Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't FB currency very different, in that the only way you can get it is with real money?

"isn't FB currency very different, in that the only way you can get it is with real money?"

Errr...therefore BitCoins are "very difficult"? Because you must have real money (or something of real value to sell) to acquire them?

i.e. Abge -- isn't the definition of "currency" -- something that stands in place of something else of value -- i.e. something of physical value - gold, etc, or work in trade for "value-bearing script"

Going from USD to FB dollars is just a transfer of currency, like going from USD to Pounds. It's true that you can go from USD to BTC, but you can also get Bitcoins from mining, which makes it very different in my opinion. You can buy gold, but you can also go out and find it. It's a currency and a resource. A dollar bill is only a currency.

Hmmm...I think I shall set up a miner tonight on all my computers and see what this is about...

Honestly, if you have a spare computer, I don't see how it could hurt. Just wait for a good market fluctuation and you'll probably walk away with an easy $1,000. You probably won't get more than that without making a dedicated rig, at which point, I don't see how it's worth it. Don't hold onto them too long, though. They could lose all their value at any moment : )

@krellin, I think that the processing power devoted to the miner is what determines the speed of the "coins" mined and by networking with other people you can mine faster. networking is the wrong term but I can't think of the appropriate one right now.

@ulytau and orathaic, Facebook currency is the last thing I would ever consider using. Facebooks security is beyond terrible, it's one of the most hacked and targeted systems around. People log into their facebook all over, in public cafe's, open wifi access spots, etc. Putting any real money onto that site is begging to get ripped off.

@abge, those are the main reasons I don't use paypal.

@jmo

I haven't looked into it much, but I think there are 2 considerations. 1) Assembling the number, which takes processing time and 2)Assembling the correct number. Since they model it as a Poisson Process, I suspect you're pretty much assembling some random number with certain requirements. You can either have many machines doing this in parallel, or have dedicated hardware (which is currently being sold) to create numbers as quickly as possible.

I looked at a miner...it would generate about .0000146 coins per hit...errrrr....it ws a web-based thing, so probably sucks...but I hardly think you will get rich by mining. 1 Bitcoin is currently around $11 I think.

It didn't went so well the last time you had no doubt about a question of great importance #heykrellinmanup http://webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?viewthread=944147#944147

There are no grounds on which the US can devise a law to ban facebook credits. Facebook pays its taxes in the US dollars and in the end, credits are nothing more than an intermediate step in a purchasing process that in no way delegitimize the position of US dollar as a legal tender. If you could ban credits, you could ban gift cards, token coins or food stamps as well. You cannot construct a case against it unless you use some national welfare/security/w/e argument to circumvent common law practices that apply in similar cases. In fact, if the US companies gain dominance in the area, their profits will grow and the amount of taxes they pay will as well. Uniting the e-currencies under you has all the benefits of controlling the money supply without the need to bear responsibility that comes with it. It's a fucking gold mine.

abge, I can also "mine" USD by putting them in a bank and rake the interest. The fact you can mine bitcoins is a pointless technicality. You can also use the processing power you spent that way to "mine" USD by lending that processing power for a fee. You could probably "mine" more USD by hiring a guy to grind in WoW on your rig than you would get in bitcoin equivalent for the same time. You mine real-world currency by spending factors of production, be it labour or capital. You mine bitcoins by spending processing power, which is derivated from capital. The apparent difference between mining bitcoins and mining USD is that mining bitcoins increases the money supply whereas mining USD means an existing USD changes hands. But since the supply of bitcoins is predetermined, and from what I gathered, the daily overall mining quota is predetermined as well, and mining bitcoins is a competitive industry, the miner's influence on the price of bitcoin is negligible - which is marketed as bitcoins feature after all. In the end, bitcoin is just a currency for those who hate central banks. That's the only distinctive feature. Everyone is free to spend their time on them but environmetalists should stay clear of this shtick that is based on wasting electricity in unproductive use of processing power - if at least you could mine by playing gunboats ;)

jmo, there are also people who would never buy a product from Apple. I don't think Apple really minds. Some would never create an account on facebook. Some would never replace books with e-books. Yet, the trend is clear and credits are happily being used.

Bank interest is a losing proposition - I suggest you check interest rates versus inflation.

@uly

Why do you think transferring ownership and creation are the same thing?

I disagree, the bitcoin offers an semi-anonymous way to trade online - where cash does the same in the real world, your credit card transactions can be tracked back to you. Your bitcoins or cash can not.

@ ulytau, a comparison to apple isn't apt at all. Using an apple doesn't provide more security risks. And I do use facebook, I just refuse to use a money system based a poorly secured system. Many people refuse to use the credit system on facebook, and without looking at any numbers I would guess that a fair majority of facebook users rarely, if ever use the system.

"semi-anonymous way to trade online ..."

WHY? What are you doing that needs to be hidden?

Every Bitcoin transaction is publicly recorded. Every "wallet" has a unique ID. If you can figure out a person's wallet ID, you can see every transaction they've ever made.

"semi-anonymous way to trade online ..."

Also completely self-deluding...

@Krellin
I think you're a nice enough guy but it's become clear that you don't have the background on electronic currency needed to become conversant on the subject. For starters, I can think of at least six important reasons to have a bitcoin position that have nothing to do with disreputable behavior.
Additionally, your grasp of online anonymity seems to be inconsistent with what the experts have to say on the subject. Minimally, I would hope you would be less critical of an idea that you probably don't have that much insight to.

@Al Swearengen, this is a discussion for discussions sake. There really isn't a need to discourage anyone who's actually addressing the topic at hand.

"For starters, I can think of at least six important reasons to have a bitcoin position that have nothing to do with disreputable behavior."

If you'd actually like to participate in this discussion I would aim for listing those reasons instead of coming into the thread critiquing someone contributing. Just a thought...

@JMO
True, and I apologize for sounding preachy.

Reasons to use Bit coins:

People who don't qualify for a CC

Websites that don't want to pay CC fees or deal with PP bS.

Sites that make many small transactions and have an international user base and don't want to deal with currency conversion.

That's about all I got.

Silk Road, also, this point has been ignored.

@Lando

I know of it through the grapevine, but as I don't use BTC or illegal drugs, I don't have real experience.

As I've mentioned, BTC transactions *can* lead back to you, so if you are not confident in your computer skills, I would stick to traditional methods of getting drugs.

I'm not familiar with that Lando do you have a good link?

@jmo

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2012/08/06/black-market-drug-site-silk-road-booming-22-million-in-annual-mostly-illegal-sales/