Krellin, I just gave a pretty clear reason. Maybe read what I wrote?

@Chaqa
Maniac - That case is some weak shit.
ILN - His play strikes me more as nooby than scummy, but I'd be willing to vote him over my town reads if it came to that.
You - Your reads were hedged, the Maniac case was weak, and the lurking is annoying, but you always play like this, so I'm not feeding you as super scummy. Like ILN, I would be willing to vote.
Krellin - Actually proposing legitimate ideas now, even if I disagree with him. I find his continued nihilistic stance on reading other players very suspicious. Like the other two, would vote.

nihilistic: "rejecting all religious and moral principles in the belief that life is meaningless."

oooooo-kay. thanks ghug...uhhhh...you are projecting your inner turmoil onto others, are you not?

Krellin, if I thought you were mafia, I'd have voted for you. I'm trying to convince you that you are making yourself look *terrible* and you've done it at least four times so far.

"How better than to not Be considered a threat than to propose a common voting strategy (i.e. lurker hunt) and then give up the authority of my vote to someone else as long as they go after a lurker"

This isn't giving up the authority of your vote. You are looking at the vote tally and seeing that you are in trouble, and in order to get yourself out of trouble, you're trying to use your vote into baiting someone into starting a bandwagon against a lurker, which provides us absolutely nothing from our day one lynch. Ghug basically said exactly that.

"You will also note I have gone from no lynch to voting. Yes, a change."

It's equally likely that you realized you weren't going to get a no-lynch day and decided that continuing to push for it would only make you look worse. You'd be correct, by the way, it would have.

"But as I have proposed a solid strategy"

You haven't. If you had, you might have a case here, but regardless, giving your vote away to someone else is a ridiculous play because it links you to them in the future (and you said it yourself, you don't know who is what right now, maybe you're linking yourself to the wrong person). I already explained why giving your vote away conditionally is not a town strategy.

@ghug ... are you still pushing for Squigs? If that BW can't garner more support, we need to be sure we don't end up with a tie on day one or a scenario where the mafia can control who gets lynched.

@ghug - targeting lurkers helps the govt massively as it nips the practice in the bud. Lurkers are forced to step up to the plate for fear of being shot. On a meta level it would be good policy to kill the lurkers early. Whilst it may not provide much info if they flip govt, the pressure on everyone else to post increases the information available.

Bo - I'm not dead set on Chaqa. I'm kind of resigned to not hitting a reptile or Mutant today. I think the govt just hasn't got its act together. We have allowed too many people to do too little. I'd love to be able to say with confidence that Chaqa or krellin is non-human. I can't - which means I'm gunning for non-humans first, but if we hit someone who I don't think is contributing to the team in the process, then I won't shed any tears.

People I won't miss are krellin, chaqa, y2, WD and ILN. But I'd prob give ILN benefit of doubt.

ghug says: "Targeting lurkers is bad though. They give limited info if they flip guilty and they're likely to be killed by mod, vig, or town-friendly SK. "

Bullshit. Mod-killed? nonsense. Lurking is a mafia strategy, and assuming everyone lurkign is going to quit is just complete and utter BULLSHIT.
Vig killed? You hope...more likely Vig will kill people he thinks are true threats, rather than randomly shooting at lurkers. this is just wishful thinking.
Limited info if they flip guilty? EVERYONE on Day 1 wil give you limited info if they fkip guilty, thus TODAY is the best day to get the same limited info when someone flips. Nobody has ANY strong ties right now, so there is no great "Oh, Mouthy-Talker flipped guilty, and he is clearly tied to A and B". How stupid do you think the mafia are????

You argument is compelte bullshit. Today is the BEST day to hunt for lurkers.

You claim that all information is meaningless and refuse to post reads on people because of it. That's nihilistic. Then you do things like voting for me for questioning your ideas and criticizing PJ for not giving good enough reasons for his vote on you. Contradiction number five.

Lol @krellin - he's gone from saying he won't vote to voting for everyone. Hope the guy tracking this can keep up.

Bo - I'm not making myself look terrible. I am making myself look terrible *TO YOU*...which I don't realyl care about. You like to play the "I dont' have much experience...so I really don't know card..." and yet then turn around and offer solid opinoins. So what is it...are you a confused noob? Or do you have a strong grasp on what is going on? Mr Contradiction himself....

One could call YOUR behavior suspicious, Bo...you are a smart boy, so you need to act the roll of smart boy, and not play the "I'm such a nooob" card.

Regardless - that you don't understand my strategy, and if you can't see that I am provoking conversation -- which is needed to get a read on people - then, again, I can't help you.

Maniac - I have explained my behavior. You put too much credence in Day 1 bullshit.

Ghug - I have explanations for my supposed contradictions. You, though...Mr Lurker...who has time to argu nonsense with me, but not to contribute over the past two days. In the past you were a mouthy little fart....not you are so timid and short on words? tsk tsk...such a dramatic change in behavior surely has a purpose...

Keep trying to rail-road me, silent lurking lizardman....

##VOTE GHUG

Thank you for actually arguing, krellin. It's much better than the hypocrisy of voting for me for daring to disagree with you while whining about people voting for you because they disagree with you.

