Shakespeare and sex...yep:

The Bard, at least, liked to make the Beast With Two Backs.

He ALSO praises loving folks for their mind and such, though...

Again, obviously I'm the oddball here, as if we didn't like sex as a species...well, that'd be it, wouldn't it?

But every time I think about a beautiful, vibrant, intelligent girl, and try and picture her just pleasuring some guy...

D.H. Lawrence might be ashamed of me--another author I hold as a hero who'd be looking at me funny right now--but I'm sorry...

It just seems sad every time I think of it.

I'm probably the one guy who WOULD read Playboy fr the articles...if I read Playboy. ;)

But really, I just feel like it'd be a huge insult to her pride and intellect and spirit...

And in my experience, the women I've met easily outclass the guys in average intellect and spirit, so that just seems like a cardinal sin, to strip--no pun intended--that at which she excels away from her, just to explore a frontier I don't even hold paramount anyway.

And I use "girl" as, yeah, guy/girl is the default.

I'd feel the same way for a dude...

Though I'd admit I've never met a guy I'd want to, erm, cast in the role of Desdemona. ;)

I'm pretty asexual, if I lean, I lean for girls...

But I just am not into sex, and I just can't think about it without thinking it must be degrading for her on some level...

Don't you feel like that's a contradiction to some extent? You commend women for their intellect and abilities, but yet you imagine that when women have sex it would automatically be a degrading experience for her, implying her boyfriend or husband would be calling the shots and therefore is the dominant party in the relationship.

I didn't imagine that someone being dominant would be the degrading part--though that's obviously a possibility--but rather just the idea of asking someone to make themselves that vulnerable for my or anyone else's pleasure...

She could be dominant, but "nice" and allow the male to do that because she genuinely loves him, while he just wants sex...

I don't know, maybe I have too high an opinion of women/too low an opinion of men in that regard, and call me a sexist, but I would say there is a gender difference there...I think there's some scientific grounding to that, but given my track record with science, I'll leave that be...

Sex just comes across as something that, on average, the guy would want more than the female...that for women a relationship matters more than it does for men on average...

And I'm happy to have a Platonic relationship and be the person who's there to talk or act and never ask to act *upon* her.

But maybe I have an unfair ideal, so I'll ask, sex-faring men:

ON AVERAGE...

Who wants/asks for/pushes for sex more--the guy, or the girl?

Lol obi continues to baffle the "normal" people of Webdiplomacy.net

I don't know obi. I think you may have a case of "don't know what you're missing."

I can see how not actually having had good sex or food might make you think its not that good overall. But, I believe, and believe you would believe if you thought enough, that the more different experiences you can have the better.

Thus, have sex, if not just to have something to write about. Also go to a bistro or something or try new kinds of food you've never had. My God man. I am anti-smoking but I've smoked a pack, etc.

Also, about the whole "the intelligent impressive girl is ruined by having sex" then I guess like... I guess you just have to be there to understand that this is not the case.

Also get back to favorites you ADHD children. lol. most of you provided no justifications. without that, we cant argue, thats the fun part

And to your question, obi, in a healthy relationship, it's about equal.

Yeah...I'll be honest here. It sounds more like you're stuck worrying about outdated and sexist gender roles. You seem to be assuming that being sexual and having an intellect is impossible for a woman (and there's an undercurrent in your writing that seems to imply men can't do that either). Here's the thing, women can and do enjoy sex. They're not "making themselves available" for a man's pleasure. Women who have sex with their partners do it because THEY enjoy it. Now granted there is a problem in our society with people not really knowing how to cope with female sexuality. But you can address that, by ASKING her what she wants you to do, by learning about her body and what she enjoys. Stop assuming things about what women want and actually try and listen to what they're saying, and perhaps you might have a better understanding of sexuality.

And at this point obi, you have a gay man lecturing you on how little you know about female sexuality. *sigh* Let that sink in for a second.

Agree with Thucy here, it's all about equality (though that doesn't have to mean that both parties should want exactly the same at all times). Sure there are times when a man is more into sex than the other way around, that's inherent to human nature, but in a good relationship the woman will just let the guy know to take a hike. I've had plenty of elbows in my ribs or 'go away, let me sleep' or *sigh* over the years. That's how most couples interact. On the other hand I'll also let her know that I've no interest whatsoever to enjoy a nice day of shopping, or something like that. Men and woman behave differently, that's what makes them compatible in most cases.

women*

And fine, justifications.

