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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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mrfixij (159 D)
21 Sep 08 UTC
Chat records
I'm currently involved in a game with a handful of new players, VERY fast paced. As a result, I'm getting messages flying at me, especially over the global chat, between strategizing and asking how certain features work. As a result, some of my transcripts are getting lost in the chatlog. Is there any way to expand the viewable window of press?
2 replies
Open
New WTA game 50pt bet - Points per Supply Centre is for Wimps!
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=5775
2 replies
Open
Invictus (240 D)
21 Sep 08 UTC
Is There Any Way To Have The Spellchecker Accept "Rumania" As Correct?
I mean, it's so irritating. I can't be alone on this.
5 replies
Open
Hat-trick (0 DX)
18 Sep 08 UTC
Why don't Sardinia and Crete change colour?
Just wondered !
11 replies
Open
pumpanickel (0 DX)
20 Sep 08 UTC
WW23
Hello guys

I have created a new game. Come join and have fun. It's called WW23. It takes 12h per round, so pleaseonly join when you are serious!!

Thanks

pumpanickel
1 reply
Open
Churchill (2280 D)
20 Sep 08 UTC
Adjudicator in League game
http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=5665
5 replies
Open
TheMasterGamer (3491 D)
19 Sep 08 UTC
Old threads
Where do the old threads go to? I wanted to check something I recall having read.
3 replies
Open
Zxylon (0 DX)
20 Sep 08 UTC
NPT (Nuclear Proliferation Treaty)
Just wanted to see what you guys think of this.
Iran wants peaceful nuclear energy which is allowed under the NPT
US and much of the west wont allow this and break the treaty by refusing to let Iran have it. So whose wrong the US for breaking the treaty or Iran for pursuing it (or are they lying)?
6 replies
Open
DeliciousWolf (112 D)
14 Sep 08 UTC
Some Questions for Mr. Birsan
Which is your favorite country to play and why?

In your opinion, which country is best for first-time players? (thinking of my girlfriend here...)

What differences have you noticed in styles of play among countries/nationalities/age groups/gender, etc?

EdiBirsan (1469 D(B))
15 Sep 08 UTC
I change my favorite country every 5 or 7 years just for the hell of it. Currently I am working on Germany. No special reason other than the one before was France. The only thing that is fairly consistent is that Russia is my least favorite when I am not working on it. Russia *in FtF games is a real roller coaster as it is the weakest 9 center power on the board and more than one time I have seen it (in myhands and others) go up to 9 and then 6-3-0.

In the Bay Area Diplomacy Association where we do a lot of recruiting we nearly always start new comers with either France or Turkey. Both countries are forgiving of errors in tactics and what not. Usually France is better than Turkey from a defense side for a new person.
The other thing we do for new people is to always read their orders first and then to correct all their errors before going on to the next person. This reduces the frustration factor.
If you are going to play in the same game as your girlfriend then make sure you are Austria or Turkey so as to avoid issues. Better yet is not to play in the same game.

As for different styles among countries etc there is a lot to say there.
For the Face to Face group I wrote an essay that got published in Italian in a book on games in Italy/San Marino. You can look at it here...
http://www.diplomacyworld.net/pdf/dw102.pdf
for a view of the cultural biases in scoring systems *FtF mostly.

There are significant game culture differences in approach to the game, much of it can be seen in the article above. However game cultures can be changed by competitive focus on various scoring/ranking systems as well as the structure of the game played itself: are games played forever till a win or a stalemate, are games played to a specific date, is it agreed that draws are a concept or is it just supply centers that count, what is the scale of achievement recognition that people are AWARE of or using as compared to what everyone else on the game is doing?

Gender differences are not as clear and are very distorted by observer bias, age and culture background and the generally low numbers of people in that class.
Also remember that many of my experiences are clouded by decades of play while the world has changed tremendously so the memory aspects are very incongruent.
Recently I can tell you this about watching face to face games with new comers and some with some experience on families:
Brothers will generally fight, sisters will normally leave each other alone but will unite when one of them is attacked though not when one of the sisters is the attacker. Fathers are usually doomed.

