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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Crazy Anglican (1067 D)
03 Feb 10 UTC
Word association thread
Post the first single word that comes to mind when you have read the last post.
14402 replies
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Tolstoy (1962 D)
18 Jun 11 UTC
Skeptics, atheists, Christians, and Anyone Else - please chime in
Make sure you watch both parts first:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EWwzFwUOxA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5965wcH2Kx0
196 replies
Open
12hr Mediterranean
12hrs/phase
Anon
Ancient Mediterranean
1 reply
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London198 (0 DX)
28 Jun 11 UTC
50 pt Anon WTA
hosting an Anonymous WTA 50 point buy in, 1 day phases starts in a day. Game ID = 62606
1 reply
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Maniac (189 D(B))
24 May 11 UTC
Diplomacy as a spectator sport
gameID=59681 follow the game here and discuss and comment as the game progresses; players will also contribute but as game is anonymous gunboat we don't know who is playing and who is shouting from the sidelines.
337 replies
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raphtown (151 D)
25 Jun 11 UTC
World Wide Web (of Diplomacy)
See inside for my proposal for a Classicist branch on webdip.
24 replies
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thatwasawkward (4690 D(B))
28 Jun 11 UTC
12-hour high stakes WTA gunboat?
Greetings all. I've set up a 12-hour per phase WTA classic gunboat with a password and was hoping to entice some of the more experienced Diplomacy veterans to join up for a high quality game. The entry fee is 333 D. Shoot me a PM if you want in. If you meet my moderately rigorous requirements (you've got some skill and don't make a habit of resigning games) I will send you the password. Thanks.

gameID=62629
1 reply
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President Eden (2750 D)
29 Jun 11 UTC
Might need a sitter for a live game soon.
PM for details. It's not going to be a terribly difficult commission.
10 replies
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President Eden (2750 D)
26 Jun 11 UTC
How do I play this game?
I want to build airplanes to bomb my opponent but they won't let me build anything but tanks and submarines. Where are the airports? And the nukes?

btw I'm 12 years old
53 replies
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apem8 (1295 D)
28 Jun 11 UTC
Live game in 1 hour
Join my live game 30 bet and starts in a hour.
2 replies
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joey1 (198 D)
28 Jun 11 UTC
Need a sitter for Canada/July 4th day weekend
Hello, I'm going to be at the family cottage with no internet from Afternoon of June 30th to Evening of July 4th. I'm in 5, 2 or 3 day/phase games (none are anon) that I would need a sitter to enter 1-2 sets of orders for if I don't get pauses. anyone willing to help with that? Please PM me.
1 reply
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Alderian (2425 D(S))
26 Jun 11 UTC
Trolling question
See inside...
19 replies
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President Eden (2750 D)
26 Jun 11 UTC
FEMA trailer camps -- really concentration camps???
Are they? See inside.
7 replies
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Sicarius (673 D)
21 Jun 11 UTC
9/11 and the Orwellian Redefinition of "Conspiracy Theory"
we had a discussion awhile ago here about this. I invite everyones opinions, but not ad hominem crap.
156 replies
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jmo1121109 (3812 D)
28 Jun 11 UTC
Quick Variant Question
How come there are several disabled variant versions listed under the help section? Are these versions just unfinished?
1 reply
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Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
26 Jun 11 UTC
Where to invest and in what?
Where is a good place to invest hard earned savings in today's volatile financial world?
29 replies
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Riphen (198 D)
26 Jun 11 UTC
How do you know if a Mod has read you email?
Will they respond?
14 replies
Open
☺ (1304 D)
25 Jun 11 UTC
☻☺☺☻
The most disgusting game I've ever played.

gameID=62416
78 replies
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Sicarius (673 D)
23 Jun 11 UTC
How to rescue childhood friend from cult?
need some advice, tips, ideas, suggestions.
bonus for those who have dealt w/ christian cults before.

