I though Romney trounced Obama on the economy and the rest was quite close, with Obama getting the better on health care. Nobody's buying Mitt's love of federalism. Romney may not have had some huge moment where the race broke towards him, but the nonsense about how an Obama win is inevitable should be gone after tonight.

This debate also was also exactly what a presidential debate ought to be. Both men talked almost exclusively about policy and made it clear that there was a clear choice between them. I hope the rest are like that, but I have my doubts.

Perhaps Obama supporters, in the wake of his disappointing debate performance, will now stop treating his victory like a foregone conclusion- a dangerous attitude which I was beginning to think would drain his campaign of enthusiasm and ultimately cost him the election. That is to say, I actually believe the tightening of polls in the wake of this debate will, in the long run, help Obama more than it harms him. There's my two cents.

Interesting take, YHN. Problem is, a 5% lead is enough to win with or without enthusiasm, whereas a .5% lead puts you at risk of losing -- again with or without enthusiasm.

But this is all very speculative, since we don't yet know how the polls will respond. Interesting take, as I say.

put redhouse in the whitehouse

My two cents - I don't think either candidate "won" but it doesnt really matter what I think. Both Economic plans would work given enough time to actually work, but since half the country hates whatever policy is put in place it doesnt matter cause we act like a bunch of 5 year olds living on icecream and pixie sticks.

Being president seems to have become less about actually doing good for the US/ World population and become more about doing what seems to be the polar opposite of what the rival party wants. Now obviously that isnt fully true, but it does seem a little like recess in grade school

did any of that make sense, probably not, oh well

Now I will refrain from coming back here for fear of krellin calling me names and using lots of CAPS!

I think Obama expected a different kind of Mitt Romney and a different kind of debate...

He CLEARLY was going out of his way to try and come across as the more civil and calm and measured of the two, and I still think that was a strength of the debate...

But since no one expected Mitt Romney to be THAT energetic and THAT aggressive, it was a strength overshadowed, and thus it resulted in what was, if not outright defeat, certainly not at all a victory for him tonight.



The GOOD news (if you're an Obama fan) is that not only do we know Obama CAN turn on the passion when he wants to (he used it to great effect to win in '08, after all) but whereas Romney used up most of the barbs at his disposal tonight, Obama didn't even TOUCH his stash:

He still has the Bain fiasco, the 47% comment, Romney's image as an elitist...the fact that Obama has been (and still was tonight, according to the CNN tracker) overall relatively popular with the women vote, which didn't go nearly as strongly for Romney as the male vote tonight did...

All of that and more he has to use against him and turn up the heat, which he can now justifiably do, since Romney approached a calm, civil Obama as if wielding a verbal chainsaw, as one CNN panelist put it...

Which wasn't a bad strategy, and it won the night for him, but as he gets his facts fact-checked (CNN already busted some for both candidates) and it comes time for the second debate, with expectations RAISED for Romney this time and Obama with all his verbal ammunition still to go through...

As of the end of the debate, obi, you were saying "Tie goes to the incumbent." Now you're saying that it was, "if not outright defeat, certainly not at all a victory for him tonight." What changed?

tl;dr: Liberals think Romney was an aggressive, irrational jerk and Obama was a cool-headed rational actor who will step it up next time, conservatives think Romney has more strength than imagined and can handle Obama, who turned into a wimp, and independents are still convinced there's not substantive difference between the two. One of them will still be elected, we'll still be bombing brown people into the Stone Age when we aren't imprisoning them for no reason, and nothing will change.

Yeah you seem to have summed up what I was attempting to ramble before

There we no new information in the debate at all. It was a rehashing of bad policies by two people with no idea what people really want. I don't think there was an upset here. The debate was not only boring but it seemed like it catered to people who don't pay any attention to politics.
Throwing out random stats and numbers which people ultimately don't vote on, they vote down staunch moronic political parties. A small 6% of undecideds who live in holes came out largely still confused about what a faucet is, and who Mittens is running against.

PE has said it best.

Democrats are still going to vote for Obama, Republicans are still going to vote for Romney, and the 15% who haven't made up their minds yet didn't watch the debate anyway, so they'll get their impressions of it from Jon Stewart and that one guy at work who's really into politics, as usual.

Someone did wonders in Romneys debate prep

Im just puzzled why Obama didn't take the offense. How are you not going o contend Romey's "I am a unifier" lines by pointing out that he wrote off nearly half of the country in earshot of cameras. How are you not going to call romney out for being a political chameleon? Elevating the debate is one thing, ignoring easy and valid attacks on the opponent is another.

Is it possible that Obama expected Romney to disqualify himself with extreme and condescending statements about poor people and found Romney to keep these sentiments very well in check, something Obama hadn't geared up for?

I don't know why he would think that. Romney tailors his behavior to his audience. He was talking to moderates today as he will in all the debates. The trick is to remind him and the viewers of what he said when he is palling around with the tea party or mega rich business leaders. Obama let him do his thing, what was the use of the bruising primary season if you aren't going to poke the bruises

"Democrats are still going to vote for Obama, Republicans are still going to vote for Romney, and the 15% who haven't made up their minds yet didn't watch the debate anyway, so they'll get their impressions of it from Jon Stewart and that one guy at work who's really into politics, as usual"

That's not really true, though, is it? The big problem Romney was facing was that a hell of a lot of traditional Republican voters where having serious doubts about whether they could vote for someone like Mitt. This debate has done a lot to counter that and, if he can keep up his good performance, this will be a mighty victory for him on the road to election night.

Obama, on the other hand, has done very little to motivate those who voted for him last time and have become somewhat disillusioned after realising that when he said "yes we can" he wasn't being entirely truthful.

In short, big progress made by Romney.

Out of interest, why the hell have you Yanks created a system with all of these debates only to allow people to vote before even getting a chance to hear them?

"The big problem Romney was facing was that a hell of a lot of traditional Republican voters where having serious doubts about whether they could vote for someone like Mitt. This debate has done a lot to counter that and, if he can keep up his good performance, this will be a mighty victory for him on the road to election night."

Romney's problem hasn't been the base; the Republican base is going to turn out simply to vote not-Obama. Romney's *entire campaign to this point* has been not-Obama rhetoric, even though their policies are vastly similar. His problem has been differentiating himself to moderates in a constructive manner, because when he *has* differentiated himself it's been in ways like the 47% comment - out-of-touch at the best and campaign suicide at the worst.

Who's a big fat liar? Obama!
Who's the biggest liar? Obama!
Who's gonna get fired in November? Obama!

Hey now Romney did his fair share of lying on there as well.

"Out of interest, why the hell have you Yanks created a system with all of these debates only to allow people to vote before even getting a chance to hear them?"

States each have their own early voting laws. Some, for whatever bizarre reason, let people send ballots in this early in October. Not many, though.