Sitation one:

Lets say country A bounces Unit a with Unit b.

If country B supports one or other of the units, do they succeed inthier move instead of bouncing?

I'm inclined to say no, but I thought I'd check.



Situation 2:

Lets say that England has a fleet in Bothnia and an army Sweden. Austria has two armies- in Livonia and Moscow.

St. Petes is empty.

They've agreed that St. Petes go to England, but Austria wants to make sure Britain only takes it with the fleet. Can Austria do the following to ensure that, or does it violate some supporting against yourself rule?

Moscow->St.Petersburg
Livonia (s) Gulf of Bothnia to St. Petersburg

People need to wait. Geesh.

situation one, unit will be supported in

situation 2
whatever unit eng supports in will get in
oh wait sweden?
he'd have to convoy and if you bounced no one would get in

Both answers are Yes.

Situation 1: Yes, the move will succeed. Support cannot be refused.

Situation 2: Yes, Austria can do that and if they don't need the armies for something else it would be a great way to ensure that what they wanted to happen actually happened.

Sicarius: Exactly, he doesn't want England to put an army in StP, so if England tries to convoy Sweden in, it'll bounce, but if he moves with the fleet as agreed upon, he'll get in because of Livonia's support.

oh liv supports the fleet. then yeah only the fleet will gwt in

It is true though that if England used his fleet to support the army in then Austria would be out of luck - so I guess the moves you outlined wouldn't guarantee the desired outcome.

The army is in Sweden? I was thinking Finland in my head...sheesh.

As said, the first is a clear yes - you can give unwanted supports.
For the second - if a support is given against yourself, then it is ignored, but it doesn't cause the move to fail.
Although you don't mention it, I must say I'm not sure what a bounce against yourself, using one of another players units would do on the adjudicator.

I wanna sit with you in a big tree
K-I-S-S-I-N-G
we'll be kissing with the birds and kissing with the bees
then I'll probably get all weak in the knees
then I'll fall right out
I'll fall to the ground and hear that ever familiar sound of
sitting in a field thinking about you
thinking about the things that I've through
looking at the birds
dont understand what its like to soar
and I dont wanna sit in this field no more
I've tears that 'll make these summer crops
tears that'll make these summer crops grow

hey listen to the song thats on here.
I hink it'll play by itself

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=33341567

sorry this is so off topic I just like to share things I like

Wait. Hold on. Your first example is a little unclear. But my interpretation is this:
Unit A and Unit B BOTH belong to Country A.
My first instinct would be, support or no, they would bounce eachother because they are from the same country.

For the second example, I assume you mean finland and I do believe you can do that.

No, supporting a unit is how you defeat a self-bounce tactic and it cannot be refused by the country trying to self-bounce.

What a unit can't do is dislodge a unit from the same country, or support such a dislodgment.

It can support a unit to enter a conted vacant area, even if the contester is a unit from the same player.

So essentially the general consensus is that yes, my two mind farts are indeed plausible within Diplomacy rules?

Oh, and no, I meant Sweden, implying that Britian has to convoy to the army in, and thus cannot support it. But thats not really all that necessary an element to the situation.

Both are advanced tactics. NOT FOR BEGINNERS or PLAYING WITH BEGINNERS

What does that mean? :P

BTW, from a beginner wanting to learn advanced tactics, what does bouncing two units one against the other yield? Why not just hold?

It can keep a third enemy unit from invading the territory withou tpossibly allowing them to move in behind on or the other of the two bouncing. Essentially it's a territory protection practice.

Real scenario:
Kiel is owned by Germany but is empty.
Germany has armies in Berlin and Munich.
England has an army in Denmark.
Austria has armies in Tyrolia and Silesia.

Problem:
If Germany moves an army into Kiel (and England *doesn't* order Den-->Kiel) then Germany can lose either Berlin or Munich to Austria because they are now empty.

Solution:
Germany:Ber-->Kie, Mun-->Kie.
Austria:Sil-->Ber, Tyr-->Mun.
England:Den-->Kie.

Result:
Munich will bounce Berlin and Den.
Berlin will bounce Munich and Den.
Tyrolia and Silesia bounce.

England will not get Kiel while Munich and Berlin will remain occupied, so Austria can't take them.

However, Austrias solution:same scenario with added Diplomacy:

Germany:Ber-->Kie, Mun-->Kie.
Austria:Sil-->Ber, Tyr-->Mun.
England:Den S(upport) Ber-->Kie.

Result: Berlin moves to Kiel with support from Den (even though Germany didn't want it to!). Munich bounces. Austria occupies Berlin.

This is sneaky and can be a really nasty surprise. I used this against Germany not long ago. ;-)