For example, one of my personal, seldom-used favorites is the Med trio, in which Turkey stabs Russia early (smart move no matter what allies you choose, all you Turkey lovers), Italy and Austria each get their guaranteed builds. In 1902, Austria takes Rumania, gives Turkey Greece to prevent the typical fleet tension later, and moves forward from there. It can't be beaten, even by a typical western triple unless Russia beats someone or someone stabs.

If that doesn't work, though - say a gunboat - I also believe Italy should essentially ignore France and lepanto immediately. Austria is forced to fight Russia early; what is he supposed to do against Turkey if Italy won't help? It's just as tempting to attack Italy and get a few extra centers than see them sitting uselessly against France, of which they'll never beat anyway.

Bosox... I attack Austria when I must. I am all for going for te lepanto... But if Austria is open, stab him.

I can normally get Greece with my own support and Trieste unsupported.

And then I lose to Turkey and France if I do that.

I think it usually works out best if AI stick together, but that's true of a lot of pairings (RT, EF, FI, RA to name a few). I also think it can get boring, especially the way you go on runs with country assignment. I feel like I just played a zillion games where I was either Austria or Italy and ended up in a strong AI from the get go. So to mix it up, I just played a gunboat where I was Italy and went after Austria from the get-go. He died first, and I died shortly after. Humm... his bad luck to catch me at the end of the run instead of at the beginning.

If you stick to a true, good AI alliance, you likely will thrive but probably neither of you will solo. And what fun is that?

I much prefer the Lepanto opening to any other if I'm Italy. Doesn't necessarily mean I'm gong to see it through to its finish; A Tunis can convoy to Albania with devastating effect. But opening Lepanto means that you don't have to deal with Austria's psychotically anti-Italy death march the same way you'd have to if you just screw him right off the bat.

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH BOB!

If I'm Italy, I like to lepanto, but if I can get Turkey to stab Russia, I'll try the triple. My favorite Med tri example of mine: gameID=94218

Obviously there was a competent Austria and Turkey involved, which is certainly necessary to pull it off. Austria can always push through Italy at any time but to do that would leave the rest of the map a simple stalemate in Germany/Munich area and Turkey in the MAO.

The basic thing is Turkey runs through Russia (not hard if he starts early) and pulls up at St. Pete. Austria takes the midland and Italy gets through France over time. It is certainly slow, but if Austria and Turkey are patient, Italy will beat France, get into the MAO, and essentially skip France to get to Scandinavia and support Turkey through. Turkey's spare fleets assist Italy to make up for the one or two he has snuck through the NAO and Norwegian. Once Turkey has Norway, Italy can take the British Isle, gain enough power to finish France, and then all three are even at 10-13 centers. Never fails without a stab or a really tricky Russia.

Blue water lepanto is always fun too. I seem to be the only one that actually knows what that is though.

@bo_sox- There is no question in my mind that you should have turned that game into a solo for you.

No, you're not. The nice thing about the BWL from the Austrian perspective is you don't need Italy's active connivance until Autumn 02. The bad thing is that not everyone has the mental flexibility to recategorize you from blood enemy to boon companion in a heartneat.

Yeah Bob, before I try the BWL (which I actually haven't on this site; tried in a school game once after looking it up on wiki), I like to know who I'm playing with for that reason.

Uclabb, I'm a little different than everyone else here in that I'm happy to draw if someone else is the reason I've gotten there anyway. Yeah, I was the one "coordinating" everything in that game, but Austria could have killed me off without any real negative on his end at any time.

I think that I/A is awesome for Austria, but it really isn't all that great for Italy. In fact, one could say the game of diplomacy has "evolved" in order to make a A/I a more feasible alliance, as now anyone who plays Austria knows that you have to make perfectly clear to any Italy that if he attacks you, you are taking him down with you. If Austria's didn't play that way, attacking Austria would pretty much be the way to go, and it still can be if you play it right. I also don't understand why almost no one ever moves on France at the beginning as Italy. It is one of the main reasons France is overpowered, and Italy almost always does well if he does the appropriate diplomatic leg work.

If Italy goes Tyrrhenian/Rome/Piedmont to open, he'll beat France without a doubt. That much is definitely true.

