By pro, do you mean asking for advice and then immediately leaving?

It wasn't a legit question so much as a "had to toot my own horn". As I said, I'm gonna start playing 2 or 3 nights a week. Just suppliment my income from my day job. What is commonly called "semi-pro". If I went pro, it would become work and stop being fun. I want it to stay fun.

That is cool though. Are you playing irl or online?

IRL at Hollywood Casino in Lawrenceburg Indiana. 1-3 no limit.

I much prefer F2F cash games where I can get a read on my opponents.

Agreed. I don't find online poker fun at all.

I have to say, though, I'm very glad there isn't a casino close enough to me that I could go multiple times in a week : )

If you looked at a map, I live closer to the casino than my own office by about 2 miles.

I'm impressed that that hasn't ended in disaster. Are they at least in opposite directions?

Yes, that they are. It takes about 20 minutes to get to either of them from my house or about 30 minutes between them (I live 5 minutes off the highway). I never risk more than I can spare, usually OT like the $300 I used as my stake this week. And I have had off days occassionally, but I usually recognize what is happening and quit when half my stake is gone.

If you do go pro, don't invest significant funds in it. Instead, only play with what you've already gotten from the game and nothing else (or in a frenzy, you could bet your car or something).

Don't go overboard, but if you do go overboard, go *really* overboard.

/horrible advice

I've been playing for about 4 years now. I only ever risk extra money after the bills are paid and I always put half my winnings in my Corvette savings account. When the account hits 30K, I'm picking up a 93 to 96 C4 to replace the 93 I had to give up about 8 years ago.

No skill in poker. I expected more from the Draug!

Over those 4 years how much have you won/lost?

I hadn't played for nearly a year and went out last week to a £15/$23 rebuy tournament I didn't need to rebuy but took my add on and then won £600/$937 after doing a deal at the final table. Enjoyed it immensely but now my wife wants me o go out every night! Maybe I shouldn't tell her when I win?

Draug - good luck with turning pro, if you are making good money in a 1-3 game then you don't need advice from me. But I'm curious - (and please don't take this the wrong way) how do you control you temper at the table and prevent going on tilt? I consider myself very even tempered and can smile when i'm knocked out on the bubble when an under set hits his 1 out, but even I have to walk away from the table for three hands after some bad beats. How do you manage this event?

@Kestas - I started playing $3-$6 limit which has less risk per hand, generally speaking but also less reward. It's nicked "no fold-em hold-em" because you can't push a big bet. Betting has to be done in increments and is generally capped at $12 or $24 depending on the street. I probably broke even there over the course of my first year playing poker.

When I moved up to a real no-limit game, I lost a little at first, but I was still only risking what I could spare, no more then $100 a night. I'd have good and bad but probably lost a grand in the first year. My second year of no-limit broke even or made a little extra, but I also started buying in with $200. It takes money to make money in poker.

Now I buy in with whatever I make above the first $1000 in my paycheck. This week I had a $1300 paycheck so I bought in for $300. Last week and the week before, I had a little less OT on the checks so the buy in was only $200 or $250.

@Maniac - My temper here comes about with the anonymity this place provides. Generally speaking, I'm easy going at the tables. My worst bad beat cost wise turned a $1400 chip stack into $800. I was in for $300 and that was profit from the night before (even with the beat, it was my best weekend ever). And I didn't lose my cool visibly. But I bled off another $200 then decided I was on tilt so cashed out. Now I get more frustrated whne I leave chips on the table. Last week, I promised my wife (she was right behind me) that I'd leave after my next playable hand or when the blinds reached me. Two hands later I had K10 suited. Flop came J 10 9. Nothing my suit, but middle pair and a gut shot. Checks around to me. I bet $25 hoping to push people off. Only one caller. Turns another J. He checks, I repeat the bet. He calls. River spikes a queen for me. He bets $50. I push. He stalls and stalls and even shows his cards (AQ suited, no flush draw though) trying to get a reaction from me. He finally folds and I win, but really lost as I probably could have just popped it a min raise to $100 and he would have called or even reraised then I push.

And, unless your wife is right there (as mine was last week) stash half of the winnings and only let her know about the other half. My wife was watching the night of that bad beat and was all upset that I "lost" $600 in that hand. She still reminds me about it and I have to keep reminding her it wasn't my money when I sat down, it was just what I had built up over the previous 3 or 4 hours. She's a little better now if I take a bad beat hit provided she sees a couple of red stacks or a couple black chips still in my stack. She understands that you have to risk it to make it and that I don't generally risk any of my stake once I'm up unless I've got the nuts and a fish on the line.

