I wonder does this mean that England and Portugal have not had a state of war between them at any time since 1386? It seems to make sense - considering that Spain was an mutual enemy for both for centuries.
With regards to England and Scotland they have had quite a few wars since then as have Francde and Spain.

lol dang chris thats admirable dedication

Yo Xapi what about in WW2 where they tried to take over like... the Pacific

The borders of England and Scotland have been largely stable since the early Middle Ages despite the wars.

I disagree where you say China isn't the oldest. Throughout all the dynastic changes, it was always China, not a different country. The conquerors took over the Chinese government, they didn't impose their own.

Really, it's no contest. China has always been China.

Hereward: Scotland isn't independent and England has all but been stable, think of how much it shrank in the last 100 years.

"Yo Xapi what about in WW2 where they tried to take over like... the Pacific"

Tried would be the key word there.

True, but we're talking countries aren't we? Scotland is a country and a nation, it just isn't the state. When did 'England' shrink? The British Empire has shrunk. The UK has shrunk. England hasn't.

Chrisp. Granted alot of the change was gradual. But plenty of it was not. See: Mongols

Hereward, when did Monmouthshire stop being English and revert to Wales?

China has not been consistently politically unified throughout history. At times its has broken up into separate Kingdoms, such as the Three Kingdoms in 220 AD.

According to Wikipedia San Marino is the oldest sovereign state (and republic) in the world, dating back to 303 AD.

wasnt the original question which two politcal entities have had a treaty the longest? not which nation may have the same border the longest.

Well they controlled quite a lot of the Pacific that wasn't homeland Japan for several years, why shouldn't that count?

@Hereward: Berwick-upon-Tweed has flipped between England and Scotland repeatedly although has been English since 15th century, but that is still much later than San Marino.

@Invictus: you can't say "China has always been China" without stating identity conditions. I think in the context of this discussion people have made valid points that you're wrong: fluid borders; simultaneously ruled by different factions; and in fact Japan extended control over much of China in the early 20th century, especially the major cities - or what we think of as "major" in the West.

I'm not saying you don't have a valid point, but just that: i) you haven't stated it unambiguously; and, ii) you're talking at cross-purposes with the rest of the people in the discussion.

The same Chinese civilization that exists now has existed since it started there thousands of years ago. France was Gaul. America was Indian tribes. Egypt went from pharaohs to Greeks to Muslims, with plenty in between. China has an unbroken history of EXISTENCE that can't be matched.

I realize that I'm at something of a cross purpose, but the rest of the discussion strikes me a rather arbitrary. They mix up Westphalian sovereign states with cases like Scotland and Wales, and seem to be nitpicking over what the oldest border is when that really doesn't seem to have been clearly asked on its own.

But what do I know?

I aggree with you Invictus about China being the longest lasting continuous civillization. Amazing how it can have survived so many invasions and conquests and yet its basic structure remained intact (including the notion of being Chinese).
We have become a little sidetracked here. I guess the Treatyof Windsor is the oldest formal alliance (with a piece of paper actually stipulating the conditions) unless anyone can cite an earlier treaty?

... oldest alliance still in force that is.

On the discussion of oldest countries started by trim101. Nations and political states are two different things. I would say that England is the oldest political state in the world.

From William the conqueror to Charles a continuous line of kings. King succeeded by heredity or acclamation of the ruling class. During the break in kings until the restoration of monarchy - England was ruled by Parliament, an institution which overlaps the monarchies of Charles and his predecessor kings and the Kings following the restoration. Parliament and the monarchy are in existence today. Parliament's and the monarchy's constitutional positions have evolved over time. Lineages have come and gone - but, these institutions have survived. 1066 to today. All you Brits can correct me if I am incorrect about details. But, I stand by the general idea.

@ po8crg - fair point, though it was my understanding the nation Monmouthshire was part of was ambiguous until recently. The point is arguable essentially.

@ RiffArt - I knew someone would mention Berwick-Upon-Tweed.

I agree England isn't the oldest country in the world, I was commenting earlier primarily because Xapi claimed no European country had had decent border stability lasting several centuries when several have.

Borders change from time to time. Some times significantly. It is most significant if the political and cultural institutions remain in tact, even if they evolve. My argument was that while evolving the ruling political and cultural institutions of England have remained in tact since 1066. No other country on Earth can make that claim. Sure, ethnic groups and nations survive put not as a state. By the way, the many dynasties of China or India are really radically differently ruling elits. Not an evolving set of institutions.

I guess it comes down to how much revolutions play in the concept of continuous nations. If you say its a reboot everytime there is a revolution then it changes everything.

Sure Anglo-Saxons ruled by French nobility... sounds like 1066 to me... not!

At least move it forward in time where the ruling class actually spoke English en masse as they would say.

How can you say the changing dynasties of China were any different from those of England? Because the elites changed? There were only two foreign dynasties in China, the Manchus and the Mongols, while Queen Elizabeth is German!

China has always been CHINA since it began, and has an uninterrupted history of its unique civilization. England was Celtic and Roman and Norman and more and had several changes in status becoming Great Britain and then the United Kingdom.

Even accepting your flawed thesis on China, the already mentioned San Marino has England beat by 600 years.

Plus, if you want to make the "state" argument as the government, then Rome as a polity lasted from the 735 BC till the fall of Constantinople in 1453. Just because England lasted a long time till the present day that makes it more important than a longer lived entity in the past?

Your argument really doesn't hold water.

Everyone keeps using this word "polity" that I've never heard of....

Polity

1. a particular form or system of government: civil polity; ecclesiastical polity.
2. the condition of being constituted as a state or other organized community or body: The polity of ancient Athens became a standard for later governments.
3. government or administrative regulation: The colonists demanded independence in matters of internal polity.
4. a state or other organized community or body.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/polity

Japan - 700BC and still going strong.

In any case, it would more than likely be an island nation that had at least some period of isolation.