yeah he is.

tell all of us who it is so we can hunt them down and vanquish them.

plus he appears to be retarded

haha!

sounds like a hollow threat to me. Unless you are in several games with him then... who gives a shit?

meta-gaming AND stupid.

Though the whole things could just be a threat - part of a legitimate strategy to scare you.

The stupidity is that once he has declared you his enemy in all games you have knowledge of what he's going to do. He loses the ability to try and be your friend and then stab you later. This is fairly poor diplomacy, unless it's a lie and part of a strategy.

Given that possibility, and the standing unspoken rule of not discussing on-going games, i'm not going to comment any further, except to say, once the game is over any End of Game (EoG) statements from the player should clarify if he actually means it.

its still still metagaming to do so no matter if he has some ridiculous strategy or not. he threatened him outside of the game.

No, to be metagaming he also has to tell you that he's going to rip off your head and shit down your neck, right?

this is clearly metagaming, please report it to the mods so that they can investigate and then do nothing

No! It's not Meta-Gaming - it is only a threat to MetaGame - like Orathaic says, it could well be a part of the strategy, after-all aren't we entitled to say what we feel to persuade our opponents? There is a VERY BIG difference between saying that you will do something and actually do something. I am reminded of my wife telling me that you may look but not touch - it is exactly the same frame of mind.

no you cant pm someone that in the middle of the game its taking outside factors and brining them into the game environment.

Also - what is the background? Have you done something in-game to annoy ****** ?

???? Why not PM someone ????

Are there rules saying that you cannot?

Unless it is a gunboat - in which case yes that is breaking the boundaries.

you do not. its unethical and strong arm intimidation tactics. threats of metagaming are essentially metagaming in my book

But unless it actually is... it is not.

LOGIC???

"First, kill all the lawyers".

The concept of metagaming is that each game is supposed to be played in on its own merits, trying, AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, to ignore past results, alliances, and actions. Admittedly, one cannot ignore whether a person proved trustworthy in the past. However, there is a world of difference between thinking inside your head that you may not trust this person, and declaring that if you are ever in a game with them, you will attempt to kill them regardless of the circumstances.

Does this mean I think this person should be banned from playing? No. Is this person declaring in advance that he is totally incapable of reviewing each game and alliance on its own merits. Hell yes. And that's metagaming, counselor, regardless of the legalistic viewpoint.

Indy - has he actually committed the crime of meta gaming? Unless he has - I consider this to be a threat - nothing more. This seems to be a case of a thought crime - convict before he has committed.

How does one "prove" the crime of metagaming? If he is in a game with this person and he attacks this person, how do you know it was because of his statement and not because the situation dictated it was wise to attack him?

This is a End of Game PM. Part of it. In the game, he actually defeated me. In a tipical way of metagamers: alliance unbreakalbe from start to beggining, and not stabing even when he could have won.
I know he has only said he would do metagame and not done it actually, but in case i join a game with him and he acts as he sais, i would have proof of metagaming, right?
He could just have hunted me down for some unknown reason, but since i have this MP, this proves that his reason for hunting me down is metagame, right?

Yes, it's absolutely metagaming. Metagaming is taking anything outside of the game into account in making a decision. By even mentioning that there are games outside of the one you're playing, he is metagaming. And in my opinion, all metagaming should be bannable.

That being said, my opinion is clearly not the majority of users, and is unlikely to be adopted by the mods anytime soon.

And I looked at the game you're talking about. There is some (somewhat weak) evidence of cheating. I'm reporting it to the mods, as should be done.

I have a different point of view. I would be much more concerned about my diplomatic savy that caused someone to want to be my eternal enemy than whether or not it is metagaming. Even when you stab someone brutually, you can always do some things to re-build some bridges so that they can work with you again. I would learn from this and re-visit the conversations and moves that created such a passionate response from him.

Chainsaw Diplomacy:

http://www.diplom.org/Zine/W1998A/Windsor/Chainsaw.html

That's metagaming

There's somewhere in the rules (if not then read it as 'common sense') that threatening to break the rules was against the rules.
I've PMd the player in question reminding them of this

But he did it in the EoG, right? That alters the situation considerably, doesn't it Figle?

That's Numberwang.

hey figle - sorry to intrude, but to threaten metagaming - does this cross the barrier between what you can say and what you cannot say? If the player is actually committing serious serial character assassination then yes - but are they doing so? From what I have seen this seems a threat - and whilst it may not be in the spirit of WebDip it certainly fall in the spirit of free press that was advocated in the original rules of diplomacy.

my issue is this:

Does the threat to metagame constitute a breach of the rules
OR
Does the actual act of metagaming do this???

I'm not a mod and can't see how deep this goes, but it does seem to me like it is an instance of Chainsaw diplomacy.

as a threat - not an act.

The fact that it was in an End of Game statement removes the possibility of it being a strategic threat. At that point why else would he say than if he meant it? Certainly not for any in-game reason.

This is clearly metagaming. The asshole in question needs a mod-kicking. But he won't get one.

"its unethical and strong arm intimidation tactics. threats of metagaming are essentially metagaming in my book" - unethical and strong arm tactics have been part of the game of diplomacy from the beginning (friendships have been ruined, relationships broken up, families split apart, but all according to the rules of the boardgame)

"But he did it in the EoG, right? That alters the situation considerably, doesn't it Figle?"

