Yeah, sorry Nigee but you need to understand the difference between the executive and the judiciary. This was a decision made by the court, not by president Morsi.

"Yet another reason why we shouldn't interfere in the internal affairs of sovereign states, the people they elect can be worse than the people they replace."

This is moronic.

Everyone on this site is stuck in international relations ideology circa 1900.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised given the nature of the game Diplomacy but... come on dude.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21211984

Apparently a few thousand Egyptians share my views but then what would they know, I bet they don't even have a Webdip Account !!

Did we interfere much in Egypt?

@NigeeBaby, no, you're just displaying more idiocy.

Plainly those protesters think this is a bad thing. But your conclusion was that we shouldn't interfere in the internal affairs of sovereign states; and your observation was something to do with elections...

Again, you have shown no evidence that the court has acted differently from when it was in the hands of the previous regime. You have showed no evidence that international intervention would have made a different, and you have linked your opinion to that of protesters who didn't jump to the same bullshit comments which you have.

Please, just stop. Right now. Think before you post here again.

As a person who rarely thinks before he posts, I disagree.

@YJ, it appears to be possible for you to create cogent posts. I am happy for you to think with your fingers if the quality remains.

@ orathaic The point I was trying, and obviously failing, to make was that replacing one regime/head of state/ruler/political system, etc, etc does not guarantee things will be better as in the case of Egypt.
The Egyptians had a revolution because they wanted more fairness in their society, they wanted an end to the abuse of their human rights, an end to corrupt govts, militia and police force and even though Morsi was actually elected by the 'popular vote' of the Egyptian people he is no better than Mubarak, possibly even worse.
This is the inherent problem with Western govts supporting the overthrow of these 'so-called' dictators, whether it be direct military intervention or more covert diplomatic involvement. There is no guarantee the people we support will make matters better,

"Please, just stop. Right now. Think before you post here again. "
Why don't you extract your head from up your arse you arrogant shit, if you don't like what somebody has posted say so or even better say nothing but why tell them to stop, it wouldn't be a very lively forum if everybody took your approach. You're another one of these chattering classses who think you;re smarter than you really are, a couple of slaps would sort you out you twat.

Actually Nigeetwerp, you are the one missing the point. This isn't about Morsi or his regime. Egypt's courts are separate from Egypt's government. The current regime has no control over the courts. So they aren't to blame for the court's decisions and Morsi cannot and shoild not be judged for them. It woild be lile a new US President taking the oath of office and before a member of SCOTUS retired, the court made some.wildly unpopular decision. You couldn't blame the man in ppwer because he has no control over the courts.

I'm a bad man ...... shoot me now :-)

As a bit of a back story it might help if I explain that I actually went to Egypt last year and asked people there (you know, like real people, just Egyptian) what the revolution was all about and what people hoped to achieve.
What they actually wanted was a reformer, a person who would challenge the powers of the courts, the police, the army, the govt. - all of these institutions riddled with corruption..
Many of these trials have been an absolute farce without due process and little if no legal defence. Allegedly many of the people sentenced to death were just there at the stadium but committed no crimes at all.
The people I met during my time in Egypt were just people that wanted the same opportunities, the same rights and freedoms that we take for granted, They could have been from Iowa or Bruges or Potsdam or Stevenage.
Their hopes have been smashed and so they are back on the streets again as these court cases just highlight that very little has changed. It's not just about on thing or t'other, it's about the society they live in.
It is interesting and humbling to meet people who are willing to demonstrate and risk their lives for rights that I just take for granted but such is the sense of injustice at the way the country is being run people are willing to go to extraordinary lengths.
These people aren't sitting at their PC pontificating about the finer points of govt. and legal structure, what they are experiencing is palpable, sometimes smartarse comments on a gaming forum don't do these people justice, I for one think they deserve so much more.

Ah, Nigee, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're actually telling the truth about this visit. I'm also going to give you even more benefit and assume you can speak the local language, as anyone with half a brain cell would realise that Egyptians that speak English are overwhelmingly from the pro-western secular part of society whose opinions (if heard in isolation) would give you a completely misleading view of Egyptian society.