Your entire argument is based off of the premise that lurkers will be mafia. History doesn't support this. Lurkers tend to be new players and those who are busy. In one game, a big lurker happened to be mafia, but that hasn't been true elsewhere. If they continue to lurk, I hope the vig will be smart enough to target them at night and vote for scumreads during the day. If that doesn't happen, strategy will have to be revised, but until then I don't see any reason to waste our lynches on lurkers.

Could you please post reads now?

Maniac JUST SAID " I'm not dead set on Chaqa. I'm kind of resigned to not hitting a reptile or Mutant today"

HE IS PERFECTLY FINE, and WANTS to hit a non-reptile.

WTF, why is no one voting for this?

Krellin, first things first, Chaqa already posted some information regarding the mafia in the first three games and how often they posted that I think is pretty important. It seems to me that while yeah, mafia *could* lurk, people look for lurkers, as you have this whole time, and as such, mafia are just as likely to post a lot. By that logic alone, you and I are just as likely to be mafia as someone that hasn't been posting a lot thus far. That's why when deciding these things we don't use "that logic alone" and instead put all the pieces together.

What you're proving right now is that you a) are having a lot of trouble changing your processes when clearly a better way has been proposed, which could be harmful in the long run, b) a lack of flexibility toward other play styles, c) a serious tendency to contradict yourself, and d) relatedly, strange play #6, when Chaqa provides analysis that counters your claim, you ignore it and continue on your merry way, expecting me not to notice.

I'm not by any means ready to say that you're mafia, and I still don't think you are, but your play so far is so erratic that even if you end up sticking around another day, I have zero confidence in what you're trying to do.

@chaqa -I'll type this slowly as I figure you don't read too quick.

I don't think day one has gone well for the govt. There are no certain non- humans we can confidently shoot. I'll still try to shoot non- humans but if I shoot a govt official who I think hasn't help us find the non- humans, then so be it. Non-humans and those who don't help govt are not necessarily different species.

Krelly, I made it clear before the game started that I wouldn't have web access until Sunday evening. Is that your entire argument against me?

Reads, please.

##vote chaqa

This will prob be my last action today. I'm a landlord and really need to see one of my Tennants tonight. They have just called to say one of their windows has fallen out. They're a good hour away so will struggle to get back before cut off. Good luck.

ghug - it is long past Sunday evening, my boy....lonnnnng past sunday evening.

I used that sort fo excuse when I was scum, too, and wanted to hide for a while.. heh heh...

Seriously krellin, he posted last night. That was Sunday evening.

It's well past Sunday evening, and I've been talking plenty since I got back. I made this clear before roles were assigned. You're just using it to deflect attention off of yourself, and I don't like it.

Reads, please.

bo - when I was scum, there were 4 of us, and two of the mafia were super-lurkers, by design. There is a reason there is a name for lurking - becaus it is a MAFIA STRATEGY. You can stick your head in the sand and pretend that it isn't so, but that doesn't change reality.

So you all have your opinion about the value of lurker hunting, and I have my opinion. Key word: OPINION. Get it? Got it? Good.

In the absence of ANY other *factual* data on the board, I will vote for a lurker. Words at this point in the game are mostly meaningless - toughest kid on the block trying to push others around to his way of thining. Any voting based upon words at this point is foolish idioicy - IMO. The only *fact* I have right now is the comparison of post counts - this is hard data, and I suspect that one of the lower three posters is a mafia. It is my OPINION, based upon past observation.

krellin, do post some reads.

ghug - you are FAR from your former talkative self. Reads please

I'm being talkative now, krell. I posted reads last night, and I'm currently rereading Squigs to build a stronger case. Reads please.

Just went back and reviewed today -- ghug supposed talkative self ONLY came out today once he became a target. Reactionary defensive talk from the lurking lizard.

I stand by my assertion that he is suspicious of being a lurking lizard....and chaqa is his defender. Got it...we've tied Chaqa and Ghug together.

Alright krellin, ignore the part where I said I woke up. Ignore all of the talking last night. Ignore the fact that your standing is so low that pressure from you isn't really pressure.

You're avoiding intentionally, and it's getting tiring.

You figured us out. Well done, A+. ghug and I are reptile lovers posing as the President's dogs.

Day 1 Vote Count Update 4

krellin (3): pjmansfield99, uclabb, ILN
Squigs44 (3): ghug, semck83, bo_sox48
ILN (3): Squiggs44, guak
semck83(1): y2kjbk
Maniac(1): Chaqa
Ghug(1): krellin
Chaqa(1): Maniac

Not voting (2) captainmeme (set to mod killed/replaced), WardenDresden
Currently NO ONE is set to be lynched!

2 hours and 30 minutes remain.

Remember if you don't vote you will be mod killed or replaced.

@Chaqa and Maniac ... unless you are going to try to build a better case, you two would be better served trying to break the try.

##CALL GM .. ILN should have 2 on that update, not 3. The numerical column adds up to 13 while the names only add up to 12 with two non-votes so far.

I'll change off of Maniac near 7. He's my top scum and ideally I'd get him lynched.