As a TA, I will say that I am extremely disappointed in this game. My student (England) would not listen to me as I tried to coach him to the solo and in the end just stopped talking to me. Games like this disappoint me to the core, for drawing like this is not the spirit of the game, imo

As a professor I am also disappointed, especially in Turkey, who had nothing to lose by trying for a solo. The point of the game should always be to win first, draw second. I was baffled when nobody made a move for the solo the entire game despite multiple opportunities. I will post a longer message after the EOG's go out with what I thought could have happened better and who could have won that game. I do apologize for dropping the ball there near the end, sadly some real life issues took up all of my time. Still, I hope that the students learned from this game. Feel free to ask any questions now on my commentary, why goldfinger and I are disappointed, etc.

I agree. This game is not over at all. Turkey (or England) had nothing to lose pushing for the solo here, or even going for the two way. Make Italy sweat a little bit.

Hey now, there's no way I would let them have a two-way. That said, I was a bit surprised that they actually both went through with the draw when they said they did.

said they would*

I should not write anything past a certain hour.

ghug, as Italy, this was the best case scenario for you. Myself, jmo, and uclabb are upset at Turkey and England, not you. Get to work on your EoG please :)

I'll post an EoG once I have time.

Alright, here's my EOG:

S01:
Talked to everyone. I liked Turkey right off the bat, Russia too, but not as much. Austria was a bit annoying in his press, France was quiet, England and Germany were both friendly. There was discussion of a CPA; I think I told Austria that I was on board and gave Germany a maybe, but that was never really my goal. I also agreed to a Wintergreen and an I/T, which was something I was really itching to try having had poor luck with Italy in the past. I played a neutral opening to see how things would play out.

A01:
Turkey and Russia both tried to convince me to move on Austria. I was wary of a Juggernaut at first, especially with Turkey's refusal to commit to an attack on Russia, but Lando (my TA) told me it was fine as long as I could create a bit of tension between Russia and Turkey. I convinced Russia to move to Rumania with the fleet, and warned Turkey of this very late in the phase. It worked perfectly, Turkey was angry and Russia accidentally built F-Sev instead of A-Sev and there didn't really seem to be any chance of R/T cooperation at that point. I had my pick of allies.

S02:
I was a bit worried about France's build in Marseilles, but everyone in the East (even Austria) was practically begging to be my ally (OK, that might be a slight exaggeration, but I had control there). I made the conscious choice in my mind to ally with Turkey barring major changes, and moved to the Tyrrhenian with France's permission in order to cover myself in case of French issues.

A02:
Turkey had voiced suspicions of a Western Triple in the Spring, these proved accurate once moves went through. I was a bit worried that Turkey was going to grow too strong behind me, but I thought I had a decent chance at two builds and that the triple would crumble quickly with France unable to make progress against a wall of fleets. Turkey made amends with Russia for the time being in order to face the bigger threat, and we decided to get rid of Austria to feed our campaign against the West. Lando and I discussed the movement of the fleet in the Tyrrhenian, and he suggested that I move to Gulf of Lyons to try to bounce the fleet coming from Spain or at the very least put myself in the position to take Marseilles next year. I liked the idea and went with it, but my guess ended up being wrong and he managed to put me in a much worse position.

S03:
Russia seemed to be giving up on the game, so Turkey and I decided to give up on him and hope that Turkey could get to his centers before England and Germany. I knew I was going to lose Tunis, but Turkey agreed to give me Serbia in addition to Vienna, so I wasn't too worried. We continue to push the triple towards stabbing, but to no perceived avail.

A03:
England sent Turkey and me very cryptic messages about "doing something different" with his fleets. We were hoping he would stab somebody, but had no idea who, so we went about our business as usual. I think this was also the point where one of the professors started yelling at France and me about not moving to Piedmont. I think we were each assuming that the other would move there and that we would gain no tactical advantage from the bounce (we could each defend against Piedmont with some effectiveness anyway, given that he could only move a fleet in), so we just left the space empty. Moves went through, and we were very happy to see England go after France.

S04:
I didn't think this bit over as much as I should have, and my actions here probably led to Turkey stabbing me in the Fall. I convinced Germany to go after England, thinking that he would work with France and I could stab them both while their backs were turned and take a shot at the solo. I agreed to convoy Tunis back to the mainland in exchange for the center, but France misordered and I was stuck in a worse position than I had hoped.

