In which order? Does it depend on how the game is going?

On a side note, is it always a good idea to have in mind (before the game starts) which 18 centers you'll get, how you'll get them, whom you'll ally with, stab and fight to get them?

So, one reason it's not immediately flooded with advice is that it ALWAYS, from the very beginning when you get your first piece of press, depends on how the game is going, so while it's not impossible to talk about general strategy it makes it somewhat difficult and always with disclaimers.

It is always a good idea to have in mind those things, but be ready to change them at a moment's notice based on press/moves. But it's good to have an underlying plan for when things are up in the air or you're given flexibility.

As Turkey here are your general problems:
1) 18th center is either STP, BER, MUN, or MAR/SPA, and they are all very far away and/or very hard to keep once you have them.

2) By the time you get close to your 18th in (1), you're already a huge threat that everyone has decided to stop. The only way to get close to them without everyone panicking is to convince someone you're a long term ally and they should really really trust you

3) Italy and Austria are hesitant to trust you because once it's just you and them, they can't attack you nearly as well as you can attack them based on the board layout. However they don't trust each other either so not all is lost.

4) Sevastapol is a major threat and once Russia (or you) controls the Black Sea it's extremely difficult to kick them out and it's HUGELY important tactically. Unless one wants to all out attack Russia one must balance being friendly with Russia and the Black Sea Dilemma (to be fair, this is true for Russia as well!).

How you approach all these problems is of course up to you and your preferences. I'm happy to go more in detail to any questions you may have, but "just how to play Turkey" is about the same as "how to play" most countries: Do your best to get to 18 given your circumstances.

Turkey is an interesting country to play. A lot of people find it boring. Not me. Obviously getting your one build is easy, but if you can get your fifth you become an instant power on the board. It all has to do with your diplomacy. You need to talk your way out of the corner. As I am not in your game, I don't know what you have been saying to your surrounding countries, but your diplomatic efforts needed to start in spring 1901. Beg, borrow and plead your way to the fifth center

These games might help:
gameID=40604
gameID=3537
gameID=26422
gameID=8030
gameID=70933

I agree with ssorenn - Turkey's biggest challenge is talking/breaking his way out of the corner. I don't think it comes with a fifth center, because Turkey's hold on either Greece, Serbia, or Rumania is going to be too tenuous to consider it a position of power. I've had games where I can't get past that damn fifth center, and I've had others where 5 is the tipping point.

You're always on the clock though to break out. Turkey can't afford to sit on 5 or 6 centers until 1910 or 1911, as by that time you're likely dealing with a 10 center E/F or G and you're playing the draw game. Patience is a virtue though as Turkey.

Thanks for the tips. I appreciate them

I think turkey would do a lot better if nobody ever went Smy->Con in Spring 1901. It blocks up the fleet from being able to enter the med, it involves you in mind games with Russia and Austria, and it makes you easier to lepanto. My least favourite turkish move.

^This

@ATC. It's a great move if you are sure Russia won't take BLA. If they do, the Turk is at an immediate disadvantage

I'm not sure what putting the army in Con has to do with Russia taking Bla - can you explain your stance?

If you're worried about Russia taking Bla, then a bounce is fine. My problem is with Smy->Con, not what happens with the fleet.

ATC, if I move the fleet to con to get out to med, I run the risk of giving BLA to Russia. There's no point in letting army Smy sit where it is. Now, if you feel that that diplomatic ties with Russia warrant not bouncing and getting that fleet to med, that's a different story

Ah - I'm not advocating immediately going Arm->Con, I'm advocating not going Smy->Con.

I think the following are all better moves:

Smy H
Smy->Arm
Smy->Ank
Smy->Syr

(which turns out to be an exhaustive list of everything else that it can do except supporting to Arm, which would be silly).

My concern about the road block in Con doesn't just apply to 1901 - for example, if Italy is lepantoing, and Russia is friendly, you have a guess in 1902 as to whether you can put your Ank or Bla fleet in Con or not (because if F Smy bounces in Eas or Aeg, there's nowhere that's 100% ensured for A Con to go to allow the first fleet through).

