<Bzzzzzt> Wrongo!

http://news.yahoo.com/king-bibis-reign-challenged-israeli-election-061428651.html;_ylt=A0LEVjyYyghVp54Ao3gnnIlQ

Netanyahu overcomes the Obama-backed Herzog and pulls out the win.

krellin: Israeli politics are set up in a way that both parties can get the same seats, but the government still goes to Netanyahu. That's what happened, so the warmonger is PM again. And Herzog wasn't Obama-backed. Biden-backed, if anything. Honestly, all that really matters is that he pulls more seats than any other right-wing party.

TrPRado, you moron, I understand that.

Obama sent State Department money to organization funding Herzog, you stupid twit. Obama openly bashed Netanyahu, while claiming he didn't want to get involved. Ass clown. Get your naive fucking head out of the liberal shit-sands, you blithering idiot.

And if by "war monger" you mean "defended his nation against Terrorists" then I agree with you, you fucking piece of shit. You are the same sort of jackass that weeps fake tears when a black criminal is shot, and cheers when a cop on duty gets shot. Go the fuck away, you useless waste of oxygen.

krellin: It was some Democrat with power. I only ever read it was Biden or Kerry, this is the first I heard Obama himself had anything to do with it. In regards to Netanyahu, he sours relations with Western executives like Obama, and he validates the causes of the terrorists, which itself spurs on the wars. Wars that kill innocent Israelis. Herzog seeks to invalidate the terrorists and their cause so that the Palestinians and Arabs that sympathize with them will come to view the terrorists for what they are. Also I don't cheer when anyone gets shot. How ignorant of you that you would portray me if anything to be my own opposite. But you never pay attention to what I say, and blow me off when I agree with you.

And I'm the only non-Jewish liberal that ever comes to the defense of Israel, so go fuck yourself, krellin.

Gentlemen, keep it civil please.

So the Israelis have apparently re-elected a murderer. Fantastic.

The Israelis re-elected Ted Kennedy?

Krellin, go die in a ditch in Palestine - a hell of a lot of other people are about to. Netanyahu has openly rejected the two-state solution, and so he is an admitted war-monger and troglodytic barbarian. He is not interested in peace.

Those who live by the sword shall die by its edge.

The Israeli election falls in line with what Russians found out with its Extreme-Left in 1917 and what American candidates are finding out with the Tea Party--

When people are uncertain and caught between different options, go to an extreme, kick, scream, and yell that the other party will be the death of you all and that you're the savior......and you'll probably get a good amount of votes.

The Israelis have made their bed, and now they have to lie in it.

They're going to get nothing in the way of help or support from Europe, they're only going to become more hated and have their teams and exports and national representatives more loathed in Europe, if a Democrat wins in 2016 they run a real risk of straining the decades-old alliance to the breaking point (which I've been saying for, what, at least a year now?) and, oh yes, Jews around the world are going to experience more Antisemitic hatred BECAUSE King Bibi was reelected...

At a time when more Antisemitism in places like France and the Ukraine are JUST what they need!

After all, Israel, in part, was supposed to be a state that would protect the Jews...

That's why they just elected a man who will ensure thousands more die both in Israel and around the world, and who will ignore Israel's economic concerns and the voice of every (now FORMER) ally on the planet for...what...a few more scraps of dust in the West Bank?

The Israelis better think that's worth it, because they lose everything and everyone else at home and internationally with Bibi.

(The happiest people today, outside Israel? The American Christian Far Right...and given that that's because plenty of THEM think Israel being involved in a war or rebuilding the Temple is necessary for our old buddy Jesus to come back...yeah...not the best allies, those who are happy you won because they hope you lead your nation into an apocalyptic war?)

"Krellin, go die in a ditch in Palestine - a hell of a lot of other people are about to. Netanyahu has openly rejected the two-state solution, and so he is an admitted war-monger and troglodytic barbarian."

Bibi's rejection of the two-state solution in so radical a fashion reminds me of George Wallace's speech--"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever."

He won a LOT of support from the Far Right in his state in his time with statements like that...and all he had to do was make himself and his villain look like backwards monsters and villains in the process...but what did he care, HE got elected, after all.

Thanks, Bibi!

It's time for America to end its relationship with Israel. There's no excuse for being associated with an apartheid government.