Favorite color: Red, but not like fire engine red, darker than that - Puts me in mind of red wine. It can look warm and welcoming, or austere and sophisticated or passionate and sensual, or maybe all at once. That's a little big overly poetic and it is just a colour but yeah.

Favorite number: 12 - Actually would make a much better base for a number system than 10. Divisible by 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, and itself.

Favorite ice cream flavor: Chocolate peanut butter - Sweet, that bitter chocolateness and salty and peanut flavour all at once. It's a good combo.

Favorite beverage: Chocolate milk - Cause sometimes I like being a little kid again. I really like milk, I really like chocolate. I don't see what's not to like here.

Favorite country: Canada - This is largely because I live in it and I know it well. Our experiences shape our tastes in things, let's not pretend otherwise.

Favorite sport: Downhill skiing - I can do this sport fairly well, which makes it remarkable just for that reason. It's also fun and exhilarating. Plus afterwards you go inside and have hot chocolate, which is a variation on chocolate milk (see item 4).

Favorite sex position: uhhh...wow I guess I'd have to describe it so you know what I mean. Point taken Thucy. That one position that nearly every UFC fight devolves into where one guy is on his back with his legs around the other guy's waist. Like that. - This way you can still kiss during it, which is nice and also, things are positioned well for stuff to occur. That is all.

Favorite eye color in sexual attraction: Blue or very dark brown-black depending on the type of guy - Blue eyes with black hair are very very attractive to me. Sorta jumps out that way rather than blends in. But not everyone would look good with blue eyes. Particularly people who aren't white, frankly. So it really does come down to specific cases in that sense. Very dark eyes are also very attractive though, in that they can be somewhat unusual.

Favorite kind of food: Italian - Very rich, savoury, garlicy, cheesy. There is nothing in italian food that lacks flavour or comes off as bland, and when cooked properly everything is perfect in texture. Meat is never tough, pasta is never soggy and limp, this is an important consideration!

Favorite dish: Falafel pitas. - When I eat a pita with vegetables and falafel I feel like I'm being healthy, even though it's usually 2 or 3 in the morning and I've been drinking for a few hours and it's a 3rd or 4th meal that is completely unnecessary. Plus there's a savoury flavour to falafel that is quite unlike anything else.

Favorite food item: Brownies - I like chocolate. This is becoming a theme here.

Favorite language: Mandarin - Don't speak a word of it. Would love to, but probably won't ever quite learn it, even if I do get around to trying. I always love things that I can't have.

Favorite English accent: New Zealand - I have considered going home with people with New Zealand accents before, even though I did not consider them attractive in any other way. That is all I have to say about this.

Favorite city: Montreal - You could blindfold me, fly me around the world and put me in any part of Montreal and I'd know at once what city I'm in. There is no other city in the world quite like it.

Favorite bodily pleasure: Drinking a glass of water after being very thirsty. - Shrug I dunno. It's a really nice feeling and I didn't want to say something crass.

Favorite star/constellation: The big dipper, because I actually know how to find it.

Favorite month: September - I like the cool breezes and briskness of fall, but October tends to be too rainy, and in Canada November is basically winter.

Favorite year (you were alive in): 2010 - Just a good year for me all round.

Favorite day of the week: Thursday - I always seem to end up doing something fun, that I wasn't expecting to do at all on Thursday. I also have fun on other days of the week, but Thursday is "Surprise, you have plans now!" day for some reason.

Favorite holiday: Thanksgiving - I like food. Thanksgiving is all about food.

Favorite word (in terms of utility): Egregious - It lends itself well to hyperbole. I like hyperbole.

Favorite mode of transport: Bicycle - Because I'm a pretentious, environmentally conscious hipster living in Montreal. Why else?

Favorite climate: Temperate - Too hot and I'm sweating everywhere, unpleasant. Too cold and ... well everyone knows the cold sucks.

Favorite type of familial relation: Impossible to say. - All I have to go on is my own family and I don't want to have to say "This family member is my favourite." I don't want to think about my family in those terms.

Favorite century: 21st. Sorry, it would have completely sucked to be me any time before the 1990's.

