Old Forum - webDiplomacy

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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.

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king daniel the best (0

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08 May 12 UTC

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Join this game-- Quick!

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=88339

2 replies

rokakoma (19138

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07 May 12 UTC

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rokakoma's 7k challange

Time to create the next 7k challenge

28 replies

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08 May 12 UTC

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Where can I see the Game ID? And how does one resign?

I did check the FAQ before posting this thread, but didn't find answers.

About Game ID, I've seen people pasting a game ID in such a way that it appears as a link in a message. Where do I see the Game ID, and how do I copy and paste it in such a way?

11 replies

footballflirt (0

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08 May 12 UTC

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MOD need help!!!

Game ID 61430. This game I am in has been paused for almost 300 days and most of the players have disappeared. I was wondering if it could be unpaused or even better, forcefully drawn. I would just like my points from the game.

1 reply

President Eden (2750

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07 May 12 UTC

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If any moderators are online, please check the mod email now if at all possible.

Strongly suspect cheating in a live game and would really appreciate being able to salvage it if possible.

21 replies

abgemacht (1076

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08 May 12 UTC

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Please welcome our new mod

Please join me in welcoming zultar as our newest mod!

20 replies

(B)

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06 May 12 UTC

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Continuing education...

Or what i forgot while not using it.

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(B)

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08 May 12 UTC

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EoG: 101 Gunboatz

gameID=88270
BJC27, you make me sick.

11 replies

smcbride1983 (517

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30 Apr 12 UTC

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Satanic Verses Discussion Group

Howdy. I am going to start reading Satanic Verses, and wanted to see if anyone wanted to do a book club type deal. We could read along and discuss what we think about it in the forum.

31 replies

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06 May 12 UTC

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Favourite Wines

Can we make a list of all the favourite wines people have on this website? Let's try.

44 replies

obiwanobiwan (248

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06 May 12 UTC

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This Time On Philosophy, Erm, Whenever--The Club of Ideas and Intellect: What's In/Out?

On the heels of that "Daily Bible Reading" thread and the impersonations (Mujus, I invite you and your followers along into this thread) and many have ridiculed the arguments made therein as illogical--myself included. It seems, more than ever, that there's a divide, in these amateur ranks and in the "professional" ranks, as to what is viewed as properly intellectual. So! What views and theories are intellectually "valid," in your view, and which are bunkum?

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obiwanobiwan (248 )
06 May 12 UTC

I'll start by listing:

Intelligent Design and Young Earth theories...

I'm sorry, but if you hold those views, I don't see how you can really be viewed as part of the mature scientific debate and discourse going on in the 21st century when even little me, with just too many hours watching documentaries and lectures on YouTube and a handful of science classes in college (once I get my BA and go for my Masters in English, I think I WILL try and go back and take more Bio, I really love it, I just don't have time to take Bio classes as a hobby with an English major and a PoliSci minor, but someday I'll revisit it, Biology isn't going anywhere, after all) can see the flaws in those arguments and just how poorly they're made.

So, those are the safe ones...

I suppose if I wanted to get more adventurous:

Teaching the Bible as an example of "good" literature (good and bad are subjective to a great degree in literature, but even structurally, if ever a book were to fail, it's the Bible) and...

I'll go ahead and give Putin the chance to respond on this, as I'm sure he will once I say this--

But I'd argue that pushing for Communism AS IT HAS BEEN IMPLEMENTED THUS FAR--I'll leave that huge qualifier in, as while I deplore the theory on the whole, I'd agree that at the very least someone could try and remake the theory into something perhaps better or more feasible and workable--is something of a failed doctrine as well...

Again, not necessarily Communism ITSELF--though I myself don't see it ever working and even if someone could get it to work I find the system and Marx's ultimate goals deplorable--but if someone wanted to implement it that way it was already attempted in failed states such as the USSR or, even better, would argue for North Korea's model...I'd cringe and call foul.

