Ok, before the players are all signed up, I'd like to hear suggestions for 'Gunboat Diplomacy' ie what moves or support holds can each country use as a signal to another country of their intent. For new players/observers of this variant I'm thinking something like {Ven Support Hold Tri} obviously tri isn't under threat but this signals to austria that Italy is friendly. I need suggestions for each country as some of the actual players may be new to this concept.

Just 1 more spot left and we can get started.

england can open north or south to indicate his intentions to france.

@Orathaic - could you be specific we have some newbie players on board

Ad we're off and running. Turkey has been the first to enter provisional moves, but what is he going to do with the Black Sea? Move there? Support Sev there? Does that signal to the other players that a juggernaut could be underway?

England has also entered provisional moves. In the regular games discussions would have been held with France about the Eng Channel but can england risk keeping out of the channel and allowing france to occupy it so early in the game?

Feel free to jump in guys whether you are in the game or not; I can provide commentary but I'd like this to be a bit more interactive

France is gearing up for a fight, hoping for a northern opening by the English! A move to Piedmont would openly declare a western triple, else on of his other neighbors decides to move in!
You could cut the tension between Venice and Trieste with a butter knife!

As Switzerland, I'll first advert you all that it's useless to attack me. France, be nice to Germany and attack England. England, be nice to France and attack Germany. Germany, be nice to everyone else and attack Russia. Russia, roll over and die... I mean, be nice to Austria and attack Turkey, and England too, if you have the time. Turkey, encroach and wait for a slow death... I mean, be nice to Russia and attack Austria. Austria, be nice to everyone else and stop the Juggernaut even if there is not one. Italy, go kamikaze and attack all your three closest neighbors at once!

@Mongoose998 - I also sense that tension between Venice and Trieste that you so accurately describe. Perhaps Ven-tri would signal to austria that Italy wants to play a key Lapento?

I think that would signal to Austria that Italy wants him dead. If he pulls the regular formation, He would most likely get bounced out of Serbia, dislodged in Trieste, and become a major setback for Austria. Combine all that with a Jugg.... not good for the SSE

well i'll feel free to advocate on behalf of the english channel.

england can guarentee norway with a northern opening. (lon - north sea, edi - norwegian sea) and can guarentee the london is safe with lvp - york)

in the worst case where france takes english channel AND moves an army into a position to convoy to london/wales, then york can cover wales and north sea can cover london.

However this is only in germany's best interest. France can still pick up spain/portugal, or have a say on belguim with his army marseilles. (depending on itlay not opening to piedmont)

meanwhile england can pick up norway without the needed support if russia hasn't opened with army moscow to stp.

Therefore as england i would risk moving to north sea/norwegian sea, and hope that russia and france each know, opening to attack me is a good way to guarentee an enemy. (and also guarentee england doesn't invade germany.)

Of course a good France-Russia alliance could ruin your day, but that's pretty hard for them to agree, especially in a gunboat. But in any kind of press, france can listen to whatever russia says, but can't know that opening to the channel will find reciprocation from russia in the form of Army moscow - stp.

for black sea, a bounce makes most sense, though as turkey if you choose to avert lepanto you need two fleets in the med by 1902, which means taking bulgria to buildi in smy AND moving ank to con and on to AEG in 1901.

the only way to do this AND be safe from russia is to threaten sevastopol with the following: army smy -> armenia.

here even if you find black sea ocupied con and arm can bounce in ank, keeping all centers safe.

you only have to worry about austrian army rumania supported by black sea into bulgaria, possible but highly unlikely and serbia may be open to retreat while con could simply support bul to hold...

other boucnes.
tyrolia - Italy has a lot to gain from opening to tyrolia, and both austria and germany would prefer to avoid such an eventuality. It is entirely possible to see vienna and munich bounce in tyrolia in 1901, though the popularity of lepanto seems to reduce this occurance.

piedmont - italy can offer this to france and france is crazy at as much risk whether he goes for it or not.

burgundy - france & germany can arrange this or it can happen out of aggression, but
personally i'd prefer to order my army paris to gascony, for the obvious defensive advantage.

silesia/prussia - russia is better off assuming a german DMZ, even if it is unspoken. Common sense dictates that crossing this no-mans land in 1901 is suicide, but that's not to say those less sensible or more adventurous will not try it.

