I don't like Happy Holidays because it doesn't mean anything. Presidents Day is a holiday, but you're obviously not including it when you say Happy Holidays. It's just a vapid way to avoid even saying Christmas and, more importantly, a way to stretch out the gift-buying season to even before Thanksgiving.

I worship the surprise gopher.

Invictus - actually, "Happy Holidays" does have meaning: it usually means something like this: "In an attempt to please everyone, I'm going to belittle you as a person, because even though I know you celebrate Christmas, because I have at least some peripheral knowledge of who you are and the overwhelming majority of people *do*, in fact, celebrate Christmas (either in a religious way or simply in a consumerist way)...I'm going to ignore what I know or suspect about you and give you some water-down 'greeting' in order to please some atheist or angry Islamicist that might be listening..."

And yet there will be no complaints when the news broadcasts remind us that it is Rhamadan or hari-Krishna day or whatever.

Frankly, you can tell me "Happy Chanukah" or "Have a rousing Ramadan" or whatever if that is your belief....I'd rather a person have enough intergrity to express themselves, instead of giving me some vapid, PC greeting in order to please whoever might be listening. If I say "Merry Christmas" to you and you don't celebrate Christmas, I, in fact, *still* wish you happiness...particularly on Christmas day, which you no doubt will enjoy taking off with all the Christians. If you wish to reply with your own faith's greetings, then that's wonderful....maybe it will spark a conversation and we might learn something about each other.

But...in the rare case that you are some raging asshole atheist who is seeking to be offended...and then does get offended....I pity you, but honestly I don't care about you and your narrow point of view that refuses to acknowledge that others have a different belief system they want to express.

Say whatever you wish given you belief....but don't be a vapid fool and put aside yoru own beliefs so as to not offend others. I frnankly don't give a damn about hockey, but (if there were a hockey season) I would have to put up with the constant "Hockey Town" nonsense and "Go Wings!" crap being talked about all the time in Detroit. Same as religion? Sure...if you are an atheist and don't believe in religion. I don't believ in the enjoybility of secular hockey, which is equivalent to religion if there is no god....so I shouldn't have to put up with it, or any other sports hoo-ha, for that matter.

But, instead, I smile and nod and wish their team well, as normal human beings do to one another...just like when I'm having a shitty morning and someone says, "Good morning!". I don't dispute their greeting...I grunt and nod and move on about my day without getting offended that the greeter was oblivious to my scowl.

So...fuck off, all you "Happy Holidays" assholes. And stop telling me about your good god-damned mornings or your stupid sports teams, or your daughter's dance recital. If you can't care enough about *me* to respect the things important to me...then fuck off!

Heh, fun. Nice try obi. You should have made this thread when krellin was still hiding in shame.

LOL...I can see it now...the holidays in Krellinville...

"Excuse me sir?"
"Yes?"
"We're collecting for the poor this season--"
"Oh, sure, there's 10 dollars."
"Oh, that's very nice of you! Happy Holi--"
"FUCK OFF YOU ANTI-CHRISTMAS CUNT!"

Hiding in shame? tsk tsk, foolish troll. I've been ignoring desperate, banal fools crying out for attention. Now, perhaps you should man up and discuss the topic in the thread...or does your brain not have the capacity to add something meaningful to the topic?

Yeah, whatever you say, krellin.

(Really, even if it's a silly expression--I don't think it's that silly an expression, to be honest, you can argue it's a bit on the PC side of things and that's lame, but hey, you don't have to use it, so why get tweaked if others choose to use it, it's not like it's a slur...)

Krellin is the pasta sauce to your salad.

???

Coolecting for the poor "this season"? What season would that be, Obi-tard? Presiden'ts Day season? Is that what brings out the red kettles? Oh....wait...it must be the 4th of July collections you speak about, right? Poor Mr. PC....he likes to *play* Christmas, but he just can't admit it. That being said, I provide my charitable donations *directly* to the causes that concern me...I don't give money to morons showing up at my door with a hand-out, or randomly collecting about the streets of the city.

You, on the other hand...what? If the collector said "Merry Christmas" to you you would get offended? Of course, you will say you would not...because the specifics of the greeting have lost any meaning to you. You couldn't care less what it was, right?

I live in a world where words and implications of those words are important...and the watered down greeting of the scared massses of PC fools too afraid to state their own beliefs publicly is a damned shame. Another chink in the armor of freedom, as we are molded into a faithless, group mold of forced equality....

bo_sox...another brainiac with no meaningful thoughts of his own...pathetic.

Obi -- if you have an inkling that I celebrate Christmas, and you purposely do *not* acknowledge that...it is a slur. It is a deliberate attempt to *not* talk to me about what you know about me in order to please someone else other than me! How is that not insulting? When a coworker who knows I celebrate Christmas tells me "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas", they are telling me that I am not important enough to speak to as an individual...that I must be lumped in to the bullshit PC mass of humanity, instead of treating me as an individual for whom you have specifc knowledge.