Putin33 (111 )
06 May 12 UTC

Bashing M-L is 'adventurous'?

Putin33 (111 )
06 May 12 UTC

I'm a firm believer that in order to critique a theory, you have to have an alternative one. Oppositionism & cynicism are not theories, nor is craven political moderation. These seem to be the most popular political 'opinions' out there these days.

Yellowjacket (835 )
06 May 12 UTC

Moderation is craven? You don't have to be an extremist to have a valid ideology, Putin.

Putin33 (111 )
06 May 12 UTC

No, but you have to pick a side.

Crazy Anglican (1067 )
06 May 12 UTC

I did not know that we shared the same area of study, Obi.

Teaching Bible as literature is hardly controversial, but first let me be clear. Are you saying that teaching it is not right, or that it isn't a good example of literature?

semck83 (229 )
06 May 12 UTC

lol. I don't really see a need to predetermine who is worthy to partake in intelligent discourse. I'll happily talk to a flat earther any day. I just think I'll have really good arguments that will typically leave him flat. But there doesn't have to be some standard or bar to measure up to to even enter a discussion. Any idea or position should be entertained a priori, no matter how crazy.

But assuming for the moment that one accepts the odd suggestion that ideas should be pre-judged, the Bible as literature would certainly seem an ODD one to judge. Plenty of literature professors, even, would accept it as seminal, great western literature. They might be wrong, but to call them so crazy as to be ruled out of the discussion seems a little premature. I've seen your arguments on this point, of course, and they were fairly incoherent (they all went to judging it as true, not judging it as literature).

Sargmacher (0 )
06 May 12 UTC

"I'm a firm believer that in order to critique a theory, you have to have an alternative one. Oppositionism [...] [is not a theory]."

Lol. Right. Ok.

Putin33 (111 )
06 May 12 UTC

?

Crazy Anglican (1067 )
06 May 12 UTC

@semck83

Um, my arguments? I'm not aware that I've made any about this subject in quite a while.

Sargmacher (0 )
06 May 12 UTC

In order to critique a theory you HAVE to have an opposite theory. Opposition is not a theory.

semck83 (229 )
06 May 12 UTC

CrazyAnglican, sorry, I was talking to Obiwan. I should have made that clear, sorry.

Obiwan, for example, has made the argument that the Bible is bad literature because the morality it teaches is flawed. I, of course, happen to disagree, but even if I agreed with the premise, I would disagree with the conclusion, and would think it rather silly. There are plenty of magnificent books that teach terrible morality. The other arguments were similar.

semck83 (229 )
06 May 12 UTC

So, putin -- was it wrong to oppose the luminiferous ether before Special Relativity, even after Michelson and Morley discredited it? Is it wrong now to oppose string theory, even though I don't have a theory of my own?

Or is it only in politics that this strange doctrine holds?

Sargmacher (0 )
06 May 12 UTC

No, you must oppose anything that is theoretical to begin to qualify it. But opposition itself is not theorectical. Therefore you must not superficially oppose theories just because you must oppose anything that is theoretical. You have to oppose theory to qualify them so that you can oppose that theory and the one opposing the theory you are qualifying. But the question is do you need a third theory to critique the oppositional theory you are using to critique the first - or do you just oppose the first two? And if you DO need a third, do you need a fourth? Which theory came first? If every theory necessitates an oppositional one? ARghhhahgtah!

semck83 (229 )
06 May 12 UTC

I'm afraid that went over my poor head, Sarge.

Sargmacher (0 )
06 May 12 UTC

That's because I am Putin33 and most times everyone eats up what I say without scrutinising it. The only people that scrutinise it are ultras like Invictus who no one really listens to anyway. Thus I can say whatever I like, even if it's crap.

If you see a cow you have to eat a burger.

Putin33 (111 )
06 May 12 UTC

Somebody broke Sargmacher again.