@Kestas - I forgot to mention. This month, I'm up a grand. On the year (2010) I'm up maybe 6 or 7 grand so far. I'm on track to earn 10 percent over my pay in 2010 and it's all tax free because they only track jackpots and tournament winnings. Cashing out chips is done at the cage and you don't have to show ID.

And then there was tonight... Lost $300 in about 3 hours. I've learned something new tonight. Well, two things actually: hour three is my bad hour (I've seen it before), and I show way to often - both great hands and bluffs. I was actually up $600 at one point tonight and bled it all off on decent but not the nuts hands in the last hour or so. So next week I stop after 2 hours and I muck absolutely every time I can. If I don't have to show, I'm not showing. We'll see if that improves things.
So, final weekend score: made $235. It paid for my wife's new glasses today.

Yeah Draug I personally almost never show. If the other players want that information make them pay for it. The only exception is showing a bluff or a good hand to give off a false table image.

The real witch of it all is I had $900 in front of me, triple my buy in, and got stupid. Nothing good ever happens after midnight. I got tired and got stupid. My last hand I had AJ. Everyone who stayed in limped. Flop comes 10 10 J. Checks around to me in the cut off. I bet $25. button calls everyone else folds. Turn is junk. I check, button bets $50. I should have known to fold then, looking back, but I call. Ace on the river. I check thinking I'm slow playing him stupidly not thinking he may have just a lowly 10. He bets $100. I all-in and he insta-calls. He flips A 10 for the boat. No one to blame but myself. I could have at least gotten out of that hand even calling that $100 with $250 left. Instead I threw away over $450 in one hand. Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! It wasn't even a tough read and I f-ing know better.

Bear in mind the guy who got that $900 is wondering whether he should go pro, and playing down the cash you won off him last week because he was tired/being stupid.

I also know someone else who tried to go pro, then he started trying to hustle friends, then he quit.

The thing about poker is there's not much difference between two experienced players, but there can be a huge short-term difference in how much two experienced players win/lose

Not quitting my day job and I never play cash games against friends. We just play a small WTA tourney at the office o couple of times a year. I keep my poker at the boat for the most part. Not to say I'm not friends with other regulars at the casino, but we all know we are playing poker and money comes first. Even the girl who called me a jackass a few weeks back for calling her $100 preflop raise with pocket 2s (I flopped a set) was back chatting me up to try and get me off my game Friday night. Oh, I did clean her out that hand. She had pocket rockets and went all in after the apparent junk flop. I insta-called of course. We *all* reminded her a big preflop bet was a sign of a small pair or a big Ace, but not the rockets.

Draug - glad you're not going pro if your calling $100 per flop raises with 2s. You will lose your shirt, car, house and wife in that order. What were you think you either had a very small edge or were a huge dog. You were only just ahead of a bluff. So you hit a set and got paid - so what? Call the same bet 100 times and then let me know if your winning.

*pre flop

I was up $300 and had bet $35 to push hands off and the girl only had $200. So it only cost me $65 to call her bet. Even if I lost on the all-in, I'm still up $100 and have plenty of time to rebuild the stack. I wish I had bowed out after that hand as I was up $500 when it was done. I still ended that afternoon up $275. I had the ladies once and big slick flop two pairs busted by smaller pockets that made their sets and bled some more off on AQ or AJ that didn't hit the flop a couple of times. My standard raise is $18 bucks so a couple of solid starting hands killed on the flop bleeds off money.

You should be careful.. "I'm only gambling with money I've won" is a very common rationalization (it never goes the other way)

I only risk money that isn't needed for bills. I have had weeks I didn't play for money because the bills were bigger (car repair, ER bill, whatever) and I just don't risk it. And I only "rationalize" like that within the weekend. Once I've moved into a new weekend, last weekend's winnings are untouchable for the tables. They are either in savings or used for the household (bought a TV one week, but my wife's new glasses a week early this week, and putting money into the "Corvette" savings account as I miss my baby and want another one)

mmm - i said i wasn't going to offer advice but....

How you had been doing previously or how you faired after this hand are to a large degree irrelevent. Winning poker means trying to play each hand as good as we can, it is no good playing 100 hands well and playing 1 so bad that we lose any pofit made in the other 100 hands.

