Maybe it's just suggested because it gives you an edge. ;-) From the sound of it, if a girl interested in you demanded to pay for the first few meals you'd be flat on the floor kowtowing her.

Human beings have been hard-wired through hundreds of thousands of years of evolution in a way that one or two generations of feminist propaganda cannot undo.

Another reason why

"I'd prefer a new edition Of the Spanish Inquisition than to ever let A Woman In My Life!"

I think it still comes down tot he differences between men and women.

Offering to pay is saying, "I can take care of you." I don't feel like exploring the deeper psychology of that at the moment - suffice to say that traditional gender roles are still embraced even in this age of psuedo-equality.

I don't take girls out to dinner. I cook for them. Costs less and it's way more impressive. Plus, they're already at my house.

JECE- Exactly, women should want an edge with me I'm a catch, let them pay!

AverageWhiteBoy- How the hell do you convince them to come alone to your place for a first date?

Because men still want sex from women and empowered women are in a position of power in a relationship, especially in its testing stages. If you were a woman, would you actually turn down that payment? After a while it becomes blatantly exploitative and that's why you don't have to pay beyond a certain point, but before, you do.

Not all women are that way but since some are and you never know and can't ask till you're past the paying point anyway, there you are.

That's my idea about it. It might go away one day, but not today. Our kids' generation perhaps?

And yeah the "taking care of you" thing is big, even though the form it takes here is posturing bullshit. Women still, on the whole, want men to "take care of them" even if that no longer means financially in practice, and men, on the whole (I think) want to feel that they are "taking care of." These days that takes so many forms as to become meaningless, but couples still seem to want to feel that that's what's happening.

Maybe I'm wrong but that's the sense I get.

So you are saying women don't want sex? That is false.

At the beginning of a relationship, women (generally) want a clean, stable relationship. Men want to cut right to the chase. I guess it's just normality that a man pays for a little while. That's a generalization, but it's usually the case.

You have to pay for everything if you both think you do. It's a self-inflicted wound.

Please end the genderalization. See what I did there?

Gotta prove you ain't no scrub.

"I'd prefer a new edition Of the Spanish Inquisition than to ever let A Woman In My Life!"

obi, while I acknowledge the results are almost invariably negative, I'd recommend giving A Woman in Your Life a try at least once. If nothing else, they will improve your skill at writing dramatic scenes, helping you to imagine overwhelming dramatic tension where there logically should be none.

Oh trust me, women want sex....but not all women want it the same way....

Find out the weaknesss. ;D

A lot of girls are used to having a man pay for the first couple of dates because a lot of girls' parents told them to expect it when they were children. If its the third or fourth date, she probably won't mind if you ask to split the bill.

I'm just not that kind of a person though, Tolstoy...

I know I'm not loving, and not emotional in that sense, or romantic in that sense...

Or even have a desire to be, I prefer cold logic and hot rhetoric, whichever is needed for the situation and for me at that moment.



In anything else, I'll at least try it, even if I don't think I'd be good at it...

But since I don't believe in love (and that's sort of a necessary precursor, I'd think, to having a woman in your life...well, at least in a "good" way) or any of that, and it'd hurt me, the other person, or both if I fail, which every indicator points towards...I'd rather not...it's just not me, or who I am, I can't see that ever happening, at all...

If it does happen, great, I'll embrace it and roll with it, I guess--

But I'm not pressing the issue or looking for trouble (as I see it) in the meantime.

"So you are saying women don't want sex? That is false."

Women do want sex, but with the right guy. They're far more choosy than men because most of their selection criteria are hard-wired by nature. <A guy who will care for them and who will stick around to raise the kids *they* have to carry and then raise> is the main one, even if, for pseudo-political reasons, they wouldn't want to have to admit that, even to themselves.

Really we're dealing with her instinct versus his conscious calculation. Ticking all those boxes in her head may not make her sleep with him, but *not* ticking those boxes will drop his chances to zero**, though she may not be able to say why she decided he wasn't the one for her.

** - except when there's alcohol involved (http://www.laughparty.com/funnypicture/Liqiud-Panty-Remover/62/).

"I know I'm not loving, and not emotional in that sense, or romantic in that sense ... I prefer cold logic and hot rhetoric, whichever is needed for the situation and for me at that moment."
ObiwanObiwan *is* House.

The whole thing is stupid really. Sure, I'm fine with paying, but determining who pays shouldn't be an issue at all. If she wants me, she had better be willing to pay, and vice versa.

I guess that makes me a prostitute...

If every woman tells me to piss off because I'm not going to pay for everything, then I'll die a virgin. IDGAF. However, most women I've talked to would be happy to split the bill.

Get married and you'll pay all the time. What's mine is hers and what's hers is hers. And no, that wasn't a typo. :-D

Why do men still have to pay?
Because they can

"So you are saying women don't want sex? That is false."

Lol who the fuck said that?

Anyway SpeakerToAliens is right. They want sex just as much, it's just that they want that sex to be with specific kinds of people.

Men just mostly want sex, and don't care alll that much about who it's with.

When I finally figured this out everything made so much more sense.

Same sex dating FTW! How old are you Santa? When I was in my early 20's (3-4 years ago) and still dating ladies, they would totally split the cheque even while making it clear that we would totally be doing this again. And my female friends now pay the cheques when they go on dates, or they alternate with their dates, he gets one date, she gets the next one and so on. It also might be a cultural thing. In a lot of restaurants where I live, the waiter will just bring you two cheques without even asking. And places that don't do that will always ask "Together or separate?" And you kinda look at each other and then one of you awkwardly makes a decision and then subtly indicates what this means. I dunno.

Early twenties is different from mid twenties. I used to split with the rationale that I don't have any income. Now I have a job and supposedly i don't have an excuse.

I found dating/meeting people in late teen / early twenties to be a big chore dining etc... but by then your brain hasn't figured out they want sex as much as you and you can generally tell... paying has always generally been split (or they at least try to pay) but I've always generally paid full as I was the one who invited them out. If they then invited you somewhere I think its expected that they then pay.

However after been in a long term rel for 4 years that broke up, i found out (mid twenties) that dating is very easy, coffee shop talk a bit 'come home watch movie' and its generally with in the first week... or night.... but i guess its cause everyones a bit older and less tense about the whole situation...

I do however love this line from above
"If nothing else, they will improve your skill at writing dramatic scenes, helping you to imagine overwhelming dramatic tension where there logically should be none"

Nothing can be further from the truth... current GF is having a massive whine at me cause I'm going to spend time with my mates in Sydney for 2 days before coming to see her for 2 days long weekend... In reality she wants me to see her whole 4 dayS!!! WTF

My Rant - End! :D

I'd add that it's important how you pay the bill. You should do it in a way that says "I'm so cool that these things mean nothing to me," possibly paying when she goes to the toilet. Paying always impresses girls, but saying "it's already been taken care of" impresses them even more. They'll take the greatest care not to show it, though.

Of course, paying the bill is nowhere as important as listening to her chatter during the dinner, asking questions that show that you're paying attention, and making clever comments that make her feel good about herself. It's absolutely essential. If you do it right, she won't fall for you only if she isn't physically attracted, and you can't do anything about that anyway.

Largeham, I thought you were married...?

Actually, most of my female friends have mentioned that they prefer just splitting the bill for dates. I keep telling them they should take the money and run, but I guess they're just nicer people than I would be.

Can you hear that?

It's the world's smallest violin playing for the jews complaining about money.

(Oh, and thank you for your contribution obi-eunuch. It's always valuable to read a weirdo's point of view regarding women)