Well, no, that's not how it works. You would have to get the others to agree that you were the winner, using your powers of negotiation.

It will never work... United Nations...

@Ivo: I wasn't actually suggesting this as a valid variant. I'm just taking the piss out of gunboat.

if all players drew then you would get your original bet back and i would never vote for someone else to win. even still, for the game to finish, the "winner" would have to collect the necessary centers meaning going against the hold order. if it was a game played ONLY in the forum it might have a chance.

Gunboat is not that bad. I'm playing my first now. And or actually is quite interesting.
There is less variability yes. But smart thinkers still dominate over the clueless. The only negative is the first move has way too much weight in your game. Move wrong and you are screwed. Also players like Austria are more likely to be screwed as they rely more on diplomacy to survive the first year. Countries like turkey Italy have it much easier.

@digitsu: So basically you're saying "it's not that bad", but even then you acknowledge that it is nonetheless seriously flawed compared to the normal game.

I'm in a Gunboat now as Germany (surrounded by all the nations at the start) and only I, France, and Turkey remain. The key in the early game is to spread out in all directions and support the apparent stronger nations at first so they have a better target than you and know you will help them, all the while grabbing what you can and growing yourself.

I love Gunboat. There are times when life intervenes and I know I will not have enough time to devote to negotiations. But when you get GOOD gunboat players, who recognize the swaying balance of power, Gunboat is a lot of fun.

yes, gunboats sharpens the tactical mind. so even if you are not that good of a diplomat then you can increase your tactics with the gunboat, and then try to increase your diplomatic skill in other games

I do agree with that. I have learned a lot on the tactical side of the game with gunboad. And even some diplomacy you can do, the moves you make, the support you give or receive, give a lot of clues about what do you need to gains someone confidence (or to open way to a stab) other than sweet talking.
Another good point, is that gunboat games are less likely to end in a boring n-way draw.
When some of my games ends I will play another gunboat for sure.

Surely there are no stabs in gunboat, because you don't _actually_ make any promises?

There are stabs in gunboat. There are understood deals, when France and Germany or Austria and Italy leave there borders undefended, then suddenly one of them violates that. Even though there was no diplomacy, its still a stab of an understood agreement.

I respectfully disagree J99uk. The (supposed) alliances are not as straightforward as w/ a normal game, but they are none the less implied. If you look at everyone's orders, you have an idea about who is looking to work with whom; and thus you can make plans accordingly. A stab can still occur, just not with other countries direct help/involvement unless that other country is an excellent guessor.

I think it's a valid variant, and agree with dbj as well, it's great if you don't have as much time to diplome. I think it also lends itself toward some very interesting moves/seasons.

@DBJ: "Even though there was no diplomacy, its still a stab of an understood agreement."

But what if you believe someone meant to help you, but your belief is mistaken - they had no intention of helping you, it just turns out that their moves happened to help you by accident or luck - for example they attack someone, thus breaking a support and letting you take an SC, but their intention was not to help you - it just turned out that way.

If they then attacked you, do you still feel stabbed?

Jamie, I can't tell you how YOU would feel. My interpretation of my 'ally's' moves may not be what he intended. I may feel stabbed, although my 'ally' may not have had any intention to ally in the first place. That's part of the fun. Or loaning support to someone, hoping he will THINK you are allied, not defend against you, and leave himself open for attack....

Why does it have to be that a stab is a betrayal? A backstab, maybe, but a stab is any attack in my view. and they are all godd, whether giving or receiving.

oops, 'all good'.

Jamie, when I get back from vacation, play a gunboat game with me. I promise not to stab you. (And since you don't believe stabbing is possible, I can't lie about that.)

@Dingle - we should play a gunboat. At least then you couldn't call me a pathological liar. :-)

@ Draug: "Why does it have to be that a stab is a betrayal? A backstab, maybe, but a stab is any attack in my view."

It was my understanding that "stab" was just a shortened way of saying "backstab".

Can anyone else back me or Draug up on this question?

But thats metagaming Dingle, I'll tell Ghostie on you:p