Another way to win at poker is to recognise when you have played a hand poorly and learn from it.

If we analyse your play we see that pushing with 2s is fine on some occassions, your not playing your cards here and maybe your playing position or your table image. Both of which are fine, i play rags occassionally just to throw people of my rock game, but i play them sparingly - a little bluff and rag playing goes a long way.

However, we all push sometimes and then have to back off - you had a hand that was either 82/18% beat by a bigger pair or 53/47% infront of any other none paired hand. Calling the $65 not only gave you the worst of the odds but also went a long way to making you pot committed. Ask yourself, when you looked at your hole cards did you think, "i can't wait to get pot committed with these babies?" Of course you didn't.

The other problem with your call is that she only had another $100 after her raise. When you hit your 2 on the flop you have nearly a 90/10% chance of winning the hand, but you can only win $100. If she had had $650 left after her raise than it might have been worth occassionally calling a hoping for you roughly 1/10 chance of hitting a 2 on the flop because the reward for hitting (another $650) makes it worthwhile losing $65 on each of the other 9/10 times you make the same play when people hold the same cards.

Another problem with calling with 2s is that 9/10 times you don't know where you are on the flop - she could have been pushing with J8 and pushed again on a T, 7, 3 board and you would struggle to know where you are.

As I say, if you are a winning player, good luck to you, but there is always room to make more from certain hands and lose less on other hands. I think if you look at the hand you posted objectively, you should've folded when she raised to $100?

One further observation, you also state that your third hour isn't good. This might be because you losen your starting hand requirements when your winning - playing each hand as it comes up regardless of how your form is might help prevent these third hr blues.

If any of this has helped kindly send me 10% of all future winnings.

Maniac (but not at the poker table)

Maniac,

I'm never pot committed. Unlike some (even the pros), unless I am tired and stupid and can't get a real read, I will lay down hands because I know they are beat. I've had dealers hold cards back to show when I fold (not doing that any more). I've folded pocket aces when I've seen QJ10 on the flop and a river 9 knowing the other guy was calling my bets because he flopped up and down while I was gutted to broadway.

Oh, and it helps, but I'll pass on the 10%. Sorry dude. <grin>

Well then it sounds like you are all set drag. No need for advice from us. Good luck on the corvette fund!

It always gets me when Daniel Negraneau says exactly what the guy has and then calls him anyways because he is "pot committed". Dumbest stuff I see out of the pros.

Draugnar - i'm struggling to undestand your rational (which isn't a bad thing from your point of view, as it makes you hard to read I would imagine).

Suppose Daniel Hegraneau had played your hand and called with 2s. When she shoves on the flop there is now $300+ in the pot, it is $100 to call and he gets to see 2 cards. Suppose the flop is T73 rainbow. Whilst Daniel knows he is behind to AA, KK, QQ. JJ, 99, 88, 66, 55, 44 and he only has a 8% chance of overtaking these hands - he also knows she would push with AK, AQ, AJ, A9, KQ, QJ, J9, J8, 89, and he is either 71% ahead or only 45% behind to the open ended draws. For completeness he is almost drawing dead against TT, 77, 33 unless he hits perfect perfect but then she probably wouldn't push with those hands. The thing is there are far more permitations where he is winning or only just losing than there are circumstances where he is a big underdog. As the pot is offering 3:1+ odds, his call can be correct. He probably wouldn't get himself into a position where he was so pot committed with such a bad hand, but if he was in that position, his call would be correct - marginal yes, but correct all the same. One could argue that it would be more correct in tournament play depending on relative stake sizes, the blinds and antes and how far into the tournament he is.

I'm sure someone could give precise maths as to the odds and permitations after she pushes on the flop.

I mean on the river when he "knows" what his opponent has and still calls. No more turns, he knows he is beat (he is rarely ever wrong when he says what someone has), and yet he still calls and throws away the money. On the flop, and turn, fine. But when you just have an overpair and have analyzed the person got trips when the board paired based on whatever read you got just because you are "pot committed". If you have a read and trust it, ignore the pot and don't waste your money.

understood and I agree

Oh and I suck at tournaments, but do well at "sit and gos". It's the time thing, I'm sure. I have won a couple of 400+ player tournaments at ClubWPT.com and can normally money on them, but when you start breaking 1000 players, I get worse because of the time involved.