details inside
56 replies
Open
rollerfiend (0 DX)
18 Jun 11 UTC
Rabbis 'condemn dog to death by stoning'
poor doggie.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13819764
26 replies
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LJ TYLER DURDEN (334 D)
27 Jun 11 UTC
How to rescue an online acquaintance from Bohemianism?
I wish he would stop occassionally living in foreclosed homes and "[being] a hobo." Then again, it could be worse, he could have become religious or something like that.
3 replies
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Putin33 (111 D)
25 Jun 11 UTC
Proud to be from New York: Legal Equality Wins
The hordes of reaction and anti-gay bigotry just had their Waterloo. At a time when politics at the state level around the country has been absolutely horrifying, this is great news.
62 replies
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obiwanobiwan (248 D)
23 Jun 11 UTC
This Time On Philosophy
In "The Odyssey" by Homer, Achilles, the elite hero of the Greeks, leads a large mass of unquestioning, robot-like followers, the Myrmidons, who are classically described as being "ant-people" in their nature. If we were asked which we'd rather be, a hero or a drone, most of us would choose the former, "drone" doesn't sound appealing...and yet, politically, we prefer the rule of masses over the few...so, which is preferable? Why? Elitists, Pluralists, ho! :)
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manganese (100 D)
25 Jun 11 UTC
I was referring to adults, not kids.
manganese (100 D)
25 Jun 11 UTC
Sorting people out at age 16 is the way to create morlocks, not a functioning society.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
25 Jun 11 UTC
And yet...Japan and Germany...

I've poroduced a concrete example of it working,m and working well, it would seem, and the mere possibility that it might go wrong is not a suffiicient defense against it, as that might be employed against anything.

So, do you have a specific counter to my Japan/Germany example of a positive implementation of this ideal?
manganese (100 D)
25 Jun 11 UTC
http://ffh.films.com/id/11520/Japanese_Education_in_Crisis.htm
manganese (100 D)
25 Jun 11 UTC
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5514431,00.html
manganese (100 D)
25 Jun 11 UTC
Also: I still want an operalization of merit.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
25 Jun 11 UTC
WHat do you mean by operalization of merit, since I obviously haven't yet met that,,,
fiedler (1293 D)
25 Jun 11 UTC
whizz
Putin33 (111 D)
25 Jun 11 UTC
Obi,

You never quite answered the question about who gets to vote in your system.
Fasces349 (0 DX)
25 Jun 11 UTC
may I ask how left win on immigration and education is elitism?
may I ask how claiming to be an elitist, then saying it has to many flaws and the people should have power is elitist?
may I ask how left of center is elitist?

Your saying one thing, then as soon as I call you up on it your saying another.
So are you pro-elitism thinking that the upper class should rule of the lower class, which is generally a right wing anti democratic view. Or are you a liberal democrat?
If you are both explain how that is possible.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
25 Jun 11 UTC
@Putin:

EVERYONE gets to vote, the stipulation, as I've said, being that for CERTAIN, AREA-SPECIFIC matters, only those qualified qould vote.

"WHAT'S QUALIFIED?" the deafening multitude roars back.

Again, to use my driver analogy...

I do not drive.

THEREFORE, it seems rather absurd that I should be allowed whether or not driving while on a cellphone is to be allowed; I lack the necessary qualification--ie, actually driving and knowing what that's like, how hard it might be to concentrate, the actual speed of it all, which I'd imagine can feel quite different in the driver's seat rather than sitting shotgun or passenger--to make an informed decision on that point.

Ergo, I should not be allowed to vote on this issue any more than I should be allowed to drive without having a license.
Putin33 (111 D)
25 Jun 11 UTC
I'm confused. Are you proposing a direct democracy in which every issue is put for a vote but only those with specific expertise on the issue area are allowed to vote on the particular referendum?

Or are you proposing a representative democracy in which representatives vote on issues pertaining to their expertise? [If so this largely already happens in our committee system]
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
25 Jun 11 UTC
@fasces:

See, this is why I HATE party/wing identification--it's sloppy, it's a red herring of an issue, and as I vote for the issues themselves and not for a little "D" or "R" on someone's lapel, it's extraneous and irrelevant to my position.

I said that I TENDED to be left-of-center...there are some issues I'm probably squarely left on, squarely right on others, and some wehre I'm perfectly pragmatic or undecided and in the center.

As for Education and Eltism...I just GAVE my account of that...so...did you not read that, or are you questioning if it's leftist? If it's the latter, I don't really CARE if it's leftiost, to be honest, I'd see that as "elft," and maybe you wouldn't, again, political affiliation can be different from person to person adn sloppy--hence, again, my DISDAIN for it--and if it's the former and you didn't read my bit on that...well, read my bit on Elitisti Educati0on via Merit-based progression before you say I ahven't adressed that issue.

