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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Jacob (2466 D)
25 Oct 11 UTC
On the Proper Usage of Fleets
A question came up in another thread about how fleets should best be deployed. Should they always stay in the ocean? Are they useful in coastal territories? How many fleets should one have? Etc.. Share your thoughts within.
60 replies
Open
Nell (100 D)
26 Oct 11 UTC
sitter needed
I'll be off the grid Friday - Tuesday, can anyone help me out? I'm in two games, both as Turkey. I'm not stomping in either of them but I still have a role to play in the game arc.
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=69323
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=69867
Thanks!
3 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
26 Oct 11 UTC
So now that the colonel is dead
Let's all rejoice in how NATO layed the foundations for another islamist country. Or not?
63 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (873 D)
25 Oct 11 UTC
American War of Independence: A Patriotic Myth?
See below:
Jamiet99uk (873 D)
25 Oct 11 UTC
The following appeared today on the BBC website:

======================================
Myth: The American colonists had nothing to lose but their chains

The American War of Independence began as nothing of the sort.

It was essentially an argument between loyalist and radical British subjects over trade and taxes, only gradually acquiring the rhetoric of civil rights and liberties. Even today that argument is mired in chauvinism.

London protested that a derisory £1,400-a-year in revenue was being gathered from the 13 colonies to pay for having been rescued by Britain from French autocracy in the Seven Years War.

To call this rescue "absolute despotism", as the Americans did, was absurd. The protested Stamp Acts were imposed throughout the empire, as were other trade restrictions, while the colonists enjoyed their own assemblies and were for the most part autonomous.

As a colony with self-governing rights, America was far better treated than Ireland.
=====================================

What do my US-based counterparts make of this? Has the BBC successfully debunked a major plank of your national mythology, or is the above analysis flawed?
Jamiet99uk (873 D)
25 Oct 11 UTC
For reference the link is here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15428024

The item was written by the historian Simon Jenkins.
stratagos (3269 D(S))
25 Oct 11 UTC
The BBC is substantially correct. The vast majority of the colonists were neutral, and were less than thrilled to be witnessing what was in effect a civil war between the loyalists and the patriots.

Of course, let's not pretend that people on all sides use emotive language when trying to demonize their opponents. Shall I provide some examples from the Napoleonic Wars? The UK wasn't exactly a victim during the wars of the First Coalition, were they?
Jamiet99uk (873 D)
25 Oct 11 UTC
Oh, I'm not here to fly the flag for the UK, don't worry. I was just interested in how my American chums would react to this one.
I'll post a long winded response when I get off of work, in short, this is hardly revolutionary, nor is it comprehensive. There was much more about American grievances than war taxes, and there was much more about the Seven Years war colonists found objectionable, and finally there were several other causes to the war as well.
stratagos (3269 D(S))
25 Oct 11 UTC
Well, I'm probably not representative - I have a BA in History, so my view may be a more... nuanced one than someone who had little interest in the subject.

Having said that, I knew enough to discount the simplistic explainations I got in elementary school before I graduated high school. It's hardly a *secret* that the Revolution was a bit more complex than it is usually presented....
Zarathustra (3672 D)
25 Oct 11 UTC
Huh? I thought we fought the Revolutionary War to free the slaves and stop communism!?

As has been stated, the article is correct, if a bit ignorant of nuance. The colonies had an array of different reasons for getting into it. However, it is pretty hard to inspire people to the point of rebellion from a pretty cozy life with arguments like, "Trade relations with our mother country are mostly good, but could probably be a little bit better for us if we ignored the other benefits we receive!" and "We only have a large degree of autonomy! We want more!"
semck83 (229 D(B))
25 Oct 11 UTC
I would agree that the actual taxes (etc.) in question were not too extreme, at least until the intolerable acts. But I think the colonists were pretty worked up about the principle of being taxed without the prior forms being recognized. A lot of it was based on respect for the idea that if you allow a government to vastly overstep authority (or violate its structure) for a moderate impingement, there will be nothing left to stop it if it wants to do something truly outrageous.
Onar (131 D)
25 Oct 11 UTC
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't one of the major concerns a lack of representation in parliament?
Putin33 (111 D)
25 Oct 11 UTC
Thanks for posting this Jamie. Yes there is a lot of mythology about the 'tyranny' of British rule, which is complete rubbish. There was no tyranny at all (Britain was most liberal government in the world), but people grow up believing the British were doing everything from seizing colonial lands to repressing their religious liberties and other nonsense. They ignore the fact that a large number of people remained loyal, and these loyalists were terrorized and ultimately expelled.

One of the main grievances of the colonists was the Quebec Act, which gave religious liberty to Catholics and curbed westward expansion. So in essence, the colonists were fighting for expansionism and to prevent increased Catholic influence in their largely Protestant country.