In the PBeMail world I am just trying to get reacquainted. Where the current vogue is to play with nicknames/handles and to obscure real identities and social discussions etc. it is very hard to determine who is and who is not a specific gender. Not that it is always that clear with names in the first place.
For example in the 1960's many people thought that Edi was Edie and that I was a girl. In fact I used this in at least one occasion in the postal world play. But then again that is another story....

WhiteSammy (132 D)
15 Sep 08 UTC
now that my friends is a response
DukeAtreides (100 D)
15 Sep 08 UTC
Pretty damned awesome.
DrOct (219 D(B))
15 Sep 08 UTC
Seriously awesome. It's wonderful to have such a player in our community! Now I just have to hope that we don't scare him off with all to frequent CD's and poor play.
MajorTom (4417 D)
16 Sep 08 UTC
Thanks for the comprehesive response!

I have a question as well: Would say you have a certain style of play?
I've seen players who fall all over the spectrum as aggressive to conservative players, risk takers and opportunists to those who try and keep a low profile and fly under the radar.
EdiBirsan (1469 D(B))
16 Sep 08 UTC
Well Major Tom....
Hmmm... my style of play... generally other people define your style and you snicker in the corner in silence deciding if that style is something that you can use to your advantage when the time comes.
Over the course of 43 years of play I have had many styles of play. I started as the youngest player in the hobby and was called the first juvenile delinquent because of the all the very wild (and somewhat illegal) things I did growing up in the hobby as it were. I was also one of the more famous viscous stabbers in the late sixties and generally one of the strongest tactical players. Actually I did not start as a good player over all, though it would seem that I was always a good tactician for which I can credit tons of games of Escalation one on one for in the period between December 65 and February 66.
By the start of the 70's I was semi civilized as the old timers used to say, and I became a more respected ally and still a very feared enemy.
Of course style and reputation come together and while I was on a tear through the hobby in the early 70's I also became a massive target such that for probably most of a ten year period ending in 1989 I was jumped on so many times and wiped out that I considered it a great victory if I survived with more than 1 unit at the end of a game.
I have also had the reputation of being very good for new players and I will go out of my way to help them. I have turned down more solo possibilities than solo's that I have taken and good part of that is that is my view that if you have to take 18 centers to win the game, then your diplomacy has failed. I like to do different things and tweak systems and I am always up for a challenge.
I am very calm and level headed for the most part though I can get sarcastic and I like puns. I believe that the purpose of playing the game is to have fun and make it fun for others and when that is no longer the case the time is to end that game.
I like to learn about the players in the game and my general approach to the game of Diplomacy is that 'I like to play all the countries in the same game though I only put in orders directly for one, which really shouldn't matter that much if I play the game right."
I am humbly egotistical and self over-confident. I like being a mentor and bringing people into the joys of the hobby. I gave up on the idea of a low profile somewhere around 1967 or so when I became the first person to win a game with each country in the postal hobby and I was playing about 20 games at a time. Low profiles are ok for some people but it is not something that is practical for me as I have one of the highest profiles in the hobby. Believe me I have suffered through enough of the Gunslinger Effect in my games to prove it.
Anyway hope that answers your questions.
DukeAtreides (100 D)
16 Sep 08 UTC
Edi, are there any specific tips you would give a new player?
EdiBirsan (1469 D(B))
16 Sep 08 UTC
I wrote a player guide with help from the hobby for someone going to his first Face to Face tournament. It is in the archieves somewhere but you can write to me at EdiBirsan at Astound dot net and I will send it to you.
Otherwise tips for new players are many and there are many articles on this in the various DipZines. I am a little pressed for time here, but maybe what we need to have is a LIBRARY on the site where we can have relevant articles like that posted so that people can have easy access to them.
MajorTom (4417 D)
18 Sep 08 UTC
Thanks again for the excellent answers Edi!