I've said that ANY government or ideology has flaws, and so Elitism is no different; to paraphrase James Madison, if we were perfect angels or devils, we wouldn't NEED goverment, instead, we're in the middle and imperfect, and so any solution we devise on a governmental basis is going to be imperfect--even one that I endorse, ie, an Elitist meritocracy.

The only "power" one has as being Elite is power over that field, again,as I've said; for example, the better teacher I am via Merit, the more pay I deserve and more influence I deserve to hodl in board meetings and in voting, and if there is an issue on the ballot concerning educational reform that SOLELY involves teachers--and that's an unlikely scenario, but this is a strict hypothetical--then I would be able, were I a teacher, to vote on that issue, whereas others would not, as they would not be "qualified" to vote on a "teachers' only" issue for the same reason I explained that my non-driving self would be ineligible to vote on driving laws.

I WILL say that I believe that via Elitism and an Advancement via Merit, those who are generally best in their respective fields would TEND to end up controlling said fields, and from thee, we would TEND to vote amongst such people for office, as such people who are at the head of their field are likely to have the resources to run for office and would also seem to TEND to be beter suited to rule, if they already are the heads of their field.

*NOTICE AND TAKE HEED OF THAT WORD "TEND.*

This does NOT earn that their are restrictions on who can and cannot run for office.

Under my Elitism, a janitor could run against a senator for President of the United States.

Now, Elitism would tend to tell us that between a janitor and an already-proven senator who's been part of our government already and knows how things work, MERIT would seem to shout "VOTE FOR THE SENATOR!" However, while it may draw inspiration from him, this is NOT Plato's Republic, and you're free to vote for the janitor, freedom of choice is allowed for government elections.

(Now, for governmental APPOINTMENTS, that's different--while an election is the nation choosing freely who it wants to run the State, government appointments MUST run via Merit, as these are service positions and, as a result, those best qualified to serve MUST be chosen in my view, rather than, say, choosing someone strictly because they are a Democrat or a Republican or because they donated $500,000 to a senator's War Chest for the last election. HERE Meritocracy must prevail over the Spoils System.)

The upper, middle, and lower classes all rule TOGETHER.

Plato EMPHASIZES THIS STRONGLY, that while the Rulers are the "highest" class, it takes the full cooperation and coodination between the Rulers, Guardians, and Workers to make the State work.

Would MOST of the people in power TEND to be rich/upper-class?

Yes...but that's not much different than it is now, and I would argue that, with the exception of blue-bloods and daddy-son relationships (see: Bush family and, to prove I ahve no bias one way or the other here, the Kennedy family) those who are rich are generally men of merit, that is, they have worked to create their enterprise, and so deserve their wealth as a result of their efforts.,

Is that always the truth?
No.
Would I like to see those born into a "Worker" class rise into the "Rulers" class?
ABSOLUTELY; Plato emphasizes this as well, that birth shall have no bearing on whether someone is a Ruler, Guardian, or Worker (now, I'm not going to HIDE their fathers and mothers from them and tell them instead that they sprang from the Earth "born" to rule or "born" to be a worker, as Plato wants, but nevertheless, yes, I want the advancement of the Working class upwards ALWAYS, the advancement of the Guardian clas upward ALWAYS, and, yes, the Ruling class to trend upward AWLAYS.)

Meritocracy and Elitism seeks to push no one down.

On a Meritocracy, the only direction I am concerned with is UP.
Putin33 (111 D)
25 Jun 11 UTC
The very fact that an issue would be on the ballot for the public at large to vote on belies your 'elitism'. I don't think your system is "elitist" in the slightest, and I haven't the foggiest idea why you continue to call yourself one.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
25 Jun 11 UTC
Did you not get my numerous "you may vote for this IF AND ONLY IF YOU ARE QUALIFIED" mentions?

Issues are decided by the qualified members of the public for that particular issue, and NOT merely by the "public at large."

Whether the number of "qualified members/voters" for any one given issue is a handful or the entire State depends solely on the issue.

Furthermore, I again stress that it is in the merit-based system of education and governmental appointments to power that I am Elitist...

I'm no clear-cut, 100% dogma-following devotee to any one ideal...

I like Elitism, I agre with it and implement it in places, and disagree and do not implement it in others.