A04:
I lost faith in France to get anything done, and chose to try to take Marseilles and Tunis. Turkey agreed to tap Silesia while I grabbed Munich, and I went ahead with that, hoping that I could take three centers and stab a buildless Turkey in the Spring. Unfortunately, I had made the mistake of giving Turkey some extra breathing room by making England occupied with German issues, so he was free to stab me, and he did. I managed to take both French centers though, so my position wasn't too terrible following the stab, but I had to give up my hopes of a solo attempt.

S05:
Things looked bad. I supported England into Spain in the hopes of making an ally, and tried to repair things with Germany. I attempted to convince them that Turkey was becoming a solo threat and they seemed to hear me, but moves went through and they were faking conflict (they told me as much) and making no moves on Turkey. I talked to Turkey during retreats, and he told me that he would rather have me in the draw. He tried to convince England to get rid of me, or at least told me he did, but England held fast and he chose to keep coming at met. I commend him for his honesty here, a less honest player would have tried to find a way to push through me faster by convincing me that he was on my side again, but he just very bluntly told me I was fucked.

A05:
Nobody seemed to be budging. I managed to hold off Turkey for another turn and made plans for a mad dash at Iberia, but my hopes were not high.

S06:
I began my mad dash for Iberia, ordering Marseilles to Spain and sending my fleets East, knowing that I couldn't hold the Ionian and thus my home centers anymore anyway. I posted something on global about Germany not deserving a draw due to his lack of action, hoping that it would at least stir the pot a little and make someone do something a bit different. Moves went through seconds later and I saw to my great surprise and pleasure that E and G were moving on T.

A06:
Turkey was pissed, and England was amiable again. England told me I could keep Spain, saying that he was fine with me being in a draw at this point. Turkey wanted to set up a 17 center stalemate and force England to stab, because it seemed to be something he was completely incapable of doing. Germany decided to return to the safety of his home centers after we pointed out that he and England combined had 18, and that meant that a stab was likely. Turkey then proposed a 4-way and Germany and I agreed (both of us just happy to get into a draw at that point), but England surprised us by telling both that he wanted to eliminate Germany first. I agreed under the condition that I take most of Germany's centers so as to prevent either of them from becoming a solo threat and to have centers on either side of the major stalemate line in the case that a solo attempt were to be made.

S07-S08:
Everything went smoothly as we made good progress into Germany.

A08:
It seemed that Germany was going to be left only with Denmark once the turn went through, and we finalized plans to finish it and draw. Turkey asked me to withhold builds since it seemed to be coming to an end shortly anyway. I declined, worried that he would take a shot at the solo. Germany NMR'd and England was able to adjust his moves before the phase went through. I came on after builds to find two draw votes waiting for me, and I ended the game.

bump

Come on guys, I'm lonely.

This is my first ever EoG so excuse me if I'm all over the place, or overly lengthy.

S01:

I messaged everybody in the game that my preference as Turkey would be to ally with Austria rather than Russia. Except Russia obviously. Austria of course told me what I wanted to hear in regards to an alliance against Russia. But he told me he wanted to move to Rumania, Albania, and Galicia. I was all set up to open to Armenia and I communicated this to my TA. He warned me that moving to Armenia left my intentions unambiguous and a lack of options. Also citing that Italy and Austria could very well be lying to me. I messaged Austria and mentioned the idea of me opening to Bul and Con as a "neutral" opening. Austria was completely against this and became very forceful about me moving to Armenia. Added to the fact that Russia sent me my own press that I sent to Austria, I decided I was going to take advantage of Austria. I communicated his moves to Russia and told him I'd take Serbia in the fall.

A01: I see Austria was truthful with his moves and was in just a terrible spot. I told him I would give support in Rumania, but intended to go to Serbia from the get go. I messaged Italy hoping for him to take Trieste. I wanted to see a conflict there and had intentions of going juggernaut. England sent me a message that said, "Italy will have no choice but to face France." I messaged Italy saying I think it is hinting at a Western Triple and that the bounce in Burgundy was a planned bounce. Russia and I had actually agreed to DMZ the Black Sea while he acquired Rumania. However, he made the mistake of telling me that he would be sending in the fleet. Which, I think this goes without saying from my perspective screamed an OMG WTF BBQ. I told him I could no longer DMZ the Black Sea with that comment for my own protection.