Anyway it's not quite the same in science, but even in science the discovery of some null hypothesis is quickly followed by new theories. In politics people hide behind the idea that so long as they criticize everything, or don't appear to have any strong opinions, they're 'reasonable' and 'morally pure'. It's the coward's value system. Criticize everything, do nothing.

Sargmacher (0 )
06 May 12 UTC

lol.

beep beep beep.

Putin33 (111 )
06 May 12 UTC

The bug up your ass must be enormous. Leave it to you to make everything personal, yet again.

semck83 (229 )
06 May 12 UTC

Well, I don't know, Putin. It seems to me that you're mixing up descriptive and proscriptive statements here. For example, you say, "even in science the discovery of some null hypothesis is quickly followed by new theories." That's a descriptive statement. You don't say it HAS to be, or that one SHOULD NOT criticize a theory without having one ready to replace it. (A very reasonable position on your part, obviously).

On the other hand, why not just say that, well, it's not that way in politics -- new theories dont' come along as quickly when one is discredited? Why would that mean that one SHOULD NOT discredit a political theory without a replacement? To me it just seems foolhardy to rush along carrying on a theory that has been ably discredited just because one doesn't have another theory yet to replace it. Of course, one might make the point that even inaction is action, so one would then have to judge whether inaction was even more discredited than the particular flawed theory in question. But that's quite another question.

Sargmacher (0 )
06 May 12 UTC

Aw. Your toys are out of the pram. I didn't realise.

Then, fine. I stand by my tirade. "I'm a firm believer that in order to critique a theory, you have to have an alternative one. Oppositionism [...] [is not a theory]." This is bullshit.

semck83 (229 )
06 May 12 UTC

(I mean prescriptive, not proscriptive, obviously).

Sargmacher (0 )
06 May 12 UTC

Also, my 'beep beep beep' comment was to immitate a broken toy. I imagine in America it might just mean blanked out swear words - which is perhaps why you reacted bitterly, thinking I was mock-swearing at you. Unless of course you want to protest that such a reading wouldn't apply to you because you don't live in America, you live with the free people in North Korea.

Sargmacher (0 )
06 May 12 UTC

How like you to be adversarial ;)

greysoni (160 )
06 May 12 UTC

I don't think you need to have an opposing theory to criticize a theory. Your opposition can based on the use of fallacious generalizations, faulty logic and so on. this does not require a competing idea.

Sargmacher (0 )
06 May 12 UTC

Note how fast Putin33 always responds, despite having one hand perpetually fixed round his cock as he masturbates to pictures of Gramsci.

Putin33 (111 )
06 May 12 UTC

Science is different because it doesn't aim to advance particular values, at least overtly. The data takes a person to certain conclusions. You cannot go into an experiment with a preconceived notion what the outcome will be. (Insert Fulham's rants here).

Politics is different because it requires a value-system to determine what the optimal outcomes are. Critics need to have a value-system of their own in order to judge whether or not another one is sub-optimal. In science you determine a theory is incorrect if it doesn't lead to the predicted result. You're comparing apples & oranges.

And I would say even if you come up with a null hypothesis, you need a skeleton of what alternative explanations would look like. You can't simply say: 'experiment failed'. Very few experiments which are of that sort are significantly informative.

Putin33 (111 )
06 May 12 UTC

"Note how fast Putin33 always responds, despite having one hand perpetually fixed round his cock as he masturbates to pictures of Gramsci."

I have no use for Gramsci you vulgar little twit.

semck83 (229 )
06 May 12 UTC

I don't know, Putin. There are very famous null results in the history of science which did not at all have an implied alternative interpretation associated to them. That was for later theorists, typically (or, in a few cases, it just remains a mystery).

"Politics is different because it requires a value-system to determine what the optimal outcomes are. Critics need to have a value-system of their own in order to judge whether or not another one is sub-optimal."

