It requires you to have your A game as a negotiator. I think that's the key to playing either country - talk, talk, talk.

Italy is fun. I've done well with Italy, as you can play off of France and Austria. I do think the Lepanto opening is tired and overrated and like it when Italian players think beyond that move. If you are a good negotiator you can actually do alright as Italy.

Austria is my least favorite country to play. I'd say keep Italy friendly and try to keep Russia away from all those SC's. I've seen Austria/Turkish alliances be a huge pain in the ass to dislodge from the Balkans.

I wouldn't recommend Italy or Austria attacking each other first thing as it usually just cripples both countries.

I don't see the big problem with Italy. Granted I have only ever played Italy twice I believe, and I survived with 10 SCs and won the other game, so I personally love Italy. Austria however, I have never done anything but get completely destroyed as, so I'm with the anti Austrian crowd on this one.

For playing Italy, I would say just be friendly to everyone, because Italy is such a great ally for almost any player on the board, as they can attack almost anybody right out of the gate, with the exceptions being Russia and England. Chances are, if you're friendly to everyone, you'll get at least one good ally, most likely more than one, because almost any country can make a great mutual alliance with Italy.

It is far more complicated than that. There are a number of good articles about the strategy for Italy and Austria, but here are my two pennies.

Austria will usually do fine if he just survives the first two years. Geopolitically Austria's situation is not as bad as it looks at the first glance. I like to use this unorthodox map as an eye-opener: http://www.diplom.org/~diparch/regularmaps/diplomap.gif

Both Russia and Turkey face significant bottle necks and a talented Austria can fight the two of them for nearly three years before the defence is finally broken. All this time will be available for finding a diplomatic solution. It is not difficult to find allies against a Juggernaut. Germany should know he is the next in line, England is usually interested in forming an alliance. Especially because Russia doesn't have resources to fight on two fronts. A full scale attack in south leaves Scandinavia open for England.

My favorite is of course to turn Turkey and Russia against each other. I nearly always start from Turkey. It is very difficult for Turkey to win if Russia is strong. And Potemkin's baby Sevastopol is so tempting. Oh, who could resist.

Naturally, even Austria can't take a 3-way attack. If also Italy joins the war, the Emperor is pretty much screwed. However, if this happens, Austria has usually neglected the diplomacy badly.

Italy should understand that the winner of war between Austria and Turkey usually continues to west. Both Austria and Turkey will have true difficulties to find their 18 SC's unless they count in those of Italy.

So for Italy the alternatives seem miserable. No matter whether you join up with Austria or Turkey, you will easily get eaten by your own ally after you have finished the first enemy.

I have personally found two very good alternatives for this dilemma. The first and more obvious is to head west instead. Especially in alliance with England it is quite possible to take France down. Germany is not a bad ally either, but with Germany Italy has to be careful not to get double-crossed. In both cases I usually favor a rapid attack in attempt to prevent France from getting two builds.

The second variant is to ally long-term with Russia. Italy and Russia make a really good pair due to the fact that they don't have to stab eachother at any point in order to make it up to 18 SC's. In fact, Italy and Russia are one of the most natural allies in the game. If Italy and Russia have good chemistry right from the beginning, they can pretend allying on different sides with Austria and Turkey and get these two powers against each other. At a suitable moment, Italy and Russia can simultaneously stab their allies, and voil'a, the RussoRomanos got a jump start to the game.

Please feel free to disagree. :)

Thanks for all the ideas. My favorite win was as Austria (on FB, not here) and it involved an early stab on Italy. I am playing Italy for the first time now. I am sure all of you have similiar luck of the draw stories. I get the Turks All the time, finally playing Italy for the first time. I went with the early stab, but it was especially logical this time. Austria failed to correspond with me until After the first turn went down. One of these days I really want to have a solid weak sisters alliance and see where it goes.

Austria and Italy with enought trust can pull off a lot of fancy tricks

I think for either to win they must be allied- at least til the end game....
Otherwise, R and T generally make fast work of both if they are at war from the start.
There are always exceptions tho!

How about joining the live game and seeing if we can put this to the test?

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=11865
The Apline Ambush in action an opening I created I think I did I don't see anyone else claiming it, I have to say out of the two times I have used my opening the end results aren't good. I still love it!

Italy isn;t as bad as i think is said. i'd actually say germany is harder sicne your stuck right smack in between an angry france and england and russia breathing down your neck (what me i'm not bitter..)

as for italy i enjoy going for the attack on france because that is what has worked for me in the past. but also a good convoy to syria into turkey is a good choice as well. austria is a friend don't go attackin unless they leave it clearly open.