Over the course of my time as a diplomat (not nearly as long as yours I can assure you) I've found the role of semantics and pshychology fascinating. I think each of these is an area of stark difference between the anonoumous somewhat impersonal play online and FtF gaming.

Are there any articles you would recommend on either or pehaps both or any insights you can fit into a forum post?
EdiBirsan (1469 D(B))
19 Sep 08 UTC
Articles:
There are many articles on all sorts of aspects of Diplomacy... quite a few by myself even. There is a wealth of info in the Archives in the resource section of the Diplomatic Pouch
www.diplom.org
as well as in its zine issues. There are also plenty of articles in the issues of Diplomacy World
www.diplomacyworld.net

Some specific articles on psychology you could look at
Self Fulfilling Prophesies
Cultural Differences in Scoring Systems
I remember writing an article on the Psychology of Diplomacy back in the 70's in my own zine Arena but cannot remember what happened to it or what good it is...
In my player guide for people going to their first Face to Face tournament I cover some of the social psycho issues of a tournament in FtF.
Anyone can always write to me at
EdiBirsan at Astound dot net
and ask for some articles on something and I will see what I can dig up for you.
sean (3490 D(B))
19 Sep 08 UTC
you can find Richard Sharp(e?)`s book online. i will post the link when i get home. It`s informative, brief, easy to understand and funny as an added bonus. he has a chapter on each country clearing explaining possible opening moves,friends and enemies and possible 18 sc target endings.
i would say it is the best quick guide i have seen.
DukeAtreides (100 D)
19 Sep 08 UTC
http://www.diplom.org/~diparch/god.htm is the book sean was talking about. It's a decent guide, but anyone can see it's heavily biased towards Germany and against Turkey and Italy, so keep that in mind.
EdiBirsan (1469 D(B))
20 Sep 08 UTC
Richard Sharp and I disagreed while he was alive on some of his fundamentals in his book though his writing style is excellent and it is worth looking over. Additionally some of the openings that he uses fails to take into account the strategic and diplomatic effects as well as leaving out some of the multiple country options and more esoteric but interesting options that were developed and were in vogue and out after the 1980's
DeliciousWolf (112 D)
20 Sep 08 UTC
But Sharpe's guide is frequently cited, referenced and used by Dip players, I think because it is comprehensive (not a series of disjointed articles scattered over the internet.) Where is Edi Birsan's book ?? That, I would buy.


14 replies
GrizzlySurprise! (256 D)
16 Sep 08 UTC
Teh Leagues?
What exactly are these leagues?
10 replies
Open
Blackheath Wanderer (0 DX)
20 Sep 08 UTC
Moscow Mule 4
215 points to join... PPSC. 24 hours play.
0 replies
Open
EdiBirsan (1469 D(B))
19 Sep 08 UTC
Do draws include all survivors?
On this site, do all draws include all survivors?
For example England has 16 and Turkey has 16 and Germany has two. Can the Germans elect to agree to a two way draw between England and Turkey.
Or is it that the draw must include all survivors and then England and Turkey would have to wipe out the Germans in order to get to a two way draw?

As background, numerous Face to Face tournaments have different rules on how votes are take (some are open like here or secret)
some votes require that 30 or 29 centers be in the majority others require a unanimous vote to pass anything,
some say you can vote yourself out of a draw
some say that there is a minimum number of centers or time past before a game can be voted to an end.
some have no concept of a draw at all but only have the vote to end the game.

What are the exact details here?
15 replies
Open
Blackheath Wanderer (0 DX)
16 Sep 08 UTC
Who thinks a nuclear Iran is a good thing?
Or a nuclear anywhere?
80 replies
Open
izawa (100 D)
20 Sep 08 UTC
Hey guys, just wanted to try this out.
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=5763

Newbie here.
1 reply
Open
Vakarro (100 D)
20 Sep 08 UTC
new game
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=5758

I've played Diplomacy a few times before, but this is my first time on the site.
1 reply
Open
Chrispminis (916 D)
19 Sep 08 UTC
Hit the Jackpot
It's a neat game I've been playing for the last half hour, and I've been most pleased with my results. =D

I've won a world cup, and have scored 2078. I've yet to break through to the master's board and represent Canada however...

