It's more European than Middle-Eastern... go from there.

Of course, Turkey has the interesting geography that leaves it in two continents, but even Israel tries to be European and sneaks in to competitions such as the Champion's League on that basis.

I am particularly interested in the timing factor. Would you admit Turkey now?

I think Turkey is not suppose to join EU. It is true that they have part of Trace, but they have so different mentality from other Europeans. Not to mention that Turkish military is only reason while Turkey is still democracy. Islamic party have majority in parliament, and their program is islamisation of Turkey. Army threatening with coup stooped them in that.

The champions league isn't sufficient to be European though - if it was turkey would already be in.

I can't imagine they'd be allowed to join whilst still disputing Cyprus?

No country in the EU has a higher score than two in either civil or political liberties in the last Freedom House Report. Turkey's at threes in both. In other words, they're still not there.

Yes, they should be allowed to. Will take decades though.

What's the argument for conferring member status to Turkey from the EUs perspective? Turkish membership will tend to drive wages down throughout the EU, politically Turkey does not meet the norms of an EU member, or even the lower boundaries of an EU member, and the EU is dealing with serious economic issues with member states already without adding the Turkish economy into the mix. Where's the win for EU member states?

Well Bismarck officially stated it's not european anymore.

Bob: are we supposed to accept countries only if they improve the Union as a whole?

No food jokes? I hate to mince my words on a subject like this, a cut above many of the others, but if I will if I must, 'ard as it will be.

Actually I find this quite difficult. Turkey is sandwiched between two cultures. Clearly some of the population wish for an Islamic state, which I struggle to see within the EU, whilst some wish for secular, Western-style society, which I can imagine. Of course, it is not possible to carve up the country into two. If the religious issues are hard to swallow then I think the economic arguments are more palatable: 72 million consumers, many young, with relatively low wage levels are a sweet new market and pool of labour to dip into. As for Cyprus. Turkey only supports an independent state in Cyprus whereas Eire was able to join the EU whilst maintaining a claim to Northern Ireland.

On the whole I think anything which spreads good governance and economic stability is positive.

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Phew: no mis-steaks on the food joke front although I came a bit close to the bone a couple of times.

Flashman: It's not really my place to say whether the EU should only accept as member states those states which would improve the Union as a whole. It depends upon what you identify as the primary purpose of the EU. Is it to increase the weal of member states, or to spread the norms of the founding states?

@Bob
The main motivation behind founding of the European Coal & Steel Community (predecessor to the EEC, which in turn became the EU) was to 'make war not only unthinkable but materially impossible.'

From that point of view, bringing in an essentially Islamic state to a primarily Christian union could help reduce tensions. Conversely, telling Turkey to go away is likely to increase them.

Probably, but it will come at a certain cost. And given that real war in Europe is more or less impossible right now, why should an EU citizen want to pay those costs?

War is different than having social tension.
Showing that europe can be nice to muslim countries would mean a lot to muslims in europe.

I personally do not think they should be allowed to join mainly for two reasons.

Firstly, Cyprus. They need to reach an agreement there before anything can happen, and we all know that the powers that be will not allow them to join until something changes.

Secondly, as has been said before, they are much MUCH more a part of the middle east than they are of Europe, so it seems like a bit of a cheap shot that they are applying in the first place.

Just my two cents.

is Cyprius geographicaly in Europe? Of course not, but the EU doesn't care about geography while it can become bigger, so I can't see why they wouldn't accept Turkey on geographic purpose. But Turkey is full of islamic pricks, they don't even recognise Cyprius to be an independant state, they deny genocide, etc... Of course they cannot join EU yet.

once again they deny the armenian genocide

@Chamois: I think Cyprus is as much in Europe as Malta.

Are you objecting because of the dominant religion?

@Baron Samedi: well said

I don't think it is in any nation's interests to become an EU member state. The economic effect is likely to be negative and the loss of sovereignty and democratic accountability of leaders unjustifiable.

@diplomat61 : Malte is way more western than Cyprius, look at a map. Cyprius is in Asia.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Europe_%28orthographic_projection%29.svg

at least a part of Turkey is in Europe, but Cyprus.

How is Turkey's behavior vis-a-vis Cyprus different from Greece's?

As for the Freedom house rankings, how can Turkey rank materially behind Slovakia at the time of Slovakia's admission, barely removed from genuine dictatorship? Or Bulgaria, economically?

It seems to me as an American who shares an office with a Turk, has a Turk in the next office and a Turk two doors down in the other direction, that the EU should either state that they will never let Turkey in and that Turkey fails the "European" requirement or else say here is a set of requirements and a 3-5 year timetable to membership.

I always thought Cyprus was a Greek territory? Where's anlari when you need him.

I think it would be a great move for Turkey to join the EU Ghost, its just not in the EUs interests to take on Turkey.

@Chamois: thanks for the map but I know very well where those places are. Surely the point is about the nature of the society.

Apart from the Armenian genocide and position on Cyprus what is the problem with Turkey joining?

First step is Eurvision Songcontest. Second step is champions league.

What benefit do you think Turkey will get from burdening themselves with regulation, exactly?

Directed at figle^^

The arguments about trade etc. do not demand a political union such as the EU. It is a vile, self-serving bureaucracy without the slightest interest in the people they are governing. I know the statistics relating to the UK on this matter, and they are not pretty reading.