S02: Russia built a fleet in Sev and I messaged everybody that diplomatic ties with Russia had completely gone to hell. I figured this would solidify my alliance with Italy moving forward. Both Italy and Austria came to me and mentioned they had agreed to a Trieste/Greece swap. Italy requested my support into Greece and I told him I didnt like the idea given the retreat possibilities and the problems it presented in the fall. I told him he'd be better off convoying to Albania, and taking it himself in the fall. While at the same time I would make sure he kept Trieste. I also in turn made a deal with Austria that if he supported me to Rumania that I would get him back into Trieste and do my best to keep him alive. I tried to steer Austria into moving to Albania to be a speed bump for Italy but Austria didnt go for it.

At the same time, Russia came to me saying he misordered his build and wanted to know if there was any way the alliance could be saved. I told him if we were to have any positive relations moving forward we would have to get rid of a fleet. We agreed to dislodge Rumania and make it disband. At the same time, we agreed to bounce in Armenia to ease tensions.

A02: The Western Triple showed its head and Austria just happened to be the odd country out in that I didnt really feel like he would be a benefit to us in stopping it. I convinced Russia to bounce again in Armenia and considered using this for my own personal gain. I considered staying in Rumania and supporting myself to Budapest. However, I felt like I needed Russia to maintain himself to hold off E/G. I also felt like Italy would need to maintain himself to withstand the French onslaught. Russia, Italy, and myself agreed to make a 3-way alliance to hold our own. I believe at this point I messaged France and told him I would do as much as possible to make sure Italy held his ground and that he would make no further advance past Tunis. And tried to encourage him to go against England.

S03: Russia disbanded F Sev with the understanding that I would DMZ the Black Sea as a result. However, my TA pointed out that I would have an incredibly hard time getting past Sevastopol. Evaluating the situation, Italy was in deep trouble. I offered him Serbia and Vienna and told him I would take Rumania and Sevastopol. I felt it was very important for him to get a build so we could set up a stalemate line and force the Western Triple to dissolve.

A03: Everything went to plan and Italy and I seemed to have our stalemate line nearly set up.

S04: England had made his moves that seemed to indicate his attack on France but I was warned by my TA and Italy that it very well could be a bluff. I believed England that he was going to attack France, and I told Italy I would send Smyrna to Ankara with the intention of heading north. At the same time, we had gotten Germany to go against England. I remember at the time Uclabb disagreed with my move to Armenia as opposed to convoying to Bulgaria citing that it didnt leave me an opportunity to pull off a stab. I strongly disagreed with this logic as I felt convoying to Bulgaria would just send off alarm bells for Italy. I felt me moving to Armenia would lull Italy into a false sense of security. I also needed to see if England followed through with his comments to determine if I could go for it.

A04: I sold it to Italy that I would cut support in Silesia so he could get Munich. Although, seeing his expected gains and him going +3 meant I couldn't let that come to fruition. I had all the pieces I needed. I went for the stab. I had gotten Italy to move to Bohemia, the Western Triple had dissolved. I didnt think England would move to Sevastopol when Germany had just attacked him and both of them were offering supports into each other's centers(Warsaw and Moscow). Italy couldnt defend Austria from me, and this seemed to be my opportunity at the solo if there was one.

S05: Italy messaged me asking what was happening in the world of Turkey. I told him my plan was to occupy Serbia, hope E/G dont fuck with me, and find a third power for a 3-way draw. The diplomacy with England and Germany was to 3-way draw. And Germany was a pivotal country in preventing and English or Turkish solo. The understanding was held between the three of us that if England or myself attacked any of the three that the other two would band together.

Italy responded back to me more than willing to be the third member of the 3-way draw. I told him I would take all of Austria and Greece, and if we were going to strike some sort of deal, we'd need to hit the negotiating table. He asked my requests and I wanted Serbia to disband opposed to retreating to Greece. I told him I would lobby England for him to be in the draw.

A05: Italy I believe misordered badly and didnt follow through with the disband. I was disappointed. I also told him that England didnt want any part of Italy in the draw. Furthermore, that I felt I had no choice but to continue attacking him with the aid of Germany. I dont really see the point of lying to somebody I can defeat without lying. It would only be insulting his intelligence and he certainly didnt deserve it. Added to the fact that I still wanted to see him in the draw opposed to Germany.

S06: There was actually no diplomacy with England for this entire turn. I remember conversations going into quite a lull. Italy and I exchanged quite a bit of messages towards the end agreeing that he deserved to be in the draw over Germany based on our opinions of their performance. Germany and I discussed how to best advance on Italy and end the game faster.

