Or spend some of your huge arsenal of points to join Moscow Mule 4, where the politeness and pleasure are guaranteed in equal measure.

Wow... I'm a poet and I didn;t even realise!

Yeah, sorry Polar Bear. I would be upset with that as well. Who is being so rude? Group D is a lot of fun thus far, and though we are all being competative, everyone is polite and civil.

I can say the same about Group A. For my part, I believe that Obsenity has no place in diplomacy. Shuning players, burning bridges etc. all have a place. Obsenity does not, and I am willing to enforce my view on people if it proves to be necessary. Naming and shaming should be enough though.

@Polar Bear: I'm very sorry to hear you intend to leave - I for one was particularly keen to play against (or with) you in league F.

Personally I agree that obscenity has no place in Diplomacy, but I also feel it's no reason to stop playing. I always say "honeyed words or personal insults are as one - nothing compared to the actual actions in the game".

Can I persuade you to stay? Remember that if you do well you'll be in a better (and hopefully more civilized league group) next season.

Good to hear that the other leagues are better.

I am not going to name and shame, and it's not really a case of 'obscenity', more the general sentiment that is being expressed.

The last thing I want is to appear to be a whiner. The point I am making is that, if everyone is so suspicious and hostile to each other, it makes collaboration impossible, and actually reduces the skill of the game so a kind of colorful checkers.

In our game, things are going great. I can sense that the play is a little more conservative than normal, but there is some great diplomacy happening also

Well, if you can convince one player of the sense of an agreement, even a cautious one, you should be nigh on home and dry.

Hey PB

A more cynical man than myself might have suggested that playing Diplomacy is fine when you are winning but not so great when the other guys dont give you it all your own way...

But then I noticed that you are England to Mapleleaf's France....

Although I'm sure it's someone else and not him (yeah right!), you are clearly a good player and such tactics should not affect your game. You would be letting yourself down to blame his aggressive communication for the fact that you haven't just carved up the game like you have 9 of your other 10

Read a bit of Kipling and get yourself back on track! And give MP some of his own medicine

I guess it is more than possible that this thread is part of your tactics but that would be bordering on metagaming :)

Best of luck

Withnail

Group E is actually stretching me.

Churchill, I hope that's a good thing?

I've found Group E to be great so far, lots going on all over the board and generally responsive, friendly (and competitive) people.

I haven't had any of the problems Polar Bear mentioned. Granted, I didn't follow through on anything I said I would with him, but so what. I'm not 100% sure who's making these comments, but I have a good guess. It's a strategy (if not a great one) if you can't deal with him, stop talking to him. I dont' think the leagues have anything to do with this. If you really aren't having fun, then you should leave. No sense wasting your time. But, don't go if one player is giving you a hard time; you'll just be letting him get the better of you.

> Get a life guys, it's 5 points at stake.

would you be more keen to play if the bet was bigger? this is leagues and they use a different scoring system

but as withnail said, you probably want to extend the game to the public forum to accomplish something in the game

I would say the level of play is higher and people are playing pretty conservatively so far in the first game- we are all testing each other, im sure it will be more homey soon.

but the unfriendliness that doesnt sound fun at all...it must be his particular way of dealing with bordering nations, it must have worked in in the past sometimes or he wouldn't keep on doing it but personally i would see it as a great chance to team up with others to teach him a lesson about...diplomacy!

I think it is just your game. I have met only one player who was simply unrelentingly and needlessly rude - clearly the type that wants to beat other players not win a game. Probably the same player to boot; given the attitude I remember in the posts I received it almost has to be.

On the plus side, alliances against rude idiots are surprisingly easy to arrange.

hey, does any of you believe in-game alliances should be made on the public forum?? i urge my fellow players not to spoil our league E game like F has been spolied already

Not to worry alamothe, from what I've seen so far our league is of high integrity. I've found Group E to be skilled, tactful, responsive, and just overall pleasant and friendly.

Group A has been a wonderful experience so far, the level of competition is intense, the press thoughtful, the players skilled. I say gang up on the jerk and beat the crap out of him. Or just play really well- the best revenge is living well, no? I'm sure if you drop out, there will be plenty of takers.

I agree with a lot of what has been said above. I really don't mind losing, and I don't mind being backstabbed or lied to. What I don't appreciate is rude communication. I've had it from two of my three neighbours; the other one seems to just be a basic lying backstabber but at least he is polite.

The game is Diplomacy; taken from dictionary.com that is "skill in managing negotiations, handling people, etc., so that there is little or no ill will; tact:"

Possibly I just got unlucky with this group and these neighbours in particular. I try to play the game collaboratively and through exchange of information. It just seemed to me that if no-one else plays this way, and all you get is suspicion and rudeness, then what's the point?

By the way Abgemacht, I am not abdicating; I'll see this game out. I'd die before I CD'd in a game of phpdip.

