Don't attack Austria.

wish I did

Convince A or T to supp you into Greece in 1901

Yet there are people out there who insist that attacking Austria is the way to go . . .

So it's better to take the risk of going for gre in 1901 at the expense of tun?

I only attack Austria if Russia's on board, otherwise I try to Lepanto. I think attacking France or Germany first is a bad idea

Only idiots insist that. Asutria and ITaly are strongest when they work together. If they fight, one will get short term gains but be consumed by their "allies" behind them in the long run. The central alliance is the only three way that can survive the entire game.

I've seen many a Western Triple survive the entire game . . . they were carebears, but that's besides the point. So don't attack Austria . . . do what instead?

@peterwiggin There is no risk. You can easily take Tunis in 1902, no one else can reach it yet

well, i always attack austria since the very beginning, and i've won 1 game and drawn some others doing that

and yes I've been in 2 western triples that lasted the entire game

@crazyter
You have a good point there. Now, why would Austria or Turkey support Italy there?

That's where your persuasive diplomatic skill comes in...

Oh. I think those tend to go away when I draw Italy. Sometimes when I draw England too . . .

@checkmate-
thank you.

Or, to bring in tonight's other thread . . . what if it's gunboat and you draw Italy?

A Ven S F Tri H

And then the Austrians and Turks support me into gre?

Actually, as Turkey I have supported Italy into Greece, this is obviously to get rid of a very aggressive Austrian-Russian alliance, while also Giving Italy an alternate to the Lepanto.

Italy requires diplomatic skill, I would never suggest attacking Austria right away, but if you can work with Turkey, sometimes it can go your way.

Not that I know that much,, but it worked out, pretty well for Italy, put him on top.

On a side note, that game did end up in a Draw.

Hate... playing... italy...

I usually try for a lepanto but its so easy for Turkey to make it a complete fail unless Russia is being very aggresive in the Balkans.

The Lepanto opening through 1901 is solid. Even the builds are solid. That's what I would advise unless you've got assurances from Russia (on a Wintergreen) or Germany/England (French Fear) -- in the former, you blitz Austria, and in the latter you open west. Otherwise, the Lepanto gives you some variations:

anti-Turkish: standard Lepanto
anti-Austrian: convoy the army in Tunisia to Albania, slide into Trieste if possible from Venice; or, alternatively, take Adriatic in spring and support convoy to Trieste/convoy to Albania and go for Trieste with support
anti-French: Ven -> Pie, Nap -> ION, ION -> Tun, Tun -> NAf

The anti-French variation is really weak, though, so don't do it unless France commits his fleets north and overpursues into Germany (i.e. almost never), or unless you know that Germany and England are coming along for the ride.

When playing Italy, you have to realize you have a fabulous defensive position. Only French fleets can do you immidiate harm. With that in mind, I like to play a waiting game in the spring of the first year. Sound people out, see who is interested in an alliance and who is emretarded and won't write back. Do not open up on Austria unless he has declared war, but protect yourself. Watch everyone's move and try to figure out who is with who. Ideally, you will have an alliance by the fall of '01, but if not, take Tun with your fleet (Lepanto only with an alliance with Austria), build another fleet and continue the waiting game. If France builds a fleet in Mar, you're in trouble. It's always best to have France as a friend. I've personally played the waiting game fir 3 years with just a non-aggression pact with France before coming back to win, but that is a bit unusual. Ideally you want to get with Austria, Russia, France or Turkey by the Fall of 01 and move from there. The central triple is very hard to set up initially, start with Austria and work from there. If you can pull it off, that is the ideal.

My record with Italy is really good, though I've no idea why. I don't think I've used the Lepanto before, but generally it is all about getting a really good relationship with one of Turkey and Russia. You can then use this to be the lesser of two evils to the other, and from there start running things in the East. Meanwhile, trying to manipulate the West so that you have a shot at Iberia later on in the game.

You have to play a longer game than most other powers - you don't have the opportunity for explosive growth that others have.

Austria is the key - are you allied (in which case the Key Lepanto can be a great opening), or foes (in which case you need Russia as an ally). And winning - you need france not to be sending fleets your way in 1902, but England out of MAO as well

I've managed some pretty explosive growth as Italy, but you need to be willing to let it happen as it happens to an extent. I screwed up late game here (gameID=32226) but earlier on you can see some impressive growth (8SCs in 2 years, 10SCs in 3). If anything I came out of the blocks too strong.

I go with good Russian ally, and fairly dumb Austria there Ghost, but I'd say a 10SC Italy in 1904 is an exception to the norm, but that illustrates one way to success

I think the best thing to do as Italy is to ignore the East and convince England and Germany to attack France, each nation gets 2 SCs each, from there you can either convince England or Germany to attack the other, get England and Germany paranoid with talk of a juggernaut and all head east, then you can split Austria with Turkey and convince Turkey to attack Russia, then you have a pick of 3 potential allies who you have worked with before and should have some trust in you and then you solo! easy!

I've yet to see a successful attack on France for Italy. You leave England committed to the South having won only Brest and Portugal, and you need to leave as garrison all the units you gained and then some.

I'm with Ghost on this - a successful attack on Turkey is the only way to get a half-decent corner position. After that, either carve up Austria with Russia, or go after France and let Austria clean up on the mainland. I have seen successful Italies start by attacking Austria, but I've never managed it myself. You'd need Turkey and Russia to be dead set on killing each other to let you get enough of the pie

"I'm with Ghost on this - a successful attack on Turkey is the only way to get a half-decent corner position. After that, either carve up Austria with Russia..."

No you aren't, because I really don't see the need to attack Turkey from the get-go. So long as Russia doesn't go down, carve up Austria as you wish.

Ah yes, I didn't see your earlier post on this. Heh, I think the message from all of this is that there's no one winning strategy for Italy. But then, is there one winning strategy for any country?

18 SCs seems to work....

Ghost -- I'm currently in a game where I'd say I'm involved in a fairly successful attack on France that I committed to in Spring of 01.

I'll let you know how it turns out, but right now I have every French SC but Brest.

FOB, I'll be interested to look at how that pans out, and of course I'm not denying that it is possible to make it work, just that it is harder to make work/requires more luck or specific circumstances.

Of course, I've not seen all that many attacks on France by Italy full stop.

OK, if you want to start strong, make an alliance with Russia and attack Austria in 1901. Convince him that you need to relocate our efforts to Balkans and Turkey. Keep your armies at a stalemate there, and build to kill France. Find support into the MAO and then go to the NAO abd get Edinburgh. England will have no idea what hit him. During this, Russia is bound to leave his SC's wide open to you. And from there you take them and win.

Here are a couple of articles from the Zine if you like:
http://www.diplom.org/Zine/F2000M/Ray/italy.html
http://www.diplom.org/Zine/F1997M/Bergman/Italy.html

I have actually tried the second one in an e-mail game. It was going quite well until England was unable to submit moves for a couple of turns and got rolled by France and Germany (while Russia was run over due to his own incompetence), causing France to attack me a year or two earlier than I wanted (instead of being tied up with England for a bit) and Turkey to grow faster than he should have (due to Russia's incompetence). Otherwise, if England and Russia had been played halfway well, I think I had a pretty good shot.