@DO

oh the sanctuary cities i don't have as much of a problem with. It's bad border security which is how they're getting in.

I'm no fan of attacking symptoms of a problem, i prefer trying to fix the source.

I think we should try to help Mexico get their shit together as more of a priority than securing the border, then i'm more for securing the border, then i'm for deportation.

that's my priority chart

@abge: I agree sort of. The correct approach is to change the law, not to ignore it.

Sanctuary cities are simply not actively enforcing a federal law. They're not preventing the federal government from enforcing it itself. If the federal government wants to regulate exactly how police forces function, then they can go ahead and do that. Right now, it just says "these people aren't allowed to be here". (n.b. that Donald Trump is not the federal government, and the proper way to go about doing this would be passing laws in Congress)

They're also not at all about legislative activism. If city police forces are enforcing immigration law, immigrants have reason to fear the police, which makes it harder for the police to police other crimes. It also leads to and in some cases legalizes racial profiling, which sucks (though I imagine some of you will find cause to disagree with that assessment).

Municipal governments can't change the law, they can resist it. They are representing the interests of the people.

If Rs thought that what they were doing is illegal, they would take it to the courts. Instead, they're trying to coerce these cities using funding as a bludgeon.

In a political battle between the feds and the largest, richest cities in the world... yeah I'd put my bet on the cities.

Rs are always pro states rights until they're not.

Obviously we need to secure our borders. But the US currently has a draconian immigration law that cannot keep up with demand. We need reform. Once we have reform, we can start enforcing those laws. But until then you cannot expect these cities to fuck over their economies to satisfy the racist ideology of far-away rural communities.

@ghug

I like Sam Harris on racial profiling.

Exclusive, not inclusive. don't go looking for some muslim guy at the airport, that will let some actual terrorists slip through regardless of "aggregate efficiency." however, maybe you don't need to allocate as many resources to the 400 pound mother who is cussing out her 8 children who won't behave

@James wait until the fatties get angry and start terrorist groups.

@Chaqa,

I see what you're saying but simply stating "it's the law" is a good enough reason to support a current and very flawed system rings a little hollow. Under Nazis Germany persecuting Jews was both lawful and encouraged. That didn't mean it wasn't wrong. In pre-Civil War United States it was lawful that a man could own another man and deny him/her their most basic human rights. It was lawful to deny woman and minorities voting rights and fair treatment under the law. Something being the law isn't enough to say it's right.

Now I realize those are extreme examples but they're nonetheless important and relevant. I agree those who are here illegally need to pay taxes if they're going to receive the benefits of living here (which requires they become citizens) but persecuting them and their families isn't the right way to respond to that issue. It's monstrous and steps on every value this country ever stood for. A country built on immigrants by the way.

I posted that not having seen your most recent post Chaqa so I think we might be on the same page then.

@kramerkov

i agree... but playing devil's advocate here, i feel like marching in the streets with signs, and burning down businesses, won't help.

if you don't like the law, change the law. that's how Abraham Lincoln did it, sadly nothing could stop Hitler.the question is how to go about changing things, violently, or within the system.

there's a grey area

@"Chaqa
Illegal immigrants. They're breaking the law. Cities that offer "sanctuary" are breaking the law. Good riddance to sanctuary cities."

Therr is a difference between breaking the law (as so called illegal immigrants do by working without the proper papers) and not enforcing the law.

I don't know about sanctuarycoties, but states that legalise weed and then refuse to enforce federal laws on the drug, are they breaking any law? Is it up to the federal government to come in and arrest all the local weed users (medical card or not...)

How is this different?

And if i make some educated guesses, i imagine tue sanctuary cities allow 'illegal' immgrants to pay local taxes. ieto report they are working and pay their city/state income tax without an threat of removal from the country.

This makes some sense for a city to do as a revenue raising effort, especially if there is a high percentage of illegals...

i say all of you foreigners return to the far shores where you came from

Poland doesn't have shores, though Ireland and Italy do...

also "whence"

the baltic sea has shores. poland borders the baltic sea. don't you play diplomacy?

@JamesYanik

I totally agree with you there and it's a valid point of argument. I agree with peaceful protest (it is, after all a part of the political process that the average citizen may partake in) but the violence is unacceptable. That being said it's hardly fair to criticize a movement of millions based on the actions of a few hundred (obviously that ratio is dependent on the particular protest in question but you get the idea). That and if the government (who is the only one capable of changing the law) is staked with people uninterested in changing it's draconian methods the only option people have is to protest. That's the only way they'll be heard unfortunately.

oh that's right there was no poland in 1901

when i taught in the inner city there were no jobs for the students i taught. they were all held by older people from elsewhere

@Yanik: Well said. Attack a problem at it's source.

I personally have never understood why the US hasn't stepped in to help our Mexican neighbors. The government is all about butting into affairs in the Middle East, but refuses to aid Mexico militarily in the drug war that has ravaged the country for years. The terrorists in Mexico funnel sex slaves, drugs, and weapons back and forth. They have a much greater effect on every day life in the US than ISIS.

of course they could join a gang and then sell drugs and cause mayhem; 'nothing stops a bullet like a job!'

all of these bleeding hearts for these 'immigrants' but nothing for the inner city youth who were born here as were their parents, etc until they were dragged here across the sea to work for free.

@Matticus13

well Mexico is fairly corrupt, and has massive drug cartels working in the country from the border to the Yucatan. We don't want to be imperialist, but Mexico needs to get its crap together

Wut? Many bleeding hearts champion inner city community programs as well Brad...

they don't need bleeding heart 'pity' or 'inner city community programs', they need jobs, the starter jobs of minimum wage to get into the habit of working for a living.

@orath: the marijuana issue is somewhat similar, but the states legalized it. The Constitution doesn't specifically grant relevant powers to the federal government, so therefore it should be a state issue. This is logically consistent as the federal government does have the enumerated power of immigration law. The fact that the DEA exists is IMO a federal overreach. You'll find no love for the DEA among a large section of conservatives (not necessarily Republicans, though. the two aren't synonymous)

@ Yanik

I'm not suggesting occupation. I'm suggesting a sending in some backup, using our vast intelligence network, and 86ing the one's that don't come out with their hands up.

Specifically:
"The Congress shall have Power ... To establish a uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;"

@Brad:

They also need education and extra help. A minimum wage job doesn't solve everything, or anything for that matter

punish employers who hire undocumented workers.