I don't know how it is in other regions, but here in Michigan, they've totally put the screws on frats after a few incidents of death from alcohol poisoning. Several universities have tried to distance themselves from the Greek system in general. This has just pushed them off campus, but had the added effect of the frats and sororities actually trying very hard to be seen as "not so bad." So I'd say...be observant, but I think you should trust him.

If he is at Uni, then he is 18. How are you gonna *stop* him from getting involved if he wants to? And, while not a frat boy myself, I believe the fraternities do provide future networking connections for later in life. So I'd research the specific one, but realize he is an adult and will do what he wants to do. Don't tell him "no" but instead talk to him about it and research it together, trusting him to make a sound choice.

UA in Tucson? The Greek system is excellent if you are the fraternal sort. Numerous relatives attended UA on my wife's side.

Draug is right, you can't stop him so back off :P

I partied with some frat boys back in the day... and unless you have a problem with hanging out with attractive women and drinking copious quantities of beer, you should probably just let the boy have his fun.

Draugnar, yellowjacket, you are both wrong. If he is paying for his kids college, car insurance, or something similar he can stop him very easily with a few words like: "You join that frat and we stop paying for your..."

@Draug

He's 17 (skipped a grade) and he's more asking for my blessing than anything else, and the president of the Frat prefers that all parents be on board with the idea of pledging

It's a chapter at the University of Alabama, and their record is damn near spotless. They even have mandatory 3hr daily study blocks for all pledges. That might just be the BS they're feeding me, but it doesn't sound too bad

I think I'm gonna let him do it

Who else attended W&M besides Rancher? I am currently enrolled here so this is mainly out of curiosity

@Hugo - If the fraternity is that concerned, then it sounds like a positive experience in the end.

@Egnt K - Long time no see! Where you been hiding out?

@jmo - You used the key word, *if*. *If* he is paying for this and that and the other thing. We didn't know (and technically still don't know) that this was true. Of course, the additional details that have come to light make it a moot point, but your assumption mommy and daddy were paying for everything is a dangerous assumption. I paid for my own *everything* when I was in college. For the first year, I paid my parents rent (my dad was a hard ass about that kind of thing) and then got an apartment after that with a couple of freinds. So you assumed he had mommy and daddy footing the bill. But I tell you, when my dad tried that even though I was paying him rent, I walked out the door and got my own apartment. Best thing ever happened to me was telling my dad to go get fucked. And yes, having been in the Corp, I used those exact words. The two greatest moments in my life were when my dad hit me for nothing and I decked him (earned his respect) and when I told him to go get fucked (moved out on my own and proved I didn't need him any more).

Don't know why I posted all that, but there it is...

You should let him do it. I'm in a fraternity and couldn't even imagine my college experience without it. Your son's gonna make some of the best friends of his life.

He's on a scholarship, been working for years and doesn't own a car or anything like that, so i'm (surprisingly) not too monetarily invested in his college life.

(sorry, i kind of like to brag about my kids)

Brag away. It means you raised them right.

Draugnar aren't you in the Ghost Ranking #1 game with me?

There is only one greek organization on my campus that I view as legitimate - a sorority, Delta Gamma. The *only* people I know that are greek that I respect are in that sorority. And from what I hear, fraternities are far worse than sororities.

I would recommend to him that he not join. But it is ultimately his decision, and making it for him is only going to distance you and your son. I'm not sure what the situation is, but I wouldn't feel as though you need to pay the (rather extensive, from what I hear) dues for the fraternity though.

Yes, but I meant on here, Agent K. OI don't know who you are in that game and I don't even try to figure it out, honestly.

jmo any young adult who lets his parents manipulate him with that kinda bullshit after the age of 18 deserves having those hooks in his skin the rest of his life (and they will be!). I vividly remember how proud of myself I was the first time in my adult life I told my folks, "Your opinion has been noted."

For me, it was when I moved in with a girl.

"Well, good thing you're not signing the lease or paying the rent."

Mine was really sad looking back on it, I got in a fistfight with my dad the night before i left for college
Haven't spoken since

@agentK -- there is a guy here W&M2010 or something like that ... he stabbed me pretty bad in a game if I rememeber right ... don't know if he was in the greek system though!

But moms can still guilt trip you, even at 45... :-)

So if UA had meant U of Arizona I would have said hell no.

That is the biggest party school in the nation and the frats are even more out of control than at UT lol.

I can't comment on U Alabama but it is a state school so.... you really can't know. I would tell your son to be careful and to think hard about joining - tell him that joining a frat means giving up a measure of independence and personality. This is simply true - you trade it for "guaranteed" friends and fun. But you end up dressing and thinking like the others in the frat.