See if you can beat my score!
5 replies
Open
JesterJoker (174 D)
18 Sep 08 UTC
Draw in Game -6
Germany, Turkey and Russia want a draw in game -6.

I'm Germany and I say sure.
3 replies
Open
Blackheath Wanderer (0 DX)
17 Sep 08 UTC
Meta-gaming: Good, bad or inevitable?
This is what Maniac has to say on meta-gaming

"what i was trying to acheive is letting my opponents and allies know that building partnerships spans games and if you stab me in one, watch out for me in another. Once that's clear, i think i would be stabbed less - it's the meta-game - not cheating!"
15 replies
Open
amathur2k (100 D)
19 Sep 08 UTC
Please draw this game -6
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=5407&msgCountry=Global
I am russia, and turkey and germany will be posting their agreement shortly.
1 reply
Open
Invictus (240 D)
19 Sep 08 UTC
Play this! http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=5743 "Dolchstoß"
It's called Dolchstoß, which means "dagger stab" in German. It was used to describe the idea that communists and other domestic subversives were the real reason Germany lost the First World War. Lots a fun, people.
4 replies
Open
DingleberryJones (4469 D(B))
18 Sep 08 UTC
Diplomacy for sale at Barnes & Noble
I was surprised to see this, but in the small games section at my local B&N in NJ (a mega bookstore for those outside the US), right next to chess and Scattegories was Diplomacy. I never would have thought to find it there.
8 replies
Open
Centurian (3257 D)
18 Sep 08 UTC
Convoying: What Would Happen?
I'm curious what would happen if two powers tried to convoy the same unit and both orders would work.
6 replies
Open
EdiBirsan (1469 D(B))
18 Sep 08 UTC
Game starts at other than 1901...how? Why?
I was looking at some games in progress or ended (forgot which) and I noticed that some games were started at dates other than 1901. What is that all about?
9 replies
Open
lacuto (1100 D)
17 Sep 08 UTC
Draw request for "Fun time at the beach"
The surviving powers in Fun time at the beach - Fra, Eng, Rus, Ita, Tur -would like to request a draw for the following game. Confirmations below.

http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=5375
6 replies
Open
Kapstadt (107 D)
18 Sep 08 UTC
Uncreation
Is there a way to un-create one's accout?
1 reply
Open
Anna.Turnipseed (100 D)
18 Sep 08 UTC
Scurry
I've started a fast paced game more intended for new players. so if you're really experienced, please give us a chance to learn!

New players, feel free to join!
3 replies
Open
MickFlanagen (100 D)
18 Sep 08 UTC
New Game
Hi, I have a new game at:
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=5732
25 points to enter. 24 hour phases
0 replies
Open
nitish (2087 D(S))
18 Sep 08 UTC
New Game - The Storm
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=5728

PPSC, 95 point buy-in. I'm the second player to join; we still need 5 more.
0 replies
Open
EdiBirsan (1469 D(B))
16 Sep 08 UTC
End Of Game (EOG) statements
Do you all do End of Game Statements?
20 replies
Open
Yaniv (1323 D(S))
17 Sep 08 UTC
Question re the cost of taking over a country in civil disorder
Each player puts an equal number of points into the pot to join a game. Thus each supply centre has a point value.

When, during the game, a player abandons play and a country goes into civil disorder, the abandoned country is offered to another player at a 'cost'.

How is this cost to take over a country in civil disorder determined?
--
If the cost to take over a country in civil disorder is the average value per supply centre times the number of supply centres 'controled' by the country in civil disorder, since the SC counts are only adjusted after the fall retreat, the number of supply centres reflected as belonging to the country in civil disorder is often extremely inaccurate.

If the acquisition cost for a country in civil disorder is based upon the value of supply centres in its possession, does that take into account the actual SC count, as opposed to what the SC count might have been prior to the most recent spring season?
11 replies
Open
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