I could care less if my coworkers daughter does good at her recital, for example...but if I know about it, I will be a good social being and say, "Good luck with the recital" even though the person i am speaking to is not performing, and the performer will not hear the greeting. it is about individuals interacting. When we remove the individual knowledge of one another from our conversations....i.e. ignore their belief and replace with generic PC bullshit...it degrades our society, not improve it.

And....all tose people flocking to the sales in stores....the overwhelming majority of them are celebrating Christmas this year...We may not be a "Chirstain" nation, but we sure as hell are a "Chirstmas" nation, which has *nothing* to do with God or religion. so all the "Happy Holidays" people need to stuff it. What gives *them* the sole right to be offended by "Merry Christmas", but I am somehow bad for being offended at their disdain for my belief? Sheer hypocrisy.

If you are so afraid of Christmas and don't celebrate it...might I suggest that you get your ass out of bed on Chritmas morning and go do some volunteer work in a shelter....but your ass where you mouth is. If you are unwilling to work on the meaningless day...then you are just another loud-mouthed hypocrite.

Aye, tis nae brown dar noggin!

Those are my thoughts.

"Coolecting for the poor "this season"? What season would that be, Obi-tard? Presiden'ts Day season?"

Yawn...stupid response...everyone KNOWS it's the Gift Giving Season.

If someone needs that spelled out, they're...well, I won't use your slur, but they're rather stupid, aren't they?

"You, on the other hand...what? If the collector said "Merry Christmas" to you you would get offended? Of course, you will say you would not...because the specifics of the greeting have lost any meaning to you. You couldn't care less what it was, right?"

Yes.
Yes, I would be fine with that.
Yes, I could care less.
Because somehow, someone saying Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Holidays...

SOMEHOW variations on the essential sentiments--I Wish You Joy...Now BUY BUY BUY BUY!--don't bother me.

And one sure to be lost on you, I'm sure, but still--

If YOU had hearing people say "Happy Holidays"...and you feel that's being shoved down your throat...

Imagine how tired folks like ME are of having people approach us, oh, at our homes...on the bus...at school...everywhere...

And say those magically-irritating words--

"Say, have you heard the good news about the Lord Jesus Christ?"
OR
"Jesus LOVES YOU...don't you want to love him BACK?"
OR
Any such variation on that Christianity-shoved-down-my-throat theme?

No one ever says Happy Yule to me, but I do get happy holidays and Merry Christmas. Why not take it in the vein of someone wishing you well over the season rather then an attack on your beliefs? Not everyone believes what you do so live and let live.

As an atheist, I love Christmas. Western culture (mainly the American influence) has bastardized it beyond all religious meaning and has turned it into a secular mix of pseudo-pagan traditions that glorify consumerism, with the side effect of giving our economy a much needed annual boost.

Furthermore, Santa Claus is the perfect false idol and conveys the ideal moral story of the holiday, by instilling in the minds of young children that Santa Claus is a just a lie that is told to children to get them to behave, naturally leading them to question whether Jesus is just a lie that is told to adults to get them to behave.

Given the above, I find it quite funny when some conservative pundit takes it as a threat to his religion that people might celebrate this godforsaken holiday any less.

Oh and I loved Christmas as a child.. only kid in my class to celebrate both Christmas (due to my father) and Chanukah (my mother is jewish).

"No one ever says Happy Yule to me, but I do get happy holidays and Merry Christmas. Why not take it in the vein of someone wishing you well over the season rather then an attack on your beliefs? Not everyone believes what you do so live and let live."

Thank you, Celticfox, +1

I don't have a problem if someone wants to say Merry Christmas...
Or Happy Chanukkah...
Or Happy Holidays...
Or Happy Whatever...

I DO have a problem with "YOU MUST SAY MERRY CHRISTMAS OR FUCK YOU!!!"

^Where's the Holiday Cheer in THAT, I ask?

And I celebrated both as a kid as well, my parents were both Jewish (my dad since has become Christian) but figured Christmas was a fun enough holiday...so why pass up the chance for a day of secular fun...

And my sister and I usually got some candy and a few stocking stuffers, and got our main gifts for Chanukkah...

And then *I* got even more presents and free fireworks for New Years' Eve--my birthday! :D

Only krellin thinks "YOU MUST SAY MERRY CHRISTMAS OR FUCK YOU!!!"

He's not the only one, Invictus...CLEARLY you've never heard the opening theme song to Bill O'Reilly's Christmas Special:

"Merry Christmas, you whiny ass liberal,
Merry Christmas and welcome to america--and that's what we say here,
We say merry christmas...because it's Christmas...
THAT'S why...you liberals scum!"

Hm...you might want to learn this carol, krellin, seems right up your alley! xD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNRLLxAOGx4

It's even more ridiculous when Christian groups threaten to boycott big box retailers that say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas"

@Invictus, exactly. This isn't an issue of liberal vs. conservative or atheist vs. christian or PC vs. non-PC. This is an issue of everybody vs. krellin.