Favorite color: dark yellow, orange..kind of the color you see in the sky when the sun is rising. Black for cars.
Favorite number: can't say I have one. 18 perhaps ;)
Favorite ice cream flavor: anything not too sweet, preferably some type of fruit, blueberry's e.g.
Favorite beverage: ginger ale, tea. Alcohol-wise I can appreciate sambuca, or a cool beer after a long day.
Favorite country: Netherlands (although it's too small to live a whole lifetime)
Favorite sport: Football (soccer)- brings the world together.
Favorite sex position: differs from time to time
Favorite eye color: black, dark brown
Favorite kind of food: Chinese- such a diversity, you will never get tired of it.
Favorite dish: a decent steak
Favorite food item: not that much into snacking, but generally like most snacks.
Favorite language: English, allows me to communicate with people around the world. French, beautiful language, not too difficult to master.
Favorite English accent: Australian- sounds so careless. The accent most Dutch people have, especially politicians representing the country, makes me cringe.
Favorite city: Barcelona- spectacular city, beautiful architecture, lively culture.. great place to visit.
Favorite bodily pleasure: falling asleep when tired
Favorite star/constellation: not too interested in astronomy- I suppose our sun for enabling life.
Favorite month: January- new year, new goals
Favorite year (you were alive in): 1993, or any year around that time- careless years as an infant.
Favorite day of the week: Monday - new week, new chances
Favorite holiday: not that much into holidays, but Christmas for the pleasure it seems to give others I'm close to.
Favorite word (in terms of utility): progress
Favorite mode of transport: car, but walking can be nice too.
Favorite climate: Moderate, not too hot and definitely not too cold.
Favorite type of familial relation: I couldn't choose. Spouse in the future I assume.
Favorite century: 21st, although I greatly admire some of the more traditional values inherent to previous centuries you should live in the present.

"It sounds more like you're stuck worrying about outdated and sexist gender roles. You seem to be assuming that being sexual and having an intellect is impossible for a woman (and there's an undercurrent in your writing that seems to imply men can't do that either)"

In the moment...yes, it would seem that if you're focusing on one, sexual or intellectual conduct, the other would be diminished...

But I don't think that's "sexist," I'm not saying women are lesser in this degree than men...

I think I stated, if anything, women are generally more intelligent in social matters and conduct than men in my experience...

I don't think I gave an instance of women being inferior...?

"Stop assuming things about what women want and actually try and listen to what they're saying, and perhaps you might have a better understanding of sexuality."

I'm afraid I just don't understand this...there are some aspects of humanity I just can't grasp, no matter how many conversations about it I have, and it appears sexuality has to be one of them, because I just can't for the life of me imagine asking someone how they "want" me to literally screw her over, it just seems almost cruel, like asking a deer where it would prefer to be shot before the act is committed (and no, I'm not making a women=innocence bit here with the deer, that just came to mind with the "animal getting shot" analogy...seriously, I don't get that, it's like when I go to get blood drawn and someone goes out of their way to ask what ARM I'd like to offer up, or which arm to stick the IV in--what does it matter, really? Who cares where so long as it occurs? ...Granted I guess you wouldn't want to have sex with someone's eye socket, but idiocies like that aside, I just can't ever see asking someone where or how they'd like it...all the while just assuming they WILL like it--suppose they don't, THEN what?)

I've never been in a relationship--can't you tell? lol--and nor do I really want to, as you can tell, the whole idea just seems like a nightmare from my point of view...

So maybe all that makes sense in a relationship, but from my view, it just seems like a crummy thing to do--

I hate asking someone for a glass of water or a ride home, even if they offer...

Asking for THAT big a deal just doesn't compute with me, but I suppose that's my failing.

(And for the record, I said men ON AVERAGE maybe have the stronger drive towards sex...I know that's not universally the case--my best friend has a very strong passionate side and a drive towards intimacy I don't think I could match in a million years...)

Back on topic...

@Mr. rb:

Falling asleep when tired...that sounds good--gonna go try that now! :)

I think you're over-thinking the whole concept a little Obiwan. It's more instinct than a planned, orchestrated process really. It's not like you're asking over dinner "well honey, how would you like to have it tonight?". It's similar to a good conversation- you're also not going to discuss the topics you will talk about and in which order these topics are to be covered before you start talking with someone, right?

