Did you discuss the situation before the moves were entered?

I dont think its right that he did this, if infact that is how the turn actually turned out before the rollback. However, it can only be expected that some people will take advantage of the situation.

Well, at the end of the day, while it is unfair it is not disallowed. It remains a personal choice whether or not to carry out the same orders or not, and this "rollback cheating" is an unfortunate side effect of the hack. The fault lies with the hacker, not Nilocy, though his decision is dishonourable.

"Did you discuss the situation before the moves were entered?"
We didn't have a chance to.

Glorious: His decision makes no sense unless he already knew and deprives my alliance of the payoffs of my successful move.

Er, to add the actual point: How does the fault NOT lie with him?

The disruption is caused by the hacker. True that he is exploiting it, but if no agreement has been made to stick to the original moves (whether there was time or not) then he's not breaking any promises, is he?

not disallowed ?

Dude, why would the rules of diplomacy even disallow something that is not expected to happen anyway ?

Imagine the situation:

Someone accidently hits the gameboard with his legs, and it falls over. Instead of putting the places where they were before, someone thinks it is okay to put the piece elsewhere.

He consequently gets horribly beaten and is forced to eat the fucking piece he moved.
The rules of diplomacy only state how you play, not how you do not play, because that is common sense.

Nilocy took unfair advantage of a situation that everyone else in the game went through with fair, keeping moves unchanged.

Well, a sort of Global agreement that people should not alter moves except for NMRs and legit misorders has appeared, I'm sure you've noticed.

"He consequently gets horribly beaten and is forced to eat the fucking piece he moved."

Er, that seems a bit excessive to me, but I'm sure the idea came across well enough....

the keyword is unfair

diplomacy is a game of lies and backstabs and lots of mean stuff going on, but it still remains fair, everyone is dealt the same hand, and most importantly, all moves are played simultanously.
You do NOT know them before they happen.

I'm not defending what he did. I'm just saying that this is an unavoidable side effect of a bizarre situation. This "honour system," admirable though it is, is impossible to enforce and remains something that should be decided within the game.

we could enforce it. Kestas simply has to reset the game one more time.

That way the game remains fair.

I am not saying Nilocy has to be banned or punished or anything. Just that fairness has to remain.

I agree that this is an unfair event in a fair game, and that it should be frowned upon. And also I don't want to be forced into a position where I am defending a decision I don't agree with, but seeing as I seem to be being pushed that way I'm going to stop. My point was simply that there will be a large proportion of individuals who take advantage of this situation, and we can't expect Kestas to roll back every single game where it occurs. We just have to sort the problems out ourselves.

It's a shame that it has got to this.

You have three options:
1. Have a gentleman's agreement to move all the pieces back to where they were, a year down the line (i.e. take a year or two to shuffle pieces around). You can then either:
2. Play out the moves as they were originally entered or
3. Agree to play the turn with new orders being entered.

In my humble opinion, you shouldn't be able to profit from time travel. So far, in the half dozen games that I am in all players have agreed to roll the moves forward as they played out before.

That shows the general opinion of a large number of players. I suggest that others do the same. It is the only fair way forward.

its possible that 3 phases went by and were rolled back. expecting anyone to remember where all 34 armies went for 1, let alone 2 or 3, phases is dubious. while i expect some will disagree, i think anything goes. we publicly discussed in one of my games and agreed to a clean slate. but any agreement is not enforceable, nor is anything provable. so quit your bellyaching, man up, and play.

"Someone accidently hits the gameboard with his legs, and it falls over. Instead of putting the places where they were before, someone thinks it is okay to put the piece elsewhere."

Not to condone his actions, but many people play with F2F rules where if you can sneak in illegal unit placements or orders and nobody catches you then it's legal. Flying Dutchman away!

There is a substantial difference between sneaky low down techniques of questionable cultural acceptance in a current game turn, and the situation described here where a turn was adjudicated and then because of a limitation in the code the game could not be reset to the actual prior problem position.

Clearly this fellow needs an Elder Talking To ((as the first juvenile delinquent in the hobby I got many of these and now 43 years later I get to give them out)).
Additionally this points out the need for a new code aspect: that of setting up a specific game board situation. That is being able to go into a game by the GM/Mod/Webmaster whatever and move the pieces around, change the players, and the deadlines.
Something for Kestas on his Christmas holidays.

I had a great round pre-999... But knowing, that my moves will now be known since they were reset - I have the opportunity to change them. Knowing that I have the opportunity to change them may affect my adversary's decision to change his - after all, he can't be sure that after seeing his moves and knowing that he's seen mine, that I'll repeat my moves. Maybe I'll attack with a different piece and support with another this time so support can't be broken.

Point is, everybody has all the same information, and it's as fair as it possibly can be. It's the shithead hacker's doing, and I think that Kestas and the mods have done everything reasonable to make it right.