The colonists had no problem with taxation without representation, and consented to a wide variety of external taxes and duties that the British implemented (not to mention criminal and other laws). They agreed with the principle of 'virtual representation', since their own governments were such that only a select group of property owners could vote, not all voters agreed, and yet everybody had to submit to the laws. The right to 'reject' taxation necessarily implied that the Crown had no right to govern at all, since why wouldn't the logic of taxation be applied to other laws?

The colonists wanted English rights without being subject to English laws. They thought by virtue of emigration, that they could enjoy the privileges of both being in England and being a colonist. The colonists voluntarily left a country where they had little in property but perhaps a vote in the parliament, for a place where they had lots of property but little vote. Since their ancestors were subjects to English law, so were the colonists. The fact that they emigrated means that they thought the prospects of prosperity in the new country outweighed whatever privileges they might maintain by remaining in England.
I had a long thing written but then my laptop went off. so ill keep it short. The revolution was not about British tyranny it was about the subservient position of the colonies in the empire. It wasn't about taxes themselves, it was the fact that those taxes went to support british officials in the colonies when Americans felt that the colonies should be administered by the colonists (not necessarily ruled by the colonists). In short they felt they wern't be treated as British subjects, and it wasn't until very late in the game that independence was advocated. Also as been stated above there were many different acts that the colonists saw as provocations.
Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
27 Oct 11 UTC
Yeah I'm pretty sure we gave old King George multiple opportunities to back off of his bullshit before we rebelled. Most "revolutionaries" only wanted fair treatment while remaining under British rule. It's only when they felt they weren't going to get it that the revolution began.

Also, this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50_iRIcxsz0
Putin33 (111 D)
27 Oct 11 UTC
The fact that colonists sent an Olive branch petition to George demonstrates that their complaint wasn't with him to begin with, it was with parliament's right to rule. The rebellion was against democracy. George refused because letters were intercepted which documented that despite the so-called peace offensive, war preparations were well underway.
General Cool (178 D)
27 Oct 11 UTC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZfRaWAtBVg

I think this song sums it up quite nicely. (not really, but it's really cool)
The colonists didn't blame the King until extremely late in the game (until after a year at war and very soon before the declaration) The Americans saw themselves as British subjects, they blamed corrupt ministers (they were extreme conspiracy theorists) and parliament. I haven't heard that letters were intercepted but Americans certainly thought so.
aplogies misread the part about the letters intercepted.

And the colonists didn't have a problem with parliaments right to rule per se, Colonists originally took their grievances to parliament in the form of Franklin. Their major issue was the perception increasingly direct control of parliament over the colonies and the related perception of Britain itself (which was seen as the worlds bastion of liberty) sinking into tyranny.


16 replies
sirKristof (15 DX)
25 Oct 11 UTC
admin: game check please
Hi, could you please check this game for me?
http://95.211.128.12/webdiplomacy/board.php?gameID=68347&nocache=85
some of the moves of the other 3 guys look a bit suspicious considering its a gunboat!
11 replies
Open
stratagos (3269 D(S))
25 Oct 11 UTC
Mods: it is vitally important I get the answers to these questions
What server is this?
What is this site about?
How do I play?
What are those green circles next to peoples names?
16 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
25 Oct 11 UTC
lalalala
https://sites.google.com/site/webdiplomacylinks/