Frat boys are degraded by the rest of us for a reason - they tend not to be as smart. However this does not at all mean that JOINING a frat causes you to become stupid. So if your son is smart, sounds like he is, and responsible, he will probably be okay.

If it was me I wouldn't do it... didn't, but I'm not your son and everyone leads his own life.

Just tell him to be careful and guard his independence I'd say.

I should also mention - a lot of people see it as a way to network. This is true, you meet a lot of people. But the people you meet are in the Greek system. You don't really meet the "normal" people much. Tell him to keep that in mind too - if he has no issue always hanging out with Greeks, then okay, but if he likes others kinds of people too, may want to think harder.

smiley what college do you go to i have heard similar things about DGs

He's always been a good judge a character and has been able to keep a varied group of friends throughout most of his life. He's not the typical "Frat Boy", but he'll be able to relate to them just as well as the other students.

I think he's just a bit worried about making solid friends in a place where he's known as a "Yankee"

I was in a fraternity. What thucy just said is bull shit. You do meet people outside of the greek world. Any Fraternity house is filled with non-greek students on any given day, studying, hanging out etc. The point that Fraternitys are filled with the same kind of people is bunk also. I met people of all kinds in fraternities. I was a nerd, we had a bunch of jocks, theater people etc. If anything a Fraternity made me more comfortable with who I am and who I was before joining. I have lifelong friends who are completely different from me and who i would never have met outside the fraternal setting.I interact with people better because most people I meet are completely analagious to one of the 70 brothers I had in school.

Also Thucy's point about Fraternitys not being smart is bull shit. In most schools the Fraternity average is higher than the school wide average.

There is alot of misinformation about Fraternities as seen by thucys posts. The question you should ask your son is "What does your Fraternity Stand for" If its all about partying, tell him its a waste of money, if its about helping him become a more complete man, he should go for it. Also tell him to steer clear if they haze him. The use of Hazing is a red flag showing you that the Fraternity is no good.

And this "Frat Boy" nonsense is another thing. There is no such thing as a typical "Frat Boy." There is a "Bro" culture that goes way beyond Fraternity life i college that is overrepresented in Fraternitys, true. But anyone who spends enough time with a legit Fraternity knows that there is no "typical" Frat guy. I don't know how many times myself and every Fraternity guy I know got "You don't act like a frat guy"

What... you mean I don't act like a drunk guy at a party? Because thats the only way most non greeks encounter "Frat Boys" when you come to our house and drink our beer. So every guy who isn't drunk and partying all of a sudden (Doesn't act like a Frat guy)

Okay fair enough Santa I guess I should add the caveat that I can only speak for my own university - I know plenty of people in the Greek system there though and they agree with me quite frankly. Lol.

And yes I suppose I was describing the "bro" culture but quite frankly... every guy in a frat I have ever met was a "bro." That is not to say he was an asshole or an idiot, but he was a bro. Frats tend to be fairly homogenous at least here.

It really does depend on the school then I guess. Where did you go Santa?

Also santa why do you put a space between bull and shit you stupid frat boy... lol

@Thucysides

Probably because it's two words

From a distance drama clubs look homogeneously homosexual. Does that mean that they are homogeneously homosexual? What? I am making sweeping generalizations? Maybe this one is the same. And from your sweeping generalizations I can see that you are not speaking from close experience. I do not believe for a second that even a majority of guys in a fraternity gives up his personality and his friends when he joins a fraternity even in your school. Bottom line is you see Greek letters on a sweatshirt and a stereotype says the rest. The same stereotypes your greek friens think are hilarious (because they know they are untrue) so they joke about them. Im not trying to be a dick, I am speaking from experience. And yes there are some fraternities that live up to the stereotype, but for all the good fraternities do, even the "Bro" bunch, it would not be smart to damn them all.

tbh you would be best not to restrict his growth. he getting older and you should let him make his own decisions.

im not in a frat (my uni doesnt have them) but there are positives and negatives it depends on your son and the frat in question.

This is what I know Santa - if you are in a frat you are obligated to wear polos in the summer with pocketless khaki shorts, in the winter you are obligated to wear dark gray north face fleeces with wrangler jeans and new balance shoes.

i shit you not - they make them change if they wear something else. this i know from asking them about it. i also know because a third of my campus wears it. tell me how that doesnt stifle individuality lol

i dont hate frats or something so no need to get defensive, i just want to be accurate and honest about my advice - that is a big reason i myself would not join a frat at my school

"This is what I know Santa - if you are in a frat you are obligated to wear polos in the summer with pocketless khaki shorts, in the winter you are obligated to wear dark gray north face fleeces with wrangler jeans and new balance shoes.

i shit you not - they make them change if they wear something else. this i know from asking them about it. i also know because a third of my campus wears it. tell me how that doesnt stifle individuality lol"

I have NEVER hear of a fraternity that does this and I completely doubt it. If ANY do this it is one cultish fraternity and they in no way represent the mainstream.