So, assuming you went there recently and spoke to a good cross section, what you say is great news! When I last went (a few years before the events) Egyptians would talk about almost anything, but were terrified of talking about the government. I tried a few times and got nothing but silence or a rapid change of subject. If Egyptians now openly complain about government to complete strangers then they have made more progress than I thought possible in such a short time!

It's the internet and social networking ...... it's giving people ideas above their station.
Youtube, Facebook and Twitter have a lot to answer for.

I think that to say that this trial was non-political and purely ''judicial'' is being niave in the extreme. The Cairo supporters, or Ultras, were in the vanguard of the movement to topple Murbarak and the subsequent interim military regime. Is any one really surprised that the Port Said supporters were sentenced to death by a Cairo court last week?

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2011/11/201111284912960586.html

A good Al Jazeera reference for you all. I couldn't find one on Fox News!

@NigeeBaby, you said: 'The point I was trying, and obviously failing, to make was that replacing one regime/head of state/ruler/political system, etc, etc does not guarantee things will be better'

I think you will find that i've been saying this for ages, I usually cite the example of Russia, it was an authoritarian dictatorship under the Tzars, and then after the revolution the Soviet Union was an authoritarian dictatorship under the Soviets, and then after the fall of the Soviet Union the Russian Federation continues to be run like an authoritarian dictatorship under Valdamir Putin's United Russia Party...

The same ould be said of the French revolution. It leads to death and destruction, and any people to conclude that the 'natural order' - rulers ruling and the majority of people held down in their place - was better. The EVEN the poor were better off when they knew their place and stayed there, because the chaos of the revolution was such a terrible evil (and i feel certain that many member of the Catholic Church would have, over the centuries supported this statement)

Better still is the example of the decolonisation of Africa - tens of countries lost their administrative class, the foreigners who ran them, and organised their institutions, and the best people to take their place were simply those collaborators who had been working with the colonising forces.

However the general principle was for the locals to take the power left and run things pretty much the only way they knew how, which was the way the colonial powers had been running things...

The principle is simple, Change is hard, change takes time.

So yes, you're failing to illustrate your attempted point. So perhaps thinking will help you explain what you're attempting to get at.

UAE - there is a good friend of the West - democracy, no thanks !!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21226174

'Political parties and demonstrations are banned in the UAE'
'The authorities have been accused of deporting and harassing human rights defenders, denying legal assistance to political detainees, and intimidating and deporting lawyers seeking to assist detainees.'

Do you think that would put off the USA and the UK ...... no way, where there is money there is mutual understanding. Human rights......wtf !!

The United States was the third country to establish formal diplomatic relations with the UAE and has had an ambassador resident in the UAE since 1974. The two countries have enjoyed friendly relations with each other and have developed strong government-to-government ties including a close security cooperation. The quality of US-UAE relations increased dramatically as a result of the U.S.-led coalition's campaign to end the Iraqi occupation of Kuwait. UAE ports host more U.S. Navy ships than any port outside the U.S.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Arab_Emirates%E2%80%93United_Kingdom_relations

'On her second visit in 2010, The Queen spent 2 days touring the Zayed Museum and visiting dignitaries of the Ruling Family, whilst her Secretary of State for Foreign & Commonwealth Affairs (The Rt. Hon. William Hague) signed the Abu Dhabi Declaration 2010 with His Highness Sheikh Abdullah Bin Zayed Al Nahyan, UAE Minister of Foreign Affairs, reaffirming the 1971 friendship treaty between the two nations. His Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh also signed a Memorandum of Understanding in his role as Chancellor of Cambridge University with His Highness Sheikh Nahyan Bin Mubarak Al Nahyan, UAE Minister of Education.'

Everybody has their price but I ask what price human rights. Maybe if we don't look it is not really happening, same goes for Bahrain, Oman, etc

IN YOUR FACE EVERYONE WHO MOCKED ME FOR OPPOSING THE ARAB SPRING.

This is exactly what I said would happen day 1 of the protests. That the guy in power would be replaced by an Islamic extremist who would be terrible for the people, the country, and the world.

2002 called -- they want their all caps forum post technique back.

2013 called 2002, the technique was never copy righted :P

No, but it was copy wronged as being the most annoying and hard to read way of emphasizing a point.

fasces... im still mocking your ass