A06: England went to Ukraine and that was the golden ticket for Italy. I was incredibly pissed. For one, the move to Ukraine was obviously not communicated to me. I could only perceive the move as either an act of war against Germany in an effort to solo, or an advance on me in some way. I told Italy I would cease and desist all movement against him in light of the development. Also, Germany told me that he offered Paris and Brest to England AND knew about the move to Ukraine and didnt tell me. I told England Italy would be assured a place in the draw, and he realized Germany would have to go.

07-09: As Italy said, the game went smoothly, and Germany was eliminated.

In closing, I want to thank everybody involved that got this game going for us. For one, Stratagos for organizing this. I want to thank Pete for being a great TA and giving me incredible guidance. I definitely learned a lot from him and appreciated the manner in which he helped. Pete never in any way tried to play the game for me. He just advised me on potential mistakes and what I needed to be aware of. I'd also like to thank the other TA's that put in the time and effort to help us. And last but not least, the commentators who took the time to offer their insight on what was happening. It was very much appreciated for the criticism.

I'll have some more to add later in regards to specific countries. Something I'd be interested in seeing is EoG's from the TA's also and maybe what they had tried to communicate to their students. Again, thanks everybody for putting this together.

Bump. Italy and I are getting lonely over here.

I reminded my student to give an EoG, though he hasn't been listening to me much. If you wish, I can write one from my point of view

Yeah, I actually want to see EoG's from all of the TA's as well.

Bump.

I think I'm meant to be mentoring someone in the second game of this series. I won't be able to do so as I'm leaving the site. Sorry

I will do a TA EoG, but it'll take a while (mostly because I'll have to reread the conversations we had and link them to the phases)

Bump.

Bump.

Alright, my PM's with England are long gone, so I'll just do this from memory here.

S01 - I had England talk with as much of the board as possible, feeling out where everyone is. I periodically throughout the whole game had him tell me what he was saying that season with every player on the board. Above all, I stressed communication with him. The more you talk, the more likely you are to stay alive. So in spring 1901 I hear him say G and F are interested in a WT. I tell him to go for it, since that is one of the best case scenarios in a game for England. England almost never gets stabbed in a WT.

A01 - I also told England that do whatever you can to keep every power in the east alive for as long as you can. It works to your advantage in the late game. That whole strategy isn't working too well right now with Austria getting ripped apart. The good news, though, is that there isn't a Jugg, and he can use it to his advantage diplomatically.

S02 -Normal stuff with the triple. I wasn't too keen on moving Belgium to Norway instead of Edi, but if it keeps the triple together for a while longer, then I'm okay with it. I start talking to England about setting up the first stab. It shouldn't be this year, but I set him thinking on it.

A02 - Taking St. Petes comes as a surprise to me. Belgium I knew beforehand would be lost. Again, I didn't like it, but whatever it takes to keep the WT going just long enough for the stab is fine. I think it was after this turn that I push the stab on France. He's the bigger of the two enemies, the tougher nut to crack, and has more fleets. I want England to lay off of Russia. It's as far as I want him to go. I tell him to map out his 18 centers for the solo and point out that Tunis is the best shot for 18, that he should move for that quickly.

S03 - I'm not too pleased at the move to Moscow, but it looks as if he'll keep it. It's not the 18th center I'd wish he'd have though, so I keep pushing the French stab. Still, I wish that he could have negotiated a truce with Russia and helped him out. More players alive are better than dead.

A03 - A good year overall. So long as he's going to keep Moscow, I'm having him put more armies there to defend it. When the time comes, he'll need as many there as possible. A good setup for an attack on France next year.

S04 - Here's where the bad news begins. I don't understand Germany's moves. Not at all. I/T is breathing down hi back yet he moves to attack England. I favored the move to Picardy over the convoy, so that he could gain MAO quickly. I just wasn't anticipating the German moves. I tell d31 to "let" Germany have Sweden, but move to retake it next year. He also needs to defend North Sea and I'm emphasizing to him to talk some sense into Germany.