I'm an atheist and I wish everyone Merry Christmas. I don't see what the problem is. There were a pair of Orthodox Jews on campus that would wish me a happy Rosh Hashanah every year. I wasn't insulted because I'm not Jewish. I was happy that they were including me in their traditions. People who have a problem with "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Hanukkah" can, quite frankly, fuck off.

er, to be clear, I also don't have a problem with "Happy Holidays". My point was that people who criticize others for how they greet people are stupid.

Hey Krellin, tell us how you feel about black people some more.

Hey I bet he'd be mad that my Starbucks is open on Christmas. I love it when people come in and complain that we're open and then buy enough drinks and treats for 4-5 people. Oh the irony.

@krellin,

You probably don't give a shit what I think but here we go. I am an atheist and I am not offended by Merry Christmas, anyone who is offended by Merry Christmas is a twat. That goes for Jews and Muslims as well. As Krellin pointed out Christmas is, for better or worse, a secular holiday as much as a Christian holiday. At least that is the case in the U.S. However, I might just as easily say happy holidays. This isn't due to some slight to my friends that celebrate Christmas. It is just laziness in speech. I hear both Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays so often they mean the same thing. Hell, I think of Happy holidays like seasons greetings. Both statements are equally innocuous and accomplish the goal of interacting with my coworkers etc.

TL;DR Atheist doesn't care about holiday greeting and thinks people who do are overly sensitive.

@abgemacht, You seem to be one of the most reasonable people around

My serious 2 cents here mirror smc's.

The only thing more idiotic than somebody who gets offended at "merry christmas" is somebody who gets offended at "happy holidays."

Only right wing hypocrites would first say Free Enterprise is essential in our country, then damn a company that tries to expand its reach to all types of customers.

Bah, humbug!

"Happy holidays" would include more than just Thanksgiving - there's also Hanukkah, Chanukah, Boxing Day, Festivus, New Year's Day, Roots Day, and Kwanzaa, to name a few. But, since most of those holidays are made up anyway, I think you should direct your greeting towards the recipient's nationality (either actual nationality or assumed nationality, for example, my roommate looks Jewish) rather than using a catch-all.

"Happy holidays" does nothing but insult those REAL Americans who guzzle Bud Light and watch football, the most real of all sports, all while hating family on Thanksgiving, put off Christmas shopping until two days before but end up regifting the same shit from the office Christmas party last year, put in their obligatory Christmas and Easter church duty, disappoint their kids each Christmas morning, make fun of dumb Canadians and their made up post-Christmas holiday, and pass out drunk on the one bottle of good liquor they get each year for New Year's. Happy fucking holidays indeed.

Naw, then you might guess wrong and say happy "Jewish day" to an African or Asian. Everyone should say their own, Merry Christmas, and then other people should respond back with whatever they celebrate. If you are an atheist then it might be "Happy Holidays", but don't tell me what I can or can not say. This is America, I moved here so that I could say whatever the Fuck I wanted. People that try and limit what I can say on Christmas, are pathetic assholes.

Laughing at the illiterates that have attacked me:
1. I never said "Merry Christmas" is the only acceptable greeting - but I suggest is you know I celebrate Christmas, greet me as such, or greet me with your own personal belief
2. I never said I would be offended if you work on Christmas. In face, CelticFox, I said if you don't think it is a special day, I recommend you go do volunteer work on your free day and make it useful instead of enjoying the benefits of a free day that has no meaning for you
3. I suggested that people of differing faiths and beliefs should say what they believe and<gasp!> maybe start a *true* dialogue with someone, instead of cowering behind socially acceptable vapid PC speech.
4. I suggested that if I can't state my beliefs openly in regards to my religious holidays (or secular-consumerist "holiday"), then I *also* should not have to put up with your nonsense about your sports teams, your daughter's dance recital, etc. ..if you are going to make me hide who I am behind generic words, then keep the *rest* of your life private as well. And yeah....that goes for who you are kissing and f*ing, too...If you are going to play the "let's not offend with words" game, then apply it to *everything*.

Now, kiddies, please review your work and correct your ignorance-based attacks on me to reflect what I actually said.

And greet people how YOU want to...not what some dumb-ass PC police told you to say.

I am either not an illiterate, or I am so illiterate that i don't know when I am being called out. Ignorance is bliss!

Hey smc I bet you're so illiterate you can't even hear me

As our police are mostly all PCs (as in Police Constable Plod) it took a while for the term PC police to register its intended meaning. So glad I live in a country that at least Claims to be Christian so we don't have to suffer this sillyness. You will get a good slapping if you say 'Happy Holidays', but that's more for sounding too American than any pro or anti Christmas feeling...

Now if you want to celebrate Christmas at its tacky best, go to Hong Kong. They do it properly there and don't give a damn about PC.

What was that 2ndWL?

THEY HAVE xMAS HERE TOO: http://somafm.com/

Nope Krellin I work Christmas Day and reap the benefits of time and a half and super awesome tips. And really unless someone actually knows you how are you suppose to know if they celebrate Christmas or not? I sure as hell don't know if all my customers celebrate Christmas.But really who doesn't say Merry Christmas to someone if they know that a person celebrates Christmas or Happy Chanukah for someone who celebrates that.. etc etc.

So glad you posted this fun thread, Obi.