Russian army moscow - livonia, along with fleet stp - GoB, can facilitate a convoy to sweden in fall, and is a very nice variation of the usual northern opening. Along with warsaw moving east, russia can afford to send three units west and still holds some hope of taking rumania if turkey supports him.

All good points Orathaic. Do you consider that the standard English opening informs everyone of your intent (Ie just to take Norway and keep out of a fight)? If St P is unoccupied by a army in Autumn would you consider signalling that North Sea will support say Germany or France to show further intent or would that give info to the enermy aswell. Also I'd appreciate your comments on other areas (least people think you have an interest in only one part of the board).

trieste/venice barely merits discussion.

either should keep their home unit safe.

italy should always consider punishing a balkans gambit by taking trieste. Juggernauts are not the end of the world, and ripping austria apart fast enough can leave italy in a position to ally with either russia or turkey - potentially a better ally for both.

unfortunately with army lvp to yorkshire, england has to use fleet north sea to convoy instead of indicating anything.

or take norway with his northern fleet which really puts a dent in any advance on russia.

that said, attacking russia is much easier if england can take sweden and send a fleet to GoB - though germany is usually less than enthusiastic.

sorry orathaic - i think we posted at the same time. I can't agree that Trieste and Venice doesn't warrant discussion - I think it is more critical in gunboat than in the standard game

then discuss.

i think you almost have to defend both trieste and venice - the discussion is only which units italy&austria should use to defend them.

The aim of 'diplomacy as a spectator sport' is no so much to discuss strategy per-sai but to discuss how you can signal your intent. Therefore does ven support hold tri convey meaning to autria (and to others) is ven hold better? Does ven-pie signal an attack on france or is it defensive? If you mean to signal ven-pie as an attack should it be coupled with nap-Tyrr sea? Do you understand what i'm trying to do now?

We could make a parallel game of guessing moves for each country. I'll start:
E: Lon-NOR
F: Bre-MAO (in fact I think I could predict all French orders in most gunboats)
G: Ber-Kie
R: War-Gal
A: Vie-Gal
T: Con-Bul
I: Nap-ION

@jesus - 'in fact I think I could predict all French orders in most gunboats' - we'll see

@jesus - none of your moves are designed to convey information to potential allies or enermies. Is turn 1 too early to signal intent?

@Jesus I think you forgot one or two units :)

@Maniac: for some it's too early and it can be detrimental. For others, it's useful, and can even be sneakily deceiving!
@EM: I just wanted to predict the most obvious ones so I can make less errors! :-P

Well, I think in gunboats the first thing you have to worry is finding some ally, and you should try to signal this intention as soon as possible.
I expect a lot of bounces on this first turn, as I think most people will try to be conservative with so many people looking the game.
I expect to see some bounces at least on Bur, Gal and Bls and will not be surprised with bounces on EC and/or Trie.
Also, gunboats sometimes favours people with a more aggresive approach.

@rdrivera - how do gunboats favour aggression when you have to signal and then move rather than talk then move?

PS - i agree with the likelihood of bounces in Blk Sea, gal and poss bur. but what does that signal to potential allies? or are other moves in concert with those moves move useful as signals?

@Maniac: sometimes, your move is a signal! It can backfire, but if it works, it's very effective.

i'm fairly certain that right now as we are only discussing opening theory (lepanto, english intent with norwegian and EC openings) there are no novelties to discuss, but i will chime in after we actually get underway. also i dont' think participants in the gunboat game should be allowed to post here, as it seems dubious as per gunboat rules... even if it is anonymous