Yes, very different from the situation as i read it. Pathetic if you ask me, but given this knowledge I think entering a game knowing that one opponent if gunning for you exclusively you are advantaged by out of game knowledge.

I'm afraid you can't play him without meta-gaming either (unless you forget this message, or both of you change your usernames - ie delete current account and setup new accounts...)

I don't think it is meta-gaming unless you are both guilty of it. (the rules for meta-gaming for this site specifically state: "...This is known as metagaming and is against the rules because it gives an unfair advantage to those involved." - so the spirit of the rules would be broken if you joined games to specifically take advantage of this 'out of game knowledge')

It continues "If you are worried that you can't stab someone because you want to stay friends, then that's fair enough but you can't join a game with them." - well in this case it is the opposite, and i think equally neither of you SHOULD join a game with the other.

On the other hand the responsibilities of webdiplomacy specifically say

"Use common sense and respect other players." - Just my opinion, but this message fails both common sense and respect.

Of course, if you only played him in anonymous games, then you could do so knowing you weren't metagaming and that he'd have to figure out who you were to meta against you.

thx fidgle. Always nice to have you around. youre becoming my new hero here :)

Also, to those that say that it may be strategic trick, as it has been said, its EoG, so there's no strategic reason.

And lastly, to orath, i may play him again, but that's mainly because i never look at the usernames, and even then, i don't keep mental or physical records of my previous games with other players. And of course, i don't look at other people records.
In my book, all those are metagaming.

BTW: it would be nice a feature to change username, keeping records and points, or at least, to hide somehow your records, and hide also your username even when the annon game has ended.

@Dailchi: post your suggestions on the developer's forum if you like.

forum.webdiplomacy.net

Personally I think your extreme stance goes above and beyond the spirit of the meta-gaming rules. I don't think remember the player's you come up against has a net negative effect on the community here or my own play. I have argued extensively to keep the leagues non-anon specifically because getting to know players makes games against them more fun. Good luck in your diplomacy career!

@Daii - well then all you'd have to do was look at a players history and remember that instead. Just changing the user-name wouldn't give anonymity.

I honestly don't understand why people play non-anonymous games.

Because we like to chat with WebDip comrades we know who are playing in the game and we need to know what nation they control to chat with them in game. This is not metagaming as we treat them the same as any other player in so far as negotiations and orders go.

ah, how I miss Bask's posts in discussions on metagaming. I can't believe we lost him to the dark side!

Draugnar: "Bask, you do not yet realize your importance. You have only begun to discover your power. Join me, and I will complete your training. With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy. "
Bask: I'll never join you!
Darth Draugner: If you only knew the power of the Dark Side. MadMarx never told you what happened to your father.
Bask: He told me enough! He told me *you* killed him!
Darth Draugner: No. *I* am your father. 17 17 draws are against the intent of Diplomacy.
Bask: No. No. That's not true. That's impossible!
Darth Draugnar: Search your feelings, you *know* it to be true!
Bask: [anguished] No! No!

Wow! I love that casting! Me, a Sith Lord... Perfect!

I know i'm pretty extremist and that's why i am not asking to implement those features.
Draug, we think similarly, but unfortunately, not everyone thinks like us. If they did, i wouldn't mind everything being public.

Also, i have recieved new msg from this guy:
"I am still laughing my ass off as I send this to you. I knew you were a weak player, but now I learned what an insecure little child you are. You sent my earlier message to you to the "management" of Webdiplomacy. I knew it drove you crazy that I somehow turned that game around so you got your butt kicked, but I had no idea how weak you were mentally and emotionally that you felt you could strike back at me by crying to the judge like a pouting little boy. I have had to stop typing this several times, as I keep laughing so hard I can't type accurately. This is great!!!
Good bye, daiichi. Please get some professional help for yourself!!"
BTW: bigjake it's his name.

Re-reading the rules i have just read this:
"Use common sense and respect other players."
"You are welcome and indeed encouraged to join in with the community but be sensible. Try to keep replies relevant to the conversation and don't start too many threads at once. Before posting a question relating to the software please read the FAQ."

Does not that mean that trolling the forum (like we know a few players that did so intensely) or harrasing people via PM is a ofense? And should not it be banable?

Daiichi, he's a dick. Laugh it off.

He's a pathetic one at that.

He's clearly baiting you, albeit, not very well, so just ignore him.

I'm rather amazed that someone with a 90% win-draw rate is so insecure as to feel the need to make fun of the people he beats. Sounds like a rather classy player.

Also, lol @ Darth Draugnar and Baskineli Skywalker

"Darth Draugnar and Baskineli Skywaker" - thanks, Eden, it's a great branding!

Daiichi, they are right, he is just enjoying getting under your skin. You have the support of 99% of the community here (most of us 25 - 50), so just let it go and let him act like the adolescent. The more you respond, the more enjoyment he gets out of it.

@Daiichi - I concur with the rest. Laugh it off and let it go. But I still disagree that the threat of metagaming in an EoG or after the game is done qualifies as metagaming. It isn't like it is affecting an ongoing game so, unless he follows up on it, it isn't metagaming as it had no effect on a game. Had it been said during the game, my view would be completely different.