Of course, i had every faith in you sticking it out til the end. I'm just suggesting we work together to take you out of your misery sooner : )

Unless you have submarines or an air force you may struggle with that one. :-)

PB

There are many examples of such diplomacy in the World....Chavez for example, or even Sadam Hussein (and look what happened to him, eventually)

I don't thinkit is right that diplomacy needs to avoid ill will. Sometimes it is beneficial to achieving ones objectives to deliebrately create ill will

A broader perspective from Withnail. In the cases of real-world 'belligerent' diplomacy (Chavez, Hussein, Kim Jong-Il, Castro, Bush), it seems it is meant mostly to shore up weak internal/domestic support, rather than achieve any external/international aims. It's a bit like a low self-esteem for a phpDip player.

That's really unfortunate. I don't even remember which group I'm in, but it's absolutely fantastic. Everyone is playing a high level of game play and I haven't noticed any rudeness.

I dislike rudeness, but I have to say that it is a valid strategy, though I'd say it works less than polite knives in backs. Maybe they hate polar bears...

As for the 5 point bet, that was simply to make the leagues more accessible. It doesn't mean that the game is worth less than any other game. For me, points aren't worth nearly as much as the pleasure of pulling one over a player I consider to be more skilled than I am. =D

Following here is a copy of my side of all of my communications with PB. I will not copy and paste his/her remarks, but I will point out that I was called an arrogant(Again. All of my posts are here for you to see) backstabber simply because I would not comply with his/her wishes. Sorry folks, but unless this is some sort of over the top in-game strategy, then this is just uncalled for. Indeed, my final remark is a result of being called "rude".

All of which begs the question, why is he/she in the English Channel.

I am amazed that a large number of league members have simply SWALLOWED all of PB's self-serving drivel.

What a bloody destructive crybaby. Smearing three members, and then attempting to claim some pathetic moral high ground by refusing to identify the profane individual.

Here's the copy.....
======================================
Autumn 1901: I think that you ought to take Norway, follow into the North Sea with Lon, and move Wal to York. I'll try for Bel. If I get it, I can support a convoy to Hol. if I don't(likely), neither will Germany.
======================================
Autumn 1901: You have a wild imagination. I offered my advice as a friend and ally.
EC is a traditional DMZ for England/France, and for good reason. Perhaps we can renew our friendship with a greater understanding.
======================================
Autumn 1901: One would think that leaving Belgium for you would be sufficient, but I suspect that you are rather high maintenance. I'm not leaving a home sc wide open to you. We cement our cooperation when you leave the Channel. Not before.
======================================
Sorry. I'm really really busy at work right now. I'm not being deliberately aloof. I've just picked your message up now.
Fri 05 AM Well, you have to support your fleet in the North Sea or Germany will take it. If you do that, then Germany will capture Bel from Burg.

Fri 05 AM I'll leave you alone provided that you promise to get out of the Channel as soon as you are able.
======================================
No problem.
======================================
My understanding was that you were pulling out of the Channel in any event. To impose these conditions after the fact is "the scoundrel thing to do". So YOU can drop the pretense.

I'll build whatever I see fit. If I DO build an army, it's got nothing to do with what you would love to see.
======================================
Why do you have to be so flakey?
======================================

This is just your side of the record yes? I have to say I don't really see anything wrong with anything you've said. It's pretty standard.

Indeed so. Even the scoundrel and pretense parts were just me throwing his/her words back at him/her.

I'm not going to get into posting private messages on here. Suffice to say that the above is, of course, a completely edited record which is so incomplete as to make it nonsense.

Actually I never named you and you've chosen to step forward. If the cap fits....

"I am amazed that a large number of league members have simply SWALLOWED all of PB's self-serving drivel.

What a bloody destructive crybaby. Smearing three members, and then attempting to claim some pathetic moral high ground by refusing to identify the profane individual. "

.....you're not helping yourself here.

All I have said is that I don't wish to continue with this league because I am tired of logging on to read such stuff. It's my choice. You've illustrated brilliantly what I object to.

Fair enough, idiot. Here's the whole thing. (The edited part has been left in. I won't bother to point out how innocuous it is. I left it out for obvious reasons, but there's really no harm in revealing it.)
=======================================
Autumn 1901: I think that you ought to take Norway, follow into the North Sea with Lon, and move Wal to York. I'll try for Bel. If I get it, I can support a convoy to Hol. if I don't(likely), neither will Germany.
Tue 16 Sep Autumn 1901: Germany's going to cover Munich, surely. I'm not going to go for Norway, I am going for Belgium, as originally agreed. If you go there, we'll bounce. We may as well bounce in English Channel too.