Favourite colour: ultra violet
Favourite number: pi
Favourite ice cream flavour: vanilla
Favourite beverage: coffee
Favourite country: England
Favourite sport: Formula 1
Favourite sex position: Mandarin's Butterfly - That's the only name I know it by - it's *not* the "Butterfly" one mentioned earlier, though that one's good too. Thinking about it, the same woman introduced me to both of them (and many many others). Ahhh the things a mature woman can teach a teenager! Every woman I've slept with since then owes her.
Favourite eye colour in sexual attraction: Green - I saw a woman once with "cat's eye" contact lenses - green ones - I never knew you could get such things. The effect when I looked in her eyes was simply "Wow!"
Favourite kind of food: Indian
Favourite dish: Chicken Madras
Favourite food item: Bacon
Favourite language: Plain old C.
Favourite English accent: Inverness
Favourite city: Nottingham
Favourite bodily pleasure: (excluding orgasm?)Sauna
Favourite star/constellation: Big Dipper
Favourite month: February
Favourite year: 1969 (moon landings)
Favourite day of the week: Saturday (night)
Favourite holiday: Christmas
Favourite word: Stellar-Nursery
Favourite mode of transport: Motor bike
Favourite climate: Mediterranean
Favourite type of familial relation: Husband-Wife
Favourite century: 24th and a half (Duck Dodgers in the ...)

So that Thucy is appeased:

Favorite color: White - > The color of the Yorkshire Rose. White is the color of cleanliness. There are also few things more impressive to my eye than landscapes covered in snow, or neo-classical government buildings like the Capitol.
Favorite number: 33 - There are 33 letters in the Cyrillic alphabet. My favorite number had always been 3 so I just added one.
Favorite ice cream flavor: Pear Riesling - Jeni's ice cream makes this. It is rare when I find ice cream to be refreshing.
Favorite beverage: Sljivovica - Plum Brandy, used to drink it for breakfast with some honey. It will kick your ass. I like how churches in Serbia make their own.
Favorite country: Srbija - Already explained this in another thread. Beautiful country, language, wonderful hospitality, great food, and a heroic history.
Favorite sport: Cricket - Got into this while an undergrad. I was hooked when I watched the 2003 world cup.
Favorite sex position: TMI
Favorite eye color in sexual attraction: Blue - Don't notice eye color unless it is blue.
Favorite kind of food: Japanese - Light and refreshing, not a lot of variety, but I change my mind about this favorite all the time.
Favorite dish: Sashimi (Anago, Nobu & Uni) - Probably because I recently went for sushi.
Favorite food item: Stone Fruit - Nothing better than organic peaches picked right out of the orchard.
Favorite language: Srpski (People need to read Epic Poetry. Boj Na Kosovu will bring tears to your eyes).
Favorite English accent: Russian (Something about Russian accented vowels in the English language sounds nice to my ear).
Favorite city: Belgrade (Wonderful city. I spent a summer in 2006 spending my afternoons walking along Knez Mijailova and/or sitting in a cafe in Kalemegdan Fortress reading a book while overlooking the Dunav & Sava rivers. Terrific architecture, plenty of history, truly the pearl of the Balkans.
Favorite bodily pleasure: TMI
Favorite star/constellation: Draco - cool looking dragon
Favorite month: October - best weather, leaves (usually) turning color, grocery stores awash in fresh apples, pears, and figs.
Favorite year (you were alive in): 2004 (had the time of my life in China and then DC)
Favorite day of the week: Wednesday (most of my shows are on Wednesday).
Favorite holiday: Victory Day (May 9th) self-explanatory
Favorite word (in terms of utility): Agitate - if I'm ever guilty of overusing a word, this is probably it.
Favorite mode of transport: Train - once spent 48 hours on a train, loved it.
Favorite climate: Temperate - I like seasons. Global warming is not only horrible because of its environmental effects but it also has taken away the seasons, which is depressing.
Favorite type of familial relation: ? Spouse-Spouse - this question is weird. My wife is the only person I can stand to be around for more than a couple of days.
Favorite century: 20th Century - The century of socialism and tremendous advancements in social progress and human welfare. The 21st century is the century where all of the gains of the 20th are being unraveled as neoliberalism has stipped us of basic social rights while intensifying the brutality of capitalism. Prior to the 20th century race-based slavery and beating women for sport was socially acceptable. I wouldn't want to live then.

Familial relation meant in the abstract, not one of your own.

Like, I might say brother-sister, but I don't actually have a sister, I just like the idea of a brother-sister relationship. I might have said Aunt/niece, even though I can't be either.