I think the ppl it will affect most are those that stabbed that round - because now their allies know they aren't loyal. But still, they can use Diplomacy to tell their allies that they made a grave mistake and are sorry, the either make new plns, or stab again if they're convinced that their ally believed them.

It's a bad situation, and we are all in the same boat. Let's make the best of it and move on

We can't go asking Kestas to roll back every game where someone didn't put the same orders in.
There are lots of problems with asking players to put the same moves in:
1. What if players can't remember what their moves were?
2. What if player were NMR - can they play their moves now?
3. What if players NMR this time around?
4. Some players might do the "fair" thing, while others can't?
5. What if players accidently entered illegal moves last time (or moves they didn't intend to enter) - should they play the same wrong moves?

I agree in principle that it would be fair to play the exact moves, but this is unlikely to happen in all games. We can't keep asking Kestas too look into every game on a case by case basis.
A simple solution would be be for every player to accept the situation and make their best moves given the circumstances.
And lastly not whine about it. The hacker broke in. Kestas fixed it. Lets move on.

typo
4. Some players might do the fair thing, with others *won't.

The worst part is their is no way of knowing either for sure what other players will do.

I agree with Philcore. Everyone has the same information. So if someone found him/herself surprised by an unconventional move and now has the opportunity to redo his/her moves to prevent the same move from being successful, it only follows that the other player will have the exact same opportunity - to try a different move - maybe even the originally expected move - and try to surprise his/her adversary once again.

If everyone has the same information, and nobody assumes that he/she has to enter the same moves again, both players are free to try different moves, not knowing whether or not the new moves will be successful.

It's unfortunate to have something awesome work out and then have to try and guess as to whether it will work again, or whether to try a different set of moves, but there's nothing anyone can do about it.

The problem with this idea is that all players do not have the same information. For most games only a few hours or even a few minutes passed between adjudication and rollback.

Quite a few of us are in long deadline games and did not check the results so that some players got a peek at the moves while others did not. To make it worse, since the wipe cleared log entries and posts there is no good way to know who has info and who has not. Players who knew the moves in advance can lie about it with a fairly good chance not to be caught.

The basis of the game is that we all operate off the same facts (posts are not facts, they are at best rumors - moves and positions are facts). Unless you have some way of posting what everyone's moves were so everyone in the game has the same opportunity to peek, doing anything but repeating your old moves is cheating and any talk otherwise is rationalization.

The best solution is to agree that if anyone does not repeat their move, the game is corrupted, the offending party will be eliminated, and the game drawn.

This is a good point.

Well, we have good news. Nilocy expected everyone else to do that, but seeing that everything else remained static, is taking actions to right the problem.

I'm with those that say "accept the situation and make the best moves given the situation"(spyman)... and "quite your bellyaching, man up and play"(Dingleberry Jones).

Consider a parallel: Is there any sport where when time is called by an official after a play has started (say from a fan running on to the field) that the teams are, upon restart, required to perform the same play again? No, not bloody likely. The cat is out of the bag and the players adjust. Man up.

we had an option not to repeat the moves. i used it in one of my games, and in others other players used it. so what? you can't argue that something is (un)fair in a game of diplomacy

Only one of my games was affected. I posted a message in global chat saying that we might all need to agree to a course of action. I just logged in then, and everyone is saying "what are you talking about" our game is right where we left it. So it was. I think Kestas must have rolled the games back a few times, Anyway no moral dilemma for me now.

So, why would you try to do the same moves- knowing that your opponent knew them?

I believe there are 2 camps here.

One camp looks at the rollback akin to having knocked over the table and thus requires resetting the board to the position before it was knocked over.

The other camp looks at the rollback as an unfortunate accident of fate but that's life. The game continues from the point it is set at, there is no need to reset things.

It seems quite apparent the 2 schools of thought will not meet. This does leave the first group at a disadvantage, especially if they were expecting the reset.

For those that say, what does it matter, everyone can see the moves. That is precisely the point, you may have legitimately made a very "lucky" move that can now be easily blocked and thus not repeatable.

It is irrelevant about what is fair at this point. You need to move on. There is no way to force people to reenter the same moves; nor should you expect complete strangers to abide by what you think is the moral thing to do. Especially in absence of discussion. if you can come to agreement, great. If not, you can hope they do (what you call) the 'right' thing, or you can just assume its a do over. You should even announce that you are assuming a clean slate, so everyone is on the same page.

@DingleberryJones - Seriously. If you don't even try to discuss it with the other players, then I can't see how you can expect any particular result.

If a board was knocked over in a face to face game everyone would be working together to put it back and discussing the situation as you did it. Do that. Talk to the other players, try to come to an agreement.

I have no idea why you wouldn't be doing that anyway. Something crazy and unprecedented just happened to your game. Why would you just sit there silently?

If I had been in a game that was effected (I'm currently not in any games, though will probably be starting a new private game with some friends soon) you can sure as hell bet I'd immediately have been on the Global Chat commenting on it and asking what everyone wanted to do about the situation.