I now see you wanted the standard 'go and attack Russia while I get ready to backstab you' English/French alliance. I told you I wanted Belgium, you agreed; I even gave you my moves, and you've essentially blocked me from taking it and now want it for yourself. So you may now cut the pretence. :-)
Wed 17 Sep Autumn 1901: You have a wild imagination. I offered my advice as a friend and ally.
EC is a traditional DMZ for England/France, and for good reason. Perhaps we can renew our friendship with a greater understanding.
Wed 17 Sep Autumn 1901: :-) Let's not worry. You've done me a favour really. If I ended this turn on 5 SC's I'd only make myself a target. Let's see what happens in Belgium, and what threats emerge.
Wed 11 AM Autumn 1901: So; you left me Belgium and are now comitted vs Germany. Germany allowed Russia into Sweden. Both of these say to me that we can and should work together. It all depends now on what you build. If it's a fleet in Brest, I have to defend EC and leave Belgium to Germany. But if it's something else and you're willing to support EC > Belgium using Burgundy, then we can cement our co-operation and you get the DMZ you wanted.
Wed 12 PM Autumn 1901: One would think that leaving Belgium for you would be sufficient, but I suspect that you are rather high maintenance. I'm not leaving a home sc wide open to you. We cement our cooperation when you leave the Channel. Not before.
Wed 10 PM Spring 1902: Your last comment was "I'll try for Bel. If I get it, I can support a convoy to Hol." You never revised this. So stop imagining you did me a favour. Because I received no response from you, I cancelled the move to Belgium. You're rather inconsistent yourself. I get a message from you last night offering friendship and understanding, which is followed by an aggressive build and an arrogant message.

You could easily have taken Portugal with A Spain and moved MAO to cover Brest. I was not requesting that you left an SC open at all and, in any case why would I favour a move there over a supported move to Belgium? I'm not retarded. Your build in Brest is hostile and I am now fully gearing up for defence.
Thu 10 PM Spring 1902: Germany is becoming a monster, and may well end this turn on eight SC's. Now I am not facing two of your fleets, can we please take this opportunity to put aside our mutual disgust and work out a mutually advantageous next move. I am willing to vacate EC (if I can get out), although not in order to allow F Brest straight in.

I await your response.
Fri 05 AM Autumn 1902: Sorry. I'm really really busy at work right now. I'm not being deliberately aloof. I've just picked your message up now.
Fri 05 AM Autumn 1902: Well, you have to support your fleet in the North Sea or Germany will take it. If you do that, then Germany will capture Bel from Burg.

Fri 05 AM Autumn 1902: I'll leave you alone provided that you promise to get out of the Channel as soon as you are able. It's true that Germ is the threat here.
Fri 05 AM Autumn 1902: I want to leave the channel. The problem is that I need to support North Sea this turn. I'd appreciate it if you do not cut this support. If you can just hold Brest instead if moving to EC then I would appreciate it, and it does you no harm. The moment I don't have two German fleets threatening North Sea I will move EC back to London. This could be next move if Germany takes Sweden now.
Fri 06 AM Autumn 1902: No problem.
Fri 02 PM Autumn 1902: OK thanks.
06:01 AM Autumn 1902: You know, I thought about going for Brest because I just *knew* you'd empty it to make a 3rd fleet there. But then I thought it would be a scoundrel thing to do. Next time I will trust my instincts, eh?
05:20 PM Autumn 1902: Really, I would love to see an army, not a fleet appear in Brest, so I can pull out of English Channel for good, but I am not holding out much hope.
06:54 PM Autumn 1902: My understanding was that you were pulling out of the Channel in any event. To impose these conditions after the fact is "the scoundrel thing to do". So YOU can drop the pretense.

I'll build whatever I see fit. If I DO build an army, it's got nothing to do with what you would love to see.
09:14 PM Autumn 1902: Actually, I have a question, which is why do you have to be so rude?
12:24 AM Autumn 1902: Why do you have to be so flakey?
03:45 AM You probably haven't done yourself a great favour by posting (incomplete) transcripts on the forum there. Not exactly in the spirit of the game. But neither is the rest of your behaviour, which is based on abuse, bullying and name-calling. I don't expect you're going to learn a different style so I will vacate this space and hope that my replacement puts up with it. But it's not what I call enjoyment.

Please don't contact me again. I won't be around much longer; there's no way I can withstand you, Germany and Russia.
======================================
Now...I'll throw this open to the gallery. Who would you identify, in this conversation, as being overly aggressive. If it will help by referring to motive and circumstance, then take a look at the game and scroll back and forth to see the sequence of moves.
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=5661&msgCountry=Global

All of this nonsense from TWO YEARS OF PLAYING. We are now in Spring 1903.

People, we are dealing with liar and a flake.

My answer to this is, who said I was even talking about you?

Take a look above and you'll see I referred to the atmosphere in the game. Your response is to come on here screaming blue murder?

Why do you even think you have a case to answer? I haven't accused you of anything and yet you're reacting like this? Either you've a guilty conscience or just like the attention. You doth protest too much.

Maybe this world isn't all about YOU. And, once again, by calling me "idiot" you've illustrated your charming communication style. I guess it's your way of adding gravitas to an already-convincing discourse.