What's wrong with getting Italy? To me, it's my favorite country to play because of all the options it has. Italy can help any power on the borad and attack almost any power.

Nope, Germany is one of the best countries ever. Try again.

Hmm, I've only played as Germany twice on this site and it's not bad.

anyone who reads Richard Sharp knows it's pretty darn easy to win with Germany. Is France easier? Maybe.

Alpine Ambush? Hah.

@ Airborne- can i ask WHY no one moved from about 1909-1910 to 1913????

I would say that's Extremely odd.

I like an itlay Russia alliance
leponto
or even Italy Germany

Austria works well with Russia or turkey
and leponto is always good

France and Italy is a good alliance- tho more a non aggression initially...

Actually, I think there is only one viable opening wtih Austria (unless Itlay is openly hostile).
Many people are paranoid of the Italian early intentions, and therrefore open in suboptimal ways with Austria. I think Italy should only be handled diplomatically in 1901


SPRING01
TRI-ALB
VIE-GAL
BUD-SER

FALL01:
ALB-GRE
SER S ALB-GRE
VIE-GAL or VIE-TRI

Now, diplomatically you say this to Italy:
"Move on me in 1901, and I will defend VS you and noone else. I will leave my back open to RUS/TUR. You will at max get TRI, and then sit and support yourself in that center, until Turkey and/or France eats you"

End of story.
Any other opening as Austria is suboptimal. This opening leaves TRI undefended - but you should scare off Italy from attacking it. Also, I consider early Italian attacks on Austria a rather inoptimal play by Italy..

My two cents!

I agree with that- and most inexperienced Italian players tend to stab Austria and dont believe what you tell them- until it happens that is

i just over all enjoy italy. my favorite s to plays as are france italy and turkey. i don't enjoy england because you have to convoy in order to succeed, i don;t like russia because its so large and awkward to me, germany i've just always failed at and austria of course no one really likes

To be honest, in these basic level games you get pretty far simply by avoiding CD and being active in diplomacy... Talkative Italy is mightier than silent Russia.

Austria can win the game if she survives the first two years. Once you have expanded a little as Austria, your position at the centre of the board means you can get new units into action fast. Therefore once Austria builds some momentum, she can win quickly in the hands of the right player.

I have 7 wins of which 3 were as Austria.

Italy rock! It is the best nation on the map. You can take it slowly and not attack anyone till 1903. Actually, you can take it so slowly till both sides would think you are with them. If you are a good diplomat, you can win with Italy, but you mast be damn petiont.

Austria is a bit more tricky. I suggest a lot of diplomatic work (I love being the talkative player, it makes everyone else fill like I like them, but actualy I am Austria, I hate all of them.). If you will be lucky, none would attack you till 1902, and than you can kill Germany, or Turcky if they are doing badly. Never attack Italy, they allways work with one of your naibers and than you are realy dead, and from there, the way to CD is quick.

"you can kill Germany"

Yes, kill your Anschluss partner! Best way to win as Austria! If "win" means "burn in a holocaust of pain."

Austria is one of the stronger nations in the game, the only weakness is the absolute need in getting Italy to work with you. By getting Italy to work with Austria it allows the Austrian player to open Vie-Gal, Tri-Alb, Bud-Ser, and if Austria is able to deceive Russia and/or Turkey into thinking in 1901 that you're working with them you can really crush them both. Take this as an example, if Russia for example is dissuaded in going to Ga and goes to Ukr instead in the spring of 01 and Austria has Italy friendly, and you move Vie-Gal, instead of Austria being on the defensive, you are threatening Russia at War, and you can either take War or if Russia has realized his error in trusting you, take Rumania with Ser supporting Gal. The main thing to take away from this is that 1901 and 1902 are by far and away the most crucial turns for Austria in the game, and its all about getting Italy and either Turkey or Russia to be friendly or think you're friendly and then take the initiative from them.

As Italy you should always tell Austria that you're going to alliance yourself with him. He will ALWAYS take the bait.

As Italy I'm recently finding that an early French attack is working well for me. I think this is because Italy is more oriented to the east: Italy can act in the east while defeating France, but if Italy gets tangled in an Austro-Turkish war then France (or England) can roll you over.

Austria's one of my favourite countries, just behind germany. Austria can get the best of an alliance with Russia, and there is always the possibility of using the Italian to twist the diplomatic situation the right way: after all, Italy usually likes you more than Turkey.