#fuckthucy

Do you care to defend the monster Netanyahu? Because I can't imagine any sane person doing so.

Eh, I don't really have much sympathy for Palestinians when they continue to support terrorist organizations and elect them as their "government". I wish thinks would work out, but violence is not the answer. They need to build a time machine and go talk to Gandhi.

It's time for America to give Israel the cold shoulder *as long as Bibi's PM.*

That'd be my caveat, Thucy.

I still think other leadership could right this rotting ship...

But that doesn't for the moment change the fact (much as I wish I did, much as I'm sad to say it) that Israel IS a rotting, seemingly-doomed ship under a crazed and murderous pirate of a captain in Netanyahu.

He IS a monster, Israel WILL suffer vastly in the diplomatic arena for electing him, and my liking and believing in Israel as a nation doesn't change either fact.

No, but we as a country will stand with Israel as a democratic beacon in the midst of....

One leader does not make a country and their ideals. If that were the case, many would argue to not be allied with many of the g7 countries.

Two state solution is fucking ridiculous. Legitimze a terrorist group by awarding it a state? Israel already allows non-Jews in it's government. Will Palestine allow Jews in it's government? Doubt it. they'll just further their ties with fucking Iran and seek to destroy Israel completely.

You childish, head-in-the-sand morons are just blood-thirsty for Jewish blood. fuck you all.

I feel like a lot of the anti-Israel people are missing the point about why Israel is like this, and why a man like Netanyahu can get elected so many times. From the day it was founded, Israel has been attacked its surrounding countries so many times. A decent number of the countries in the region want it completely destroyed. And even in countries like Egypt that are not hostile openly, there's a lot of citizens who are anti-Israel.

Israelis are concerned that if they don't stand strong, they could be wiped off the map. And for a people who have been exiled, conquered, enslaved, massacred, etc. countless times, they have some legitimate fears.

I'm not saying Israel is beyond reproach, but I think there's a severe lack of understanding of the conflict.

the animosity in the region is generations deep, its easy for all you side chair diplomats to reason against what they are doing, get a fucking grip

"No, but we as a country will stand with Israel as a democratic beacon in the midst of...."

So?

Being democratically elected doesn't make him less of a murderer, or the Israeli Right less fascistic...

And why should America stick with an ally that::

1. Doesn't listen,

2. Goes behind the back of the President to give an unwarranted speech in Congress (and I know you hate Obama with a fiery passion, krellin, but my point is if an Israeli leader or any leader did to a Republican President what Netanyahu did to Obama, you'd consider it a huge slight to the United States...BECAUSE IT WAS),

3. Gets us nothing but poor reactions when we try and defend their actions,

4. Won't let us HELP them end a decades-old conflict, because their current PM, like Hamas, LIKES and WANTS that conflict to continue, because as long as it does, he can play up the security and fear-mongering and far-right expansionist extremism to get reelected despite the economy and diplomacy and the world image of Israel and everything ELSE tanking for the sake of a few measly settlements in the West Bank...

Why should the US back that?

"One leader does not make a country and their ideals. If that were the case, many would argue to not be allied with many of the g7 countries."

Then the US should do what I and other Jews will do now, and back the people and not the country. There's a difference.

The President of the US in 2016, Democrat or Republican, can make it damn clear they support the people of Israel...but NOT Netanyahu. Make it clear Israel's BFF and, that's right, supplier of the arms necessary to defend that state wants new leadership after four terms for Bibi, and we want it NOW. Make it clear the United States wants to back the State of Israel, but NOT under Netanyahu, Likud, or Far-Right Leadership.

And then see how long King Bibi lasts.

The anti-Israel morons are like bullies on the playground. They don't get what they want, they are jealous of your lunch, so they punch you in the face and demand you hand over your lunch-money. Their two-state solution is to award the fucking bully by requiring you to bring him lunch every day.

Fuck that...better solution: get a group of your friends, and beat the living tar out of the fucking bully (Palestine) and when and ONLY WHEN they stop firing rockets and mortars into Israeli neighborhoods should anybody take them as serious actors.

Fuck Palestine.

Remember last year (maybe two years ago now) when there were all those truces that kept getting broken? Damn Israelis.... oh wait. They weren't the ones breaking them.

Oh. Damn Israelis.