If there isn't an army in Con, you don't have this problem.

The nice thing about Smy->Con is nobody ever asks any questions about it. That's sometimes an advantage, even though I think the move is tactically worse than any other move.

My Turkish strategy - which has been successful the last few times I tried it - is to go all out on Russia from the beginning. Doing so hard and convincingly can usually turn I/A on each other. The minute they do, swoop in on them. The east is very, very easy to manipulate from Turkey *if* you maintain trust with all your neighbors through fall 1901

The way to play Turkey is to go aggressive and take risks. If you sit back and wait; then Austria in particular is going to becoming significantly stronger than you. Turkey can afford to take a risk and for it not to pay off; because it's the most secure position on the board. But this strength becomes a weakness from about 1904 onwards as it becomes tougher and tougher to break out from. Nurture relations with Italy, Austria, and maybe Russia. An IT and an AT are interchangeable in 1901; you don't even have to pick there until 1902. And if you're going to Jug - go hard or go home. Black Sea bouncing during a Jug is a waste of time for both parties.

HR, isn't that just how you play every country? :P

Not entirely. I'd never advocate something as aggressive as, say, hedgehogging as Austria. ;)

I suppose you wouldn't :D

When I play Turkey, I find 5 SCs to be the critical mass needed to break out. Talk to your neighbors and determine which fifth SC (Gre, Ser, Rum, or Sev) is the most likely capture, then pursue it relentlessly (tactically and diplomatically) until you gain it through sheer willpower. A, I, and R will probably start off inherently distrusting you, but your neighbors will oddly grow to trust and respect you more if you play with stubbornness. The other corner power, England, also seems to reward pigheaded players, but adopting this attitude as one of the more centrally located countries will most likely only get you killed.

Once you get up to 5 SCs, not only will you become (nearly) impossible to kill, you'll also have a TON more options and can finally begin to play more like a "normal" country.

In Gunboat, generally if a Lepanto forms then you must defend until it breaks or you lose. If in the unlikely scenario that Italy did not open Lepanto, you then have more choices. I actually quite like Smy to Syr first move. It forgoes a two build opening but gives you options.

ATC, I just checked your 4 most recent games as Turkey to see your follow-up of A Smy H (or any other move), but in all 4 you actually went A Smy-Con. Could you link a game that showcases your point of view?
Not being sarcastic here. Thanks.

Were they gunboats? I think it's fine for gunboat.

I don't think I have a FP game as Turkey on webDip since I started thinking this way. I'll see if I can find someone else that does it somewhere.

Actually, I've mostly been playing gunboats for a while, since I don't have the time. My stats have taken a beating, since I'm terrible at gunboat :)

Agreed bounce in bla sucks bad.
Agreed bounce in arm with sev and smy can be good.
Gets most of the time a russian armee in rum, 1332345 times better than
The fleet there (for t).

Once did this in a ftf game.
I was t.
Smy h
Ank- bla
Con bul
Russia sev -arm
War -gal
Mos - ukr
Bul s ukr-rum
Bla s smy-arm
Smy-arm
Russia
Ulr-rum
Arm h and destroyed in retreat
Build f
Smy
A war
A sev
F stp nc

That juggernaut rockef

Germany must have been misled really badly if he let Russia get Sweden...

Also if Russia decides to stab you and retreat to Ankara, he still gets 3 builds and you are dead.

Why? Whats the reason to bounce, as a default? Extreamly rare i do that, maybe if f and e are at war already or it looks lile ah will explode

Yea wrote wrong
F01 was smy-ank

No SunRa, what I meant is that you should bounce Russia in Sweden if there is a Juggernaut forming because you don't want them to overwhelm Austria too fast.

I would consider letting Russia into Sweden if a Lepanto was happening, but otherwise no juggernauts please

Try opening A Con-Bul, F Ank-Con, A Smy-Arm.

