were provided was some snarky comment about unions and how they hate change. And oh that courageous reformer Gove "achieved a lot" but it was opposed by those unions.
Octavious (2701 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
@ thomas

I never put much store in newspaper headlines over the years saying discipline was a disaster (although it is very true that some schools had serious problems), but everything I've seen shows it has generally improved in the past ten years. How much of that is Gove and how much those who came before him is a matter of debate, but that it is better I don't think is. As far as the quality of education is overseas, I have always felt we hold our own pretty well. This is no reason not to tackle the problems in our own system, such as the inability to do much to improve poor teachers and reward the best, and the habit under the Labour government of watering down the quality of exams.

I respect your view that Goves reforms were the wrong reforms, although generally disagree. I feel that free schools were a mistake, but aside from that he did pretty well. Regardless of that it is clear that he is a man that cares deeply about education and it would be hard to find a more dedicated minister to the future of Britain's children that him. Whether you like him or not, or agree with him or not, you can at least give him that.
Octavious (2701 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
@ Putin

You disagree that the unions were opposed to the changes? You disagree that they disliked Gove? You disagree that they opposed Gove? I assure you I could quite happily attack the teaching unions for some of the actions they've displayed recently, but that wasn't such an attack. That was just statements of the blindingly obvious.
Octavious (2701 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
@ Putin

"You can use that line to privatize the whole of the public education system"

No you can't, because everyone is educated by law up until the age of 18. University is a choice, and it is only right that those who benefit most pay the greatest share.

"It has nothing to do with the fact that your buddies had an ideological motive to make these massive cuts, and have been using Labour as an excuse"

I dare say there are some Tories from certain factions of the Party who would have wanted to make the cuts anyway, but in normal circumstances nothing anywhere like as drastic would have happened. It also does not make the reasons for the cuts any less real.
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
16 Jul 14 UTC
We cannot get common sense from Octo on this issue at the moment as he is so busy defending his party.
Give him time to reflect on the reality of the situation and we may get a more objective view from him of what actually happened here.
Putin33 (111 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
Right, 'blindingly obvious'. Then why mention it? Two posts and you drop the unions in there. For what?

We all know for what.
fulhamish (4134 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
(+1)
Given this article http://www.theguardian.com/education/2010/dec/07/uk-schools-slip-world-rankings, I would say that Michael Gove was, in effect, a whistle blower. He rocked a complacent boat which very much needed rocking.

His major fault, however, was to turn a deaf ear to the reestablishment of widespread grammar school education. In doing so he was protecting the interests of the privately educated elite, who are fearful of any competition for their children which might emanate from that quarter. Just as with the educational establishment, albeit for different reasons, the status quo suits them just fine.
Octavious (2701 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
@ Putin

Yes, because one of the problems in education are strikes by the teaching unions. I mentioned the unions twice. The first was mentioning they were celebrating Goves departure, the hope being that they will stop striking now even though nothing has really changed. The second was mentioning their deep dislike of Gove, which is one of the primary features of Gove's time in office.

I see nothing sinister or underhand about either. Indeed, not mentioning teaching unions when discussing Gove's last position would be extremely odd considering what a high profile role they played.
Putin33 (111 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
"His major fault, however, was to turn a deaf ear to the reestablishment of widespread grammar school education. In doing so he was protecting the interests of the privately educated elite, who are fearful of any competition for their children which might emanate from that quarter."

Or not...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10861027/Grammar-schools-fuelling-gap-between-rich-and-poor.html
Putin33 (111 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
" I mentioned the unions twice."

Yes and that's about all you mentioned.

"Yes, because one of the problems in education are strikes by the teaching unions."

The problems couldn't possibly be the policies which led to the strikes, right? Like creating a bunch of scab schools with unqualified teachers? And how many strikes have occurred? Two?

