Yeah, don't try and think of things because the Mods have some incredible techniques they obviously can't reveal that monitor thought crimes........ don't attempt to figure things out because they will know......... and then you will be punished :-)

And your punishment will be docked points and you'll get really mad one Saturday night and tell everyone you are leaving and then you'll leave for a month but won't be able to resist and will come back and tell other people they will get punished for doing naughty things. So don't do it because we'd never actually want to see that happen to anyone.

Nigee - I wish they would just ban you arleady for bad mouthing them so bad... The mods do have some sophistcated tools, but they don't punish without a thorough investigation. Just because you had some friends who admitted they meta'd repeatedly and they got punished for it is no reason to be this way. If you don't like it here, go the fuck away.

If you are considering joining a game but suspect you know someone in it you should ask before you join. If it is someone you know then refrain from joining or ask the mods for permission. As long as it's on record with us it isn't a problem unless people complain. In which case you will be asked not to play in games with that friend.

If you are already in the game, then like abge said, do not ask them outside of the game. Discussing anonymous games outside of the game is not allowed to make sure the game stays fair to everyone involved.

And if you're not sure on what to do send an email to [email protected]

-WebDiplomacy Moderator

Alliances are supposed to be made in-game, not by asking each player in an anon game if they are your friend Kevin who lives down the street.

What does "friend" mean? Do they have to be from IRL? I have a lot of efriends. What if I knew someone online and then they became an IRL friend? Am I more likely to cheat with an IRL friend than an efriend?

The only issue I see with IRL friends is if they could share info by directly working together (i.e. each sees the other's computer) or, and especially in live), were playing in the same room and communicating in a gunboat. But that is clear metagaming.

I think that was pretty straightforward, but I'll clarify a bit more.

If you have a friend on the site, be it real life or an efriend, do not play with them if you cannot play fairly against them. If you think you will be tempted to discuss the game with them outside the site or tell them who you are in an anonymous game then don't join a game with them. If you think that you will feel guilty or uncomfortable with stabbing them as you would any other player then do not join a game with them. If you think other people in the game would have a problem with your relationship with another player then don't join a game with them.

The main point being, if you're not sure what to do send an email to [email protected] and ask.

But if you do decide to cheat but the Mods like you there is evidence to suggest you could get away with it for months or even years.....

@Nigee - Stop already. Just stop. Seriosuly, shut the fuck up about it already.

Nobody got away with shit. As soon as they had conclusive evidence of a long time member cheating, said member got banned. He was good at it. Very good. Had he not been so good, they would have gotten everything they needed sooner and done it sooner.

Better that one cheat stay around a little extra long, then the mods go banhammer crazy and start fucking up games left and right by banning first and then discovering they were wrong. That is a sure fire way to kill the site. "Let's ban all the members then apologize when we find we were wrong. They'll come back." Like hell they would. They'd say the site wasn't worth their time and tell the mods to fuck off and find another site to play at. Do you really want to kill the site that way?

Phew .... you do go on !!

@jmo

Yes, avoiding players you can't play fairly against is pretty clear. My question was about notifying mods about playing with friends in anon games. For instance, should I be contacting you if I play an anon game with Draug?

OR me with abge, Fortress, hellalt, krellin, Celtic, fortknox, etc...? These are all people I consider online friends and one of these days FK and I *will* get together for a drink and become RL friends.

Not trying to give you a hard time, btw. This is something that has always concerned me and I never had a good answer for, which is why I kept pushing it off until I retired. : )

yeah fuck kevin i hate that guy @genlee

@NigeeBaby, I'm glad to see you decided to come back, feel free to join some games.

@abge, No, that would not be necessary unless you have previously been warned against metagaming, mainly just email if you think there is a chance another player or moderator might see what you are doing as metagaming and/or unfair.

OK, so the current policy is if you're playing with anyone that may seem suspicious, to give the mods prior warning, but otherwise not to worry about it?

It's a good guideline to follow, the main policy being, it's going to be easier for everyone if you ask about situations you are not sure of.

Even that seems iffy. What if I don't think there is anything questionable, but someone complains to the mods. Then the mods look over the history and decide metagaming is occuring? I mean, I play with hellalt alot (or have in the past) and almost always ally with him only to stab him later. The alliance is strictly cause the conditions are right in game. I just seem to get him as a neighbor an extraordinary number of times. And I know from experience he is a gullible stab after a few years of game play so I know going along with his ideas and slowly getting into position to kill him will work. Is that metagaming? If so, then my keeping a close eye on abge or Crazyter and never letting them get the opportunity to stab because they have done it so many times in the past is also metagaming.

We learn from experience and we play accoridngly. This is not metagaming, but playing our best game. Yet someone could look at my history with our Greek lawyer friend and call it metagaming...

Well, it is, by definition, metagaming. However, the mods have always seemed reasonable in their discretion between acceptable and not acceptable metagaming.

My point is, it can't be argued to be unacceptable metagaming because we all do it *subconciously*. I don't even think about it in game with hellalt. It just sort of comes about.

Agreed, my point is that the mods are also good Diplomacy players. I think they can tell the difference between what you're describing and more malicious metagaming.

I just love how abge saves up these difficult/gray questions and throw them to the current mods. It's like "fuck it; let the next guy deal with it." "Hey next guy, here's an issue. Deal with it. And oh by the way, I'll just mention it in the forum so that people can see." :)
Generally, we take a lot of time to decide what kind of metagaming it is and whether it's one where we should intervene or have the right to intervene. Some metagaming, as Draugnar and abge, have pointed out are more gray than black and white, and those take us a while to decide. And I hope that we don't have a knee jerk reaction to metagaming or when we are asked to intervene for whatever reason.

It is just such a finbe line between what is OK meta and what is not...

Yes, which is why I waited until I was happy with the mod team before I left.

@Draug, I'm not so concerned with longstanding members or efriends as abge put it. Recently there have been a number of friends who have tangible connections/obvious signs of metagaming. So if you normally play password protected games with 6 other people and call each other by name, and then 3 of you join a public game you will probably get an email from us. If you let the 5 people you introduced to the game play from your computer, but you all really are not talking about the game it's better to let us know before we ask you about it. If you realize that you are in an anon game with your brother. Etc. As I'm sure you've noticed we tend to give plenty of chances and are as fair in our judgement and punishments as possible.

but on the other hand, if you are worried that some lesser/borderline/questionable form of metagaming isn't okay email us and ask. We're not going to dock anyone points for checking something they aren't sure on if they ask before they go ahead and do it.

Oh yeah, jmo. I wasn't questioning the mods judgment. I think you guys have done a great job (see my standing up for you against that little Nigge twerp). I was just trying to promote and encourage the discussion.