Actually i tried that just now gameID=100132

No, he won't.

the only problem i really had in the game was that Germany was a multi account of France and that England missed the first year

Thank you for your incredibly persuasive argument, PE.

Ober, that game's not done yet. Wait until it's over to post about it here. I'm referring to a full day phase game I'm in right now.

And no, you didn't try it, you debated whether or not I'd attack you and then did it in the fall. It's doubly effective if it is done right away in the spring.

If Italy has England and Germany as allies, he will not only beat France, but get all of Iberia. I think this is true. I have also found in my experience that England and Germany are often willing to go along with such a fun new idea. You should try it out PE.

has anyone seen a game that starts with the serbian gambit?

As England, I'm perfectly happy letting Italy take Iberia. As long as I'm allies with Turkey, that is.

What is this Serbian gambit? Are you talking a Key Lepanto?

http://www.diplom.org/~diparch/resources/strategy/articles/playing_the_key_lepanto.htm

uclabb, I just won such a game as Italy....G and E helped me attack F, then E turned on G, and I mopped up Austria. G was angry at E for stabbing and helped me go for the solo in exchange for survival. Always nice to nab the solo with Italy!

I've never solo'd as Italy and probably never will. Can never seem to manage. The game I listed earlier was my best opportunity.

i probably have the term/moves wrong ive only seen it on youtube, as austria you allow italy into trieste and then to serbia, at the same time italy does a lepanto set up. you either support yourself to galicia/romania or greece and attack turkey and russia together i believe.

That's key ^

"You should try it out PE."

You really think in >300 games that I haven't? Shit doesn't work. Opening on the first move all-out against France just means that, even if E & G do eventually jump on board, they're going to dither and make sure that France deploys everything against Italy first. They can easily spare it; they'll both get 2 builds and set up to dominate Scandinavia. You're relying on suboptimal play from E&G for that to work.

You can KO France early as Italy, but the trick is definitely *not* to do it in S01. Maybe an S02 strike or waiting until 1903 when everyone has committed without you.

Just before my Italy solo someone posted in an EOG that Italy has to be very patient, and that little piece of advice made a huge difference for me. I waited a bit for E and G to show that they were serious about hitting France before I moved in. Thanks to whoever gave me that advice.

One thing I always try and do as Italy is FINALIZE MOVES, rather than sitting around as the only unfinalized individual in the game.

Anything that makes people hate you as Italy is bad. ;)

I only play Gunboat, but when I am Italy I find that I am most successful when I attack Austria . I was sceptical of the idea that Austria needs to die fast (I forgot who proposed it) but it turns out, that's the only way you can dominate.
1. A common fear is that if I attacks A, then RT will ally and steamroll them both. That is true to an extent, but it's not clear whether the IA causes the Juggernaut to stop the Lepanto, or the Juggernaut causes the IA to form. I think it goes either way, and if RT don't immediately coordinate when I attacks A, A will fall and an Italy that controls 8 or 9 centres in the centre is amazingly potent. If RT ally then it is possible to pull back and try to make up with Austria.
2. If Austria defends your attack (whether the Ven-Tyr, Rom-Ven or a sneakier one) you should stop attacking. The I attack relies on surprise and catching A out of position so if A isn't surprised then the attack fails. Period. If R or T joins in then A will fall, but I won't get much out of it.
3. I haven't found a good way to convert the early attack into a solo yet. Marseilles, Munich, Spain or StP are needed at least to win as Italy, and too often G/F holds the line in the south and in Munich, and StP is too far to get to.

The thing is that you need to get England and Germany on board on turn 1 as well.

I'd like to try the crusher that Zmaj uses. Seems to work well. Hopefully he'll comment more about it.

Well, if your goal is to get Turkish fleets in the Tyrrhenian Sea, the crusher works magnificently. Otherwise, not so much, because Austria will always give Turkey the Balkans to punish Italy.

It's worked for others. I'd just like to take a shot at it sometime.

certain alliances and tactics go in and out of fashion. Lately, I've noticed that I/A's are, as of now, out of style.

Obviously one game isn't a trend, but I just finished up a live game where I was A and had an A/I alliance from the beginning that ended in a 3 way draw with Germany gameID=100153