i hope to update this regularly, any contributions will be much appreciated - pm me if you want to contribute.
7 replies
Open
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
26 Oct 11 UTC
Russia 1902 builds
I have a scenario for everyone that I just want their opinions on. In general, I'm terrible as Russia and the 1902 builds always trick me up.
18 replies
Open
hwh2219 (0 DX)
25 Oct 11 UTC
sitter needed
See inside
2 replies
Open
Diplomat33 (243 D(B))
25 Oct 11 UTC
Perry's new voluntary tax.
Sorry, Perry fans, but a voluntary tax seems to be a bad idea. Discuss it here.
16 replies
Open
Diplomat33 (243 D(B))
26 Oct 11 UTC
The most aesthetically pleasing sight on a diplomacy board.
For me, its a 7 SC Austria controlling all the Balkans in the middle game. I don't know why, it just looks good. Share your own thoughts here.
23 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
06 Oct 11 UTC
Dear Occupy Wall Street Protestors:
Get a job or, failing that, get a LIFE.
Promotion of Power and Self-Interest are the motivating factors in human decision-making, and have been since we made the first fires and sharpened the first spears. Yo're not going to override human nature, you're just making asses of yourselves...set REALISTIC goals or set yourself to the task of misery (if its the latter, enjoy...I know I will.)
338 replies
Open
Mujus (1495 D(B))
26 Oct 11 UTC
Gunboat 1-10-11 Debriefing gameID=69019
gameID=69019
Fun game, lucky ending. Hey, guak in Austria, it's like you were reading my mind. :-)
2 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
19 Oct 11 UTC
Make Your Bid for webDip F2F 2012!
The Boston F2F was so amazing, I really want it to happen again.
I think the best way is for interested people to make bids (like the Olympics, but less corruption) for Event Coordinator (EC) and Tournament Director (TD). Please take your bids seriously. As Crazyter and I can tell you, this is an immense undertaking. See inside for more details.
51 replies
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WhiteSammy (132 D)
25 Oct 11 UTC
Darwin Award In Training
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bFBrwgB8Vw
1 reply
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ILN (100 D)
25 Oct 11 UTC
Live world diplo
If you wanna play world diplo live, leave a message below, game will probably be Friday(oct 28) or Saturday(oct 29)
0 replies
Open
KyleFC (917 D)
25 Oct 11 UTC
Interested in a game?
So I just found out an old friend also plays Diplomacy and I've introduced him to the site. We've decided a live game on Thursday probably around 11am est would work best for his first game here, so I'm trying to find quality players who won't nmr. I haven't decided on specifics so far except for day and time so input is welcomed. If interested send me a pm or post below.
1 reply
Open
Believe I found a multi. Two games of possible evidence.
Where do I report it?
7 replies
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SacredDigits (102 D)
25 Oct 11 UTC
The most important clarification I could request
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Broncos-Tim-Tebow-Rookie-Game-Worn-Used-Pants-Team-COA-/260873933810?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cbd4c53f2

When they say, "Throughout the pants there are multiple hit marks, stains, and tears," do they mean tears like parts that were ripped or tears like crying? I prefer the latter explanation.
3 replies
Open
Pete U (293 D)
13 Oct 11 UTC
Who fancies a game then?
WTA, 2 days min phase, anon - if there's enough interest I'll set it up.
30 replies
Open
vamosrammstein (757 D(B))
24 Oct 11 UTC
War on Terror
I had a professor today make the claim that the US let Osama Bin Laden and other Al Qaeda leaders flee into Pakistan from Afghanistan in order to enable the "War on Terror". Thoughts on that?
60 replies
Open
Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
24 Oct 11 UTC
hilarity of the day
My little sister, 16, who I've always found to be a sharp young woman, mentioned today that she does not really know which months go in which order, something that to me seems should be a given part of any education. When I asked her, "Well, what the heck were they teaching you in 2nd grade?" she giggled and replied, "Jesus."

Good thing those private schools have their priorities straight, eh?
56 replies
Open
WhiteSammy (132 D)
24 Oct 11 UTC
Future of Gaming?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg8Bh5iI2WY
12 replies
Open
stratagos (3269 D(S))
24 Oct 11 UTC
The Dubious Assertion thread
Bush personally ordered 9-11
The earth is 6000 years old
Poor people are lazy
Society owes me an above average lifestyle
20 replies
Open
Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
22 Oct 11 UTC
For all you religious types out there...
Question: is it more sinful to get a gay divorce than it is to get gay married? I mean, say you get gay married, BAM! You're going to hell for sure, right? But then you realize the error of your ways, and decide you want a gay divorce to get back into God's graces... but divorce is a sin too!

So is it better at that point to just stay gay married? Or is the the flames no matter what? I'm so confused...
68 replies
Open
Sargmacher (0 DX)
23 Oct 11 UTC
Russia-US Rail Link
The BBC have released this article/video ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-15387714 ) detailing outlines for a Russian plan to link Russia with the US by an underground train tunnel link across the Bering Strait. Despite the cost, it sounds amazing! What do the rest of you think?
81 replies
Open
Ges (292 D)
22 Oct 11 UTC
You're Welcome!
You need one of these in your head. More after the break.
11 replies
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ulytau (541 D)
23 Oct 11 UTC
Steven Pinker on A History Of Violence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MfYlSBbp0k4

Since this forum seems to lack in optimism, trust in institutions like government control over violence, courts and modern society in general, this rather long video by professor Pinker seems like a good thing to post here. Anarchists, watch out!
9 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
24 Oct 11 UTC
An interesting little "bug" that could affect GR...
So, this game (gameID=64994) was drawn in the last half hour (around 9:45am), yet the time stamp says it ended at 5:30pm Eastern last night.

If this had been the first, instead of the 24th, this game could have been included in the previous month's GR. Something seems amiss there.
15 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
22 Oct 11 UTC
Leaving soon
Okay guys it will be maybe one or two more times that I get on till the beginning of December. Stratagos has volunteered to sit my two games, so thank you. I will not be a mod during this time, obviously. Good luck to everyone and have fun in the interim.
75 replies
Open
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