If a 2-State solution is such a fucking glorious idea, then let's carve out a piece of Iran and give it to Palestine. All you idiots that think the ONLY way this works is to carve up Israel - slowl squeeze them out of existence - are showing you pure hatred for Israel. You don't want peace...you want to finish what Hitler started.

"Two state solution is fucking ridiculous. Legitimze a terrorist group by awarding it a state?...You childish, head-in-the-sand morons are just blood-thirsty for Jewish blood. fuck you all."

1. Yeah...pretty sure I'm not thirsty for Jewish blood...so...there's that...

2. Forget the issue of if the Palestinians deserve a state for a moment, krellin. I think they do, you don't--that's fine. We can agree to disagree on that.

But what is Israel supposed to be?

A Democratic and JEWISH State.

Absorb all the Palestinians, absorb Gaza and the West Bank...and over time, the Jews WILL be outnumbered in their own home by Palestinians and other Arab and/or Muslim groups.

You don't see that as a threat to Israel's identity as a Democratic, JEWISH State, if its Jews are outnumbered by Arabs and Muslims?

Obi - you are a self-loathing twat. Shut the fuck up.

Obi, you self-loathing twat, Israel IS a Democrat state that INCLUDES Arabs in its governemtn

"If a 2-State solution is such a fucking glorious idea, then let's carve out a piece of Iran and give it to Palestine."

Congratulations!

You managed to pick yet ANOTHER religious war, since Iran's Shiite and the Palestinians are Sunni...

WOW, it's almost like you think all Muslims are alike with no religious factions or disagreements among them which might cause region-wide wars or something!

GOD you're a genius, krellin!

the US will never say it backs the Israeli people but not their ELECTED leader, goes against the principles of democracy.

"Then the US should do what I and other Jews will do now, and back the people and not the country. There's a difference."

there may be a difference, not arguing against that, but from democratic govt stand point, no really possible

Obi, you do know that back in 1948, the Palestinians were offered their own state (MUCH larger than the current "Palestinian" territories) and DECLINED it, opting rather to join with the surrounding Arab nations and invade Israel.

Yeah, so don't go around acting like this is Israel being tough. Israel didn't start this.

"Obi, you self-loathing twat, Israel IS a Democrat state that INCLUDES Arabs in its government"

And, you know, the whole MAJORITY Jewish vs. MAJORITY Arab thing?

How about security concerns? You think the 6-7 million Jews in Israel will be safe if there's more or even double that number of Palestinians and other Arabs? Because you yourself think the Palestinians are so peaceful, right krellin? They won't harm the Jews there at all......

"Obi, you do know that back in 1948, the Palestinians were offered their own state (MUCH larger than the current "Palestinian" territories) and DECLINED it, opting rather to join with the surrounding Arab nations and invade Israel."

Yes, I DO know that...in part because I cited that at least a dozen times last year during the war...when I supported Israel against most of the people here...

And, you know, you +1'd my comments all the time, so I'm pretty sure you read them (health hazard though that might be.)

"Yeah, so don't go around acting like this is Israel being tough. Israel didn't start this."

Israel didn't start this, but that doesn't mean they didn't make a piss-poor decision yesterday that's going to lead to lots of loss of life on their end, abroad, and for Jews in the Diaspora.

When you love someone or something, that means being HONEST above all else...

I love and care about Israel, so I'm not going to pretend I think electing King Bibi was a great move for them when it wasn't.

And you're taking this off-topic.

We're talking about the Israeli election yesterday and Netanyahu.

Sorry obi, I don't remember contents of old posts so well. That does sound right, though.

Anyway, I honestly don't think it makes much of a difference who got elected. Even if the other guy won, we wouldn't have a Palestinian state in the next 4 years.

We'd still have a better public face for Israel, though...

The world HATES Netanyahu, and thus Israel, and that matters. That means less aid, less allies, more hatred, more Antisemitism (because that's something that needed fuel right now), and more wars.

Even for those here who don't care about the idea of a Palestinian state, or the Palestinians themselves, yesterday was a nightmare, unless you like having Jews die in wars in the Holy Land (which I understand some fundamentalist Christians get off on here in America, but that's not really a good reason to vote for someone as PM, and those aren't the kinds of friends Israel and Israel supporters should want.)