"i dont hate frats or something so no need to get defensive, i just want to be accurate and honest about my advice - that is a big reason i myself would not join a frat at my school"

I am not getting defensive, I'm attacking complete misinformation about the general fats about fraternity life.

A 2006 study which was published in the American Journal of Economics and Sociology found that fraternity and sorority members suffered from 1 to 10 percent lower cumulative GPAs than non-Greek students. This negative effect was most pronounced for small fraternities and weakest for sororities.

Thucydides proven correct.

Fag-Naur. You spoke to your own father like that and you actually hit him?

You're going to Hell.

Godfrey: Yes, Hell: where Satan belches fire, and enormous devils break wind
both night and day! Hell: where the mind is never free from the
torments of remorse, and your bottom never free from the pricking
of little forks!

Duke: NNoooo! Spare me the little forks!

"A 2006 study which was published in the American Journal of Economics and Sociology found that fraternity and sorority members suffered from 1 to 10 percent lower cumulative GPAs than non-Greek students. This negative effect was most pronounced for small fraternities and weakest for sororities.

Thucydides proven correct."

1. Cite the Study
2. Define Fraternity and Sorority in the study

The facts you provide go against what I have seen in countless schools

"I have NEVER hear of a fraternity that does this and I completely doubt it. If ANY do this it is one cultish fraternity and they in no way represent the mainstream."

It is commonplace at the University of Texas, especially with the white frats.

That is also something that bothers me about the Greek system; it is for the most part racialized. Our yearly frat party weekend festival "Round Up" has its roots in racial hate by white frats.

Also, I am not trying to TELL you what your frat is/was like Santa. I'm not doubting you. For you to doubt me about my own school is a bit presumptuous though.

Also what school DO you go to? I am genuinely curious. I know I have heard that Greeks in the south are much more the negative stereotype than other areas, I don't know if this is true I only really know Texas, Arizona, in that regard.

http://www.dailytexanonline.com/news/2011/04/13/racial-conflicts-tarnish-history-roundup

"A 2006 study which was published in the American Journal of Economics and Sociology found that fraternity and sorority members suffered from 1 to 10 percent lower cumulative GPAs than non-Greek students. This negative effect was most pronounced for small fraternities and weakest for sororities."

Be careful. Correlation does not equal causation. It could very well be the case that lower GPA students are more attracted to greek life, while top end students are not.

North East

and i graduated 5 years ago

yeah like i said on the subject of the whole unintelligent thing - the fact of joining or being in a frat i do not believe MAKES you less smart. i just commented that for the most part they are perceived as less intelligent.

i think the study mentioned doesnt prove much in fact esp. since its only 1-10 percent.

SantaClausowitz, don't let these deeges get to you.

It's impossible to generalize what goes on in fraternities. I barely know what happens in the house next store, let alone in all of them.

@Thucy:

I'm at the University of Tenneseee.

@Hugo
General good advice, not knowing the specifics, would be to call him back, apologize for your part in it, and let him know you still care about him.

I roomed with some Frat Boys a while back, on the whole they were nice enough, but they partied VERY HARD. Not kidding, I didn't know you could fit that many people in a small student house...

It really depends on the fraternity, a lot of frats are extreme party houses, some aren't. Some are very studious and meant for people with high GPAs and academic achievement.

Given that Fraternities are primarily a social thing, I'd advise your son to hang out a bit with the other fraternity members and see how he feels about them, as he'll be seeing a lot of them! If he feels like he really get along well with them, he should go ahead. If, on the other hand, he only mildly enjoys being with them, or only likes one or two other members, I'd reccomend him to give it a pass.

I spent a year in Scotland, the University of Edinburgh, and I'm at Boise State now. I've just had no interest in Frats, mostly because I'm very socially contained on my own. I play D&D with some guys who are in one of the Frats here, so as far as I can tell, Frats are just like any set of human beings. They have their own dimensions of variation and their own systems to determine worth.

I would just say, get to know several of the people in the Frat well before deciding on joining or not. You are stuck with your brothers forever.

I say, let him do it. Just make sure that he learns to drink from you and not from his frat buddies.