The same way I like Nietzsche for some things and John Stuart Mill--who was radically different enough from Nietzsche the Raging German called him a "blockhead"--for others.
Putin33 (111 D)
25 Jun 11 UTC
"
Issues are decided by the qualified members of the public for that particular issue, and NOT merely by the "public at large." "

That's still more democratic than the default of just having an elected assembly vote on it. Your system is completely consistent with numerous parliamentary democracies that exist today. I think Germany is your ideal society. They have the tiered education model. They have a system of democratic corporatism in which professional associations and unions related to a particular policy have a great deal of input in policy making and in cases administer policy themselves through semi-public institutions. They have a model of social consensus in which government, labor, business, and interest groups work very closely together to make and implement policy.

If you're an elitist then the Germanic model of governance is elitist. Except I don't think Germany have a large of referenda. Instead teachers or whatnot ratify policies related to their occupation by having a seat at the table during the drafting and committee process. Group members are appointed to ministerial commissions and councils, etc.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
26 Jun 11 UTC
Germany certainly sounds closer to my vision than the USA...

Probably somewhere between modern German and Plato's Republic is my idea of Elitist Republican Government...Plato's far off the deep end and too strict, and from your description, I think I'd like that government a bit tighter and even more of a meritocracy...

But yes, from your description, and certainly from my previous statements, Germany probably is my ideal state amongst the modern ones.
Fasces349 (0 DX)
26 Jun 11 UTC
"The very fact that an issue would be on the ballot for the public at large to vote on belies your 'elitism'. I don't think your system is "elitist" in the slightest, and I haven't the foggiest idea why you continue to call yourself one."
See Obi, I am not the only one who thinks this...
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
26 Jun 11 UTC
Fasces, your ability to selectively read astounds me...

Did you just totally ignore the part AFTER that where I responded to that view point, and my past post, wherein I agreed with Putin on where I stand on meritocracy and nations and Germany?

Really--read the posts folks make before you jump back in...
A great book that is very parallel to this discussion is "The Wisdom of Crowds" by J. Surowiecki. He uses "expert" in lieu of "elite" or qualified and much of the book is on collective wisodm and how to assess it versus states of groupthink (An Orwellian-esque term in economics that is gaining popularity). I don't have a stake in pushing the book - but there were lots of deja vu moments while reading this thread.
Fasces349 (0 DX)
27 Jun 11 UTC
"Fasces, your ability to selectively read astounds me..."
Thank you, I'm a pro :)

"Did you just totally ignore the part AFTER that where I responded to that view point, and my past post, wherein I agreed with Putin on where I stand on meritocracy and nations and Germany?"
Was I suppose to?


Politically Singapore is the nation closest to my views...


81 replies
jman777 (407 D)
30 Jun 09 UTC
LAST PERSON TO POST WINS!!!!!!!!
The title is self explanatory.
11532 replies
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Vaibhav Warden (100 D)
26 Jun 11 UTC
Barak Obama - American born?
Is he? look below?
41 replies
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fiedler (1293 D)
27 Jun 11 UTC
Trolling for suggestions for activity in New Caledonia
Bonjour, the fiedler has some time to kill in New Caledonia, especially Noumea. Anyone been or have recommendations of things to occupy here? Locations of buried treasure? Best kava bar?
Pourriez vous m'aider s'il vous plait?
Also, I think USA would beat China, socialism is humanism, and philosophy is nice. Discuss?
0 replies
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Cachimbo (1181 D)
25 Jun 11 UTC
Terminology help
I've seen this thread on SoW, and I'm interested (in that it seems to present the occasion for learning). I don't know what SoW means however. Nor what the PhP dip on facebook mean. Help? This thread could be use to disambiguate all these acronyms!
5 replies
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fabiobaq (444 D)
26 Jun 11 UTC
Ancient Mediterranean new game
So, as the last AncMed game I created was cancelled by lack of players, I'm here to announce another one: gameID=62442.
0 replies
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dipplayer2004 (1310 D)
26 Jun 11 UTC
Live game?
Bored on Sunday--join up!
0 replies
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Geofram (130 D(B))
14 Jun 11 UTC
The WebDip GuestMap
http://www.mapservices.org/myguestmap/map/webDiplomacy

Please read some guidelines inside, they are important.
154 replies
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