Obi - you truly are a blithering idiot. You argue both sides of the issue at once and are too stupid to even realize it.

Your problem is that you find yourself torn between your love of Israel and your infatuation with Obama. A once-die hard Israeli supporter, you suddenly find love for Obama has twisted your views on Israel.

You fully admit that the Palestinians are *incapable* of peace, and yet you have the gal to call our Isreali defense against terrorism as somehow bad?

Go away, you perverse, twisted fucktard.

krellin: The two-state solution wouldn't legitimize the terrorists, it would delegitimization their cause. They would lose any reason to fight that anyone in Palestine or Gaza would actually support, and so the terrorists would lose power. And Herzog did prioritize defense throughout the election. He sought to reform to prevent any future war (which he would be willing to fight), so that innocent Israelis wouldn't have to die. Netanyahu has no vision for the future. His policies will sour Israeli relations with not only the Democrats in America, but just about every other nation in the West along with them. His policies have steadily been ramping up worldwide anti-Semitism. He also is more corrupt than people realize. He fired the Ministers of Finance and Justice just for disagreeing with him. And the Minister of Finance he just fired (Yair Lapid (my personal favorite Israeli politician)) prevented corrupt flowing of money that existed all through Bibi's rule, and Bibi wanted to keep that corruption flowing. Lapid spent most of his time fixing that. After a number of members of Likud left the party, Lapid had the largest party in Knesset. When he was fired, his party was kicked out of the government, making the opposition bigger than the coalition. Because, again, he had no plan for the future.

"How about security concerns? You think the 6-7 million Jews in Israel will be safe if there's more or even double that number of Palestinians and other Arabs? Because you yourself think the Palestinians are so peaceful, right krellin? They won't harm the Jews there at all......" This brings up another good point. If Israel controls that whole area, Hamas won't need to build tunnels to get into Israel and kill innocents, they'd have direct access. Iron Dome (which saves lives and I'm thankful for that) would mean practically nothing anymore. Hamas would also swell up its ranks with the rest of the Arabs, who are mad at Netanyahu. Oh, but he's so good at protecting Israelis. You're so naive, krellin.

Why does America have to be involved at all? It's a disgrace that the Obama administration backed Herzog, and it's an equally appalling disgrace that most of the American Right has been brainwashed into thinking that Israel is actually a good ally.

Honestly, I don't give much of a shit about the plight of the Palestinians. Historically, they have played stupid games (attacking Israel) and won stupid prizes (getting bombed and bulldozed into submission).

However, I *do* care about America's inexcusable involvement throughout the region. We back Israel and then we wonder why large swaths of the Muslim world dislike/hate us. We're honestly lucky that al-Qaeda, the Taliban, ISIL, and Boko Haram are as small as they are, given our foreign policy.

And for what? To protect the very same people that damned near sank the USS Liberty (AGTR-5)? The very same people that commit bona fide war crimes with alarming regularity? Like I said, I don't care about the Palestinian people (in accordance with my philosophy of 'play stupid games, win stupid prizes'), but I *do* care about dead American sailors (USS Liberty attack) and war crimes (deliberate Israeli use of white phosphorous [as an incendiary, not as a smoke screen] against civilian infrastructure).

In short, I concur with TrPrado et al but for entirely different reasons.

I understand that emotions tend to rise about this topic, but please keep the personal attacks down. If you must insist on being so heated, take it to PM's.

This a warning to everyone, not any one person in particular. Please keep it civil, and don't force us to intervene. I'm sure we can all act like responsible adults.

-webDiplomacy Moderator

If the two-state solution is going to make Israel so safe, then why did unilaterally pulling out of Gaza make it so much worse?

Hamas got elected to power and increased illegal weapon shipments into Gaza. There were increased rocket attacks into Israel from Gaza. Tunnels were dug under the borders to increase weapon shipments and invade Israel. Kidnapping of Israelis and killing off of Palestinians that disagreed with attacking Israel.

With those as established facts, why would anyone expect a different result with Israel pulling out of the West Bank. Palestinians are suddenly going to disarm and destroy tens of thousands of rockets. Does anyone serious expect them to stop fighting when they still are teaching their children to attack?

Furthermore, if a two-state solution would make Israel safer, then why did the Israeli public just vote against it?