thomas dullan (422 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
(+2)
I will, if I may, Octavious, take extracts from your blog and respond to each in turn:
"I never put much store in newspaper headlines over the years saying discipline was a disaster (although it is very true that some schools had serious problems), but everything I've seen shows it has generally improved in the past ten years. How much of that is Gove and how much those who came before him is a matter of debate, but that it is better I don't think is."
Yes, there has been a pronounced and sustained improvement in pupil behaviour in schools and that has been going on for much longer than the ten years you propose. It is refreshing to read a right-wing commentator abandoning the 'myth of a golden age' (of youthful behaviour), a myth which has been with us since Ancient Greece. Given that such systemic improvements have medium- to long-term lead-in times, the bulk of the credit has to lie with Mr Gove's several predecessors rather than with him. The underlying causes of the improvement are, for various reasons, difficult to isolate. Unfortunately there is little or no research to support or rebut the hypotheses nor to identify their causes. Among the possibilities are:
[a] the outlawing of leaded petrol which had been evidenced as altering child behaviour;
[b] the abolition of casual and ritualised corporal punishment, which had reinforced and validated rather than eliminated violent pupil behaviour;
[c] a consequential change in teacher behaviour, including a reliance on more exciting curricular content and more developmental pedagogic techniques in place of physical force;
[d] the adoption of a National Curriculum ("NC"), which enabled teachers to shift their efforts from devising new content to the development of their skills and modes of delivery;
[e] the adoption of the associated NC tests, which enabled researchers to identify what pedagogic methods were apt to achieve success; and
[f] a major investment in education in the 2000s which was skilfully invested in providing support staff who could relieve teachers of some of the time-consuming non-pedagogic tasks, which had included, notably, pupil welfare issues and classroom display and reprographics, collecting in money and associated administrative tasks, relieving teachers to perform higher level work.

"As far as the quality of education is overseas, I have always felt we hold our own pretty well. This is no reason not to tackle the problems in our own system, such as the inability to do much to improve poor teachers"
That last phrase is simply ill-informed. School leaders and governors are amply provided with levers and powers to 'improve poor teachers', and they avail themselves of those punitive powers with regularity. What is objectionable is the inadequacy of the investment in the continuing professional development of teachers, the undue emphasis punishment and dismissal (rather than challenge and support) and the speed with which school leaders have recourse to dismissal rather than identification and remediation of the underlying cause(s) of any dip in performance.

"and reward the best",
There have, for many years now, been ample mechanisms for rewarding success. The trouble with the most recent proposals is that they are covert and apt to operate in a discriminatory manner.

"and the habit under the Labour government of watering down the quality of exams."
This, too, is un-evidenced. In fact, the system has built-in checks to ensure that the standard of work required to achieve a given grade remains the same from one year to the next. In what other area of employment or activity is it seen as evidence of collective failure to have achieved, as instructed, year on year, higher and higher levels of pupil outcomes, only to be told by one's political masters and by their friends, the press barons, that the evidence of their success was, in fact, a demonstration of their failure?

"I respect your view that Goves reforms were the wrong reforms, although generally disagree. I feel that free schools were a mistake, but aside from that he did pretty well."
'Free schools' were the central plank, which you acknowledge as a mistake. So, what is the basis of your assertion that he 'did pretty well'? In relation to what policy threads? Against what criteria? All I see is that he succeeded in alienating those on whom he necessarily had to rely to deliver his reforms, whatever they may have been.

"Regardless of that it is clear that he is a man that cares deeply about education and it would be hard to find a more dedicated minister to the future of Britain's children that him. Whether you like him or not, or agree with him or not, you can at least give him that."
Mr Gove introduced reforms which reduced the period of time for a teacher to redeem him/herself from perceived failure was as little as four weeks. In the education service which he was elected to lead, a man who "cares deeply about education and it would be hard to find a more dedicated teacher to the future of Britain's children that him" would, if he had completely alienated those in his charge and had relentlessly pursued mistaken policy initiatives, be dismissed within four weeks. Why was he given four years to wreak such havoc? I do not dislike the man. I despised his facile and dismissive description of his opponents expert in education as 'the blob'. Even more did I despise his implacable pursuit of dangerously mistaken policies.
Octavious (2701 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
You clearly have more time to dedicate to this debate than I do :p.

Still, you experience seems strangely different from mine. It was not newspapers or politicians from whom I got the notion that exams were becoming easier. It was from the teachers at my school. It was from the professors at my university. It was from looking back over decades of past papers and seeing it for myself.

Yes, there are measures in place to stop it happening, but they are measures that simply didn't work. I work in the public sector. I am well acquainted with measures designed to stop things happening that fail utterly. They are depressingly common.

Still, your position is quite clear and I dare say there is little chance of me changing your mind, so I will leave it there. It has been refreshing to talk to reasonable voice on the matter.

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68 replies
SantaClausowitz (360 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
Best Grand Strategy Computer Game
Had a good discussion yesterday, I figured we can explore another topic.
32 replies
Open
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
Mod Team Announcement Part 1 of 2
goldfinger0303 is stepping down as an Admin, as he no longer has the time to visit the site. 2ndWhiteLine has been promoted to an Admin to fill goldfinger0303's role. So thank you goldie for the years of moderating, and thank you 2nd for agreeing to the extra workload.
25 replies
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tvrocks (388 D)
17 Jul 14 UTC
16 hour phase gunboat
gameID=144690 join now.
1 reply
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ssorenn (0 DX)
15 Jul 14 UTC
Watches or timepieces
Does anyone here collect, watches or timepieces?
131 replies
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