A04 - Turkey moved on Italy. We all knew it was going to happen, but that gives France a lot of more leeway to move against us, so again I urge d31 to talk sense into Germany. It seems to work, and the German agrees to have his fleet destroyed in Sweden...a step in the right direction. I'm uncomfortable with the vulnerability of Moscow though. I tell him to get that army back east as soon as its done with Sweden. With luck, Turkey won't be there to sweep North

S05 - A poor showing by Italy. He could have kept Turkey busy quite a bit longer, which is what I would've liked. But, no matter, we have allies. I am surprised though that d31 chose to move to North Coast. Alliance offer or no, you always move to the south coast of Spain. I accept it, but don't like it. I tell him the benefits of sitting in Sweden and hopes that he will follow my advice. The east is in turmoil, France is down, and hopefully will be eliminated next turn. Time to stab Germany and start gunning for the solo...or at least thinking about it.

A05 - Again, the moves here surprised me, but there's a lot that could be done with that army in Gascony. I'm also disappointed in the Sweden decision, but Turkey is gaining too fast so we may need to keep Germany on board a bit longer. It's time to break into the Med though. I think here is when I started advocating the move to Ukraine. He'll need Ukraine if he wants to hold Warsaw when the time comes.

S06 -Several things about this. First off, its great that France is essentially dead, but there are a lot of units sitting around doing nothing. I'm happy with the move to Ukraine, but the loss of Spain is completely unexpected. What the hell is Italy doing? He should stay there, hold the line, and start trying to stay in a stalemate line. At this point I think nothing of it. Italy will lose his centers, and we'll simply take back Spain. A nuisance for the solo chance, but we still have Moscow. I'd like to have Tunis for security reasons though...

A06 - After this turn I have nothing to comment on. d31 did not listen to or respond to any of my communications or advice. I urged him to keep moving against Italy in the Med, and repeatedly I told him to go for the solo, to take advantage of Italy's weakness and Turkey's lack of action. It fell on deaf ears though. I can only do so much. So Italy, I tell you this. If my advice had been listened to, you would be dead. Tunis would either fall or be your front line. After that, the German stab would either give England victory or come close to it. England still could have come close had he stabbed you in 1908.

Disappointing end after a promising beginning

@goldfinger, your EOG calls for a few explanations, so here we go:

First, S05 was a misorder, and you're right in that I probably deserved to lose after that point. Second, S06 I was going to lose the Ionian and my home centers were going to fall shortly afterward. I was hoping that England would make a solo play at some point and Turkey would allow me to keep enough to hold the line in the West and be part of the draw. Last, I don't think he could have soloed had he gone for it in '08, but I do think he should have at least gone for it; I definitely wasn't expecting that to end so easily.

Sorry, time has run away from me this week. I will getto this, but I want to do it properly

No you're right, ghug, 1907 is really the last time he could have tried to go for it.

Anyways, usually when I'm an Italian in your position, I fight Turkey like hell until "backup" arrives, and then try to stick around long enough and put myself in the right position to be needed for the draw. But what you did, in my opinion, is very dangerous. Had Turkey simply followed up behind you and england pressed forward against you, you would have been stuck with just three centers or four centers very far apart from each other (Marseilles, Spain, Tunis, Rome) and would be taken apart piecemeal.

Generally I would agree with you. My decision there came down to Lando's advice and the fact that England and Germany seemed like they lacked the drive to try for anything that wasn't a 3-way, which meant that they would just let Turkey have his way with me.

No other EOG's? Disappoint.

It is disappointing. Maybe some more professors and TA's will join in. But thank you Jok3r and ghug for following the rules of this SoW and doing what you agreed to do in the beginning

Sorry for not getting around to this yet. I've been really busy in RL. I'll try to get to this this afternoon, but no promises.

Righto. Firsly, let me just say I have (once again) been very lucky with my student - Jok3r was great to work with, and easy to be a hands off TA with. I acted more a sounding board. Once the 3-way was agreed, things tailed off, but that was his decision, and I'm not going to call him for it. I think his EoG covered most things, but a few points to add.

The interaction with Austria shpaed the opening - I'm not sure why Aus demanded that Turkey didn't move to Con, but an agreed bounce in the Black Sea made Armenia a poor choice.

Once the WT was clear, we talked about stalemate lines. Everyone should know the 17/17 line, but there are some others - especially useful for I/T vs a Western Triple. That's what drove the I/T alliance, and in S1904, they were pretty much there.

We talked alot about counting to 18, and I'm sure that drove the stabs of Italy, as well as keeping England at bay. I think that there was an opportunity missed in 07, but I can understand that there was stilla concern that Italy would throw it to England

Sorry, I was really busy this afternoon. I should be able to do it tomorrow afternoon.