In the longer term, you really need to make sure A/I break up. Italy will often stab Austria, or you can ally with Austria, convince Italy to attack France and convince Austria to stab him in Venice. That's harder but I've seen it happen more than once. Or you can ask France to attack Italy (as part of a Western Triple for example), and fight Austria one-on-one. However, that's a fight you may not always win.

Aside from this, diplomacy matters more than tactics. Turkey can't force his way out of his corner, you have to talk your way out.

I'm with ATC on the army Con thing. Except i do advocate an alternative (as you can probably see by looking at most of the games where i've played turkey)

It is A Smy -> Armenia, and fleet Ank -> Con; but with this provision. You must inform russia that you are moving to armenia, you can tell him that he has the optiOn of bouncing or of taking black sea, and that i makes no odds to you. (Realistically Arm can defend ank, along with fleet con, but in the future fleet con stops Lepanto in its tracks - along with a newly built fleet Smy) so you are offering russia a free pass at black sea; but you are telling russia that your opening is anti-lepanto (thus pro-russian)

If he would have accepted a ounce in black sea, then a bounce in armenia is just as good (though he takes the risk of you moving to black sea, that is not something i've ever done) more often than not, i find russia heads straight to rum...

Worst case, russia opens to black sea, ukraine and moscow to sev, (but even then you can build fleet ank and smash the russian fleet - and with army arm you have a decent shot at preventing a fleet build in sev)

Of course all of this presumes that there is a strong meta favouring the Lepanto (i'm not sure what the meta feels like on this sute at present)

More generally, i used to hate turkey, it is very slow and unwieldy, but it is also safe and highly defendable. Mid game you need to set your sights on either moscos (sev+rum) or the med (gre+tunis) or the balkans (serbia+... Whatever you can get your hands on) and in any case you are going to piss someone off.

Ah then i follow gobble, it all depends on rest of board ofc but if i and ah seem competent i would proberly let r in to swe anyway, i dont want a rusdian fleet behind me, i rather have it in nwy or ska. In my experience its a better way to win scandinavia as germany to have the fleet
In swe rather than gob or bal, but not always.

As Turkey, Lepanto in progress or not, is it a necessity to build F Smy in '01?

And if a Lepanto is (for sure) happening, I understand the openings and movements to properly defend it, how do you defend against it and not get stabbed by Russia?

Russia loses to Austria if he stabs you. He can't stab you.

What? No. Russia doesn't lose to Austria if he Wintergreens. Austria doesn't become bigger than Russia and Italy combined. Doesn't mean they necessarily will stab you; but press is how you defend yourself there. Get him attacking Austria and preferably get him into Sweden in 1901 so he isn't desperate for builds and decides to chase after Ankara.

Turkey does not always need to build F-Smy at all though. In fact, in building F-Smy you are basically ruling out an IT, because Turkish fleets have to go somewhere, and eventually that means Italy. A-Ank is a very good build if you control the Black Sea - allows for Armenia OR for convoying. A-Smy works too. The best defence against a Lepanto is just to get Italy, Austria, or both, onto your side in the first place.

@Bas, like this one. http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=168313#gamePanel

I talked the Italian into supporting me into Serbia in fall of 01

ssorenn, looks like you talked italy into a lot of things...

i tried a whole bunch of new tactics diplomatically that game....

I still ought to write my review of that game.

By the way, I talked Turkey into sharing a three-way draw with me :)

@ora: When I play that opening (so far only in face-to-face and gunboat) I tend to not inform Russia. I'm worried that if he knows about the opening and the potential anti-Russian continuations, he'll open Sev-Bla, Mos-Sev, War-Ukr and try to get something going against Bulgaria together with Austria. Has that ever happened to you?

Bas. We had too much empathy for the poor German. We should have killed him. Just saying :))

I want to hear your thoughts about that game

@bas, i din't think so, only recall russia ever once repaying me like that. But it didn't proceed. You can check my games (but i'm not sure there is a way to filter down to only turkey) as i usually use that opening...