OK, but that still seems descriptive. For example, the value system could just be, implicitly, "We should only do what makes logical sense and what hasn't been shown to fail," and then that would appear to consist, in practice, just of criticisms of other theories without an alternative theory in its place.

Putin33 (111 )
06 May 12 UTC

"How like you to be adversarial ;)"

Hey doctor, heal thyself.

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136 replies

rokakoma (19138

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06 May 12 UTC

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Fair and Balanced-3 - EOG

13 replies

TheFlyingBoat (2743

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08 May 12 UTC

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Andorran Co-Prince Elections

What effect on Andorra do you think the election of Hollande shall have?

3 replies

(S)

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07 May 12 UTC

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Double Songs

There are these songs that I listened to on the radio growing up, but then when I got the album found out they were really two songs, but they were always played together on the radio.

28 replies

jwalters93 (288

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05 May 12 UTC

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Word association.

Post the first word that comes into your head after reading the last post.

5 replies

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01 May 12 UTC

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F2F Cincy... - If more people don't sign up on fortknox's website, it ain't happening.

We only have fortknox, myself, and two others at this point and we can't be trying to reserve a venue at the last minute in Cincinnati. They get booked up in advance...

So what's that URL, fortknox?

62 replies

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07 May 12 UTC

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How about a quick Ancient Med live game for newbs?

Just started my first Ancient Med game, but thought it might be fun to try a quick live one. Join in!
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=88288

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(B)

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07 May 12 UTC

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Folk wisdom - hunting the chimp

See inside.

4 replies

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06 May 12 UTC

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Time Travel is hard.

If Time Travel did exists then it would be the hardest thing ever.

13 replies

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07 May 12 UTC

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[MAY] Face-to-Face Diplomacy in NYC!

After taking a brief self-imposed vacation from all things non-academic in April, I'm now getting back to organizing games this May. The schedule is tight but we can squeeze some stuff in here. For the sake of keeping things easy I'm just going to copy and paste the message I sent out to my email list here (PM me with your email address if you'd like to be put on the list, or if you didn't get the email for some reason):

3 replies

(B)

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06 May 12 UTC

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For Your Information...

I'm a huge socialist...

(more inside)

33 replies

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07 May 12 UTC

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LA KINGS, doin it big

Stoked that the team I have been routing for since a wee-child is finally having a killer season. 4-1 over the #1 seed, 4-0 over the #2 seed, Phoenix will be next.

Anyone care to offer predictions for the cup?

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(B)

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06 May 12 UTC

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I need a physicist...

(and before anyone points out that i AM a physicist, i need a better physicist than me)

See inside...

48 replies

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06 May 12 UTC

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EOG زورق مدفعية

12 replies

(S)

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07 May 12 UTC

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Replacement or sitter needed for triathlon

Goldfinger is going to be away for a little while and would like a sitter or replacement for his triathlon games. Wod anyone be willing to take over a PP or FP game (or both would be even better)

3 replies

Thucydides (864

(B)

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05 May 12 UTC

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Serious question here

I'm honestly trying to think of a place where one can talk about sex without putting on airs.

62 replies

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07 May 12 UTC

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Srs question here

I have a question about sex but I feel like it might be too weird to ask my friends about it or post it here lol but I will ask anyway once I remember what the question is.

3 replies

S.E. Peterson (100

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07 May 12 UTC

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gunboat live-40 EOG

http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=88208

Such bullshit.

0 replies

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06 May 12 UTC

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Abortion

With the new discussions in parliament regarding freeing up restrictions on abortion to allow any length of term to be aborted, what do people here think about this? Obviously abortion in itself has been discussed before, so let's keep this specific to the new discussion on no-limit abortion rights.

30 replies

Bob Genghiskhan (1238

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06 May 12 UTC

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EOG for Live Gunboat 210

gameID=88170

Sorry I NMR'd that one turn, my internet malfunctioned for a couple of minutes there and I couldn't get my orders in.

5 replies

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