Wrong question. Suicide is something a person does alone. There's no way to stop that, so the issue is moot. Now, is ASSISTED suicide an acceptable alternative to suffering?

I'd say no. The argument against assisted suicide is similar to the argument against the death penalty. You shouldn't kill a criminal because he might turn out to be innocent tomorrow. You shouldn't kill a terminally ill person because he might change his mind tomorrow. Simple, really.

And you shouldn't pay any attention to Marble's argument because he might retract it tomorrow.

Suicide is not an ethical alternative to suffering. Suffering, while difficult and awful, can be withstood, can be overcome, can be conquered, can be dealt with. As a community of human beings, we can come alongside our fellow men and women and provide care and support in the midst of suffering.

Suicide is the wanton, intentional destruction of life. It is murder of the self. Assisted suicide is assisted murder.

+1 to Octavious

So if you had a loved one losing his/her mind without hope of recovery, you would deny him/her the request to die while the part of the brain that makes them who they are is still working?

The answer to this is a question: Is Depression real?

1. I've seen many studies showing the effects of depression and how serious it can be.
2. I've seen just as many studies saying that Depression in the terms of a chemical imbalance in the brain is unverified and highly theoretical.
-I have a basic understanding of the functions and mechanics of the brain but this subject is still very complex and I can't add my personal opinion with any certainty.
=========================================================
Here is an alternative scenario: World will blow up unless you kill yourself. I believe that is okay and situations as such I am fine with. let's not start discussions like that please.

@y2kjbk That is a mercy killing not suicide, we need a different thread for that

and @marble, the question implies about whether or not people view it as selfish, and hurtful to there loved ones. Also giving up on the world and not doing anything productive

The story in the OP is covering a mercy killing then. How do you differentiate between a mercy killing and a suicide? To what extent can you fully understand what someone else is going through mentally and physically that would result in them wanting to end their life? There are some black and white instances, but most are incredibly gray to be sure.

@JamesYanik, I see. The word "legal" should be deleted from the question, then, otherwise it would make no sense.

As for being selfish, hurtful or lazy, aren't these things totally irrelevant when compared to the momentous decision to take one's life?

Someone is in a coma, do you pull the plug or hope for a miracle? that is when mercy killing is decided.
Someone gets raped and fired from work, divorced, children exploded... that is when suicide is decided

The gray area is when someone is in pain and wants death but cannot do it themselves. My opinion in that case is KICK UP DA MORPHINE... no but even then it is a two-person decision. suos in latin means 'ones self' and cido means 'i kill' suicide stops being suicide when another consciousness is involved

and the selfish and lazy is very important, what if your suicide leads to your mother's suicide or someone you cared for? you may have well just taken a life but you just chose to die

and if you have no family, and decide to throw yourself into a volcano so there will be no mess, you could still volunteer to help other people, to save other lives.

as i said, the main question is: Depression, does it exist? (in terms of a medical, chemical imbalance in the brain)

@JamesYanik

children exploded... :D

"What if your suicide leads to your mother's suicide?" What if my suicide leads to world peace? But of course, my suicide must devastate the world, not that I'm vain or anything...

it will marble *sniffle* it will
:'(

Suicide is a human right, as long as the person is of the soundest mind we can expect him to be. Otherwise we have no rights, as it's your own body, your own consciousness you are removing, and your own decision to make.

@James, I don't think discussion of suicide in its general context is pertinent here. I don't think anyone arguing in favor is going to do so outside of the context of terminal patients.

i gotcha i was just discussing what marble was saying earlier

I will say its still amazing how much we still dont know about the human mind and how it works. Why do people think about ending oneself? In my view its a selfish act, to think that you are terminating yourself before your life is naturally over. There are so many things about suicide that makes me wonder. For example, a teenager commits suicide. I will give no reason, you guys can wonder that. What if that teenager were to meet their life partner in a matter of days, making their life better? Suicide for me is not acceptable in any circumstances, for you still have value. You can still make a difference. I have always believed that life will get better, and I have been right every single time. I hope more people will see it that way in the future.

To those who didn't read the story related to the OP, the lady mentioned is terminally ill, she has an incurable cancer that will kill her in a horrific, painful, and miserable way within months. She decided that she would rather die on her own terms before her disease makes her life literally a living hell that will end with her death after months of suffering. I cannot fault her for not wanting to put herself and her loved ones through the agony of watching her pass in such a painful way.

I have watched a grandparent slowly die as their cancer entered their brain. They spent months in pain, forgot everyone they ever knew, and were at the mental state of a newborn child when they died. It was the worst thing I've seen, and I cannot fault anyone for wanting to avoid that type of death.

Suicide committed by someone not terminally ill is a tragedy, as it means that our society failed to get that person the help they needed to overcome their depression or struggles. The key difference being, the medicine exists to help people with depression and other things that lead to suicide attempts. That is difference between morally right and wrong. Making someone suffer only to face a horrid, incurable death, cannot be justified. Making someone suffer to face the chance of a healthy, happy life can pretty easily be justified.

@JamesYanik, I'm not sure I understand this "Depression, does it exist?".

Are you asking is depression a medical condition? The answer, backed by years of research and medical professionals is yes. The chemical imbalance can come about through many different ways, but it is a medical condition. It is sad that people insist that those with depression suck it up and move on, that it's not a real condition. That's the equivalent of saying that a viral infection isn't real because the viruses are too small to see.

@jmo1121109

The matter of when suicide is justified and when it isn't depends on culture. The samurai or the Roman stoics had tons of situations when suicide was justified. Christians don't approve of suicide in any situation. As we all know, culture is a very relative thing.

Orka, do you not understand why the person in the article of the OP is committing suicide?

There are reasons those societies are extinct. Suicide by those not terminally ill is a failure of current society. And you're mixing religion, culture, and empires.

@jmo1121109 Actually, religions and empires contribute to cultures. By the way, are you implying that the Roman Empire fell because they had stoicism? What a curious notion.

I think the problem is more that you're saying it's the difference between morally right and wrong, rather than saying it's a bad thing.

Well the very simple answer is that it is morally wrong for someone to kill themselves over a medical condition that can be addressed with modern medicine. If it happens, society is failing to get existing medicine to those who need it. Not to mention it's illegal to attempt suicide in many countries.

So, I see that people distinguish suicide into two areas:

1. Alternative is face unendurable pain (medical) that will eventually kill you (OP for example)

2. Someone who is not terminally ill.

While I understand this distinction, I question it. Option A is taken because the person believes that their suffering will be unendurable, or at the very least, death would be better. But isn't this what non-terminal suicides do as well? They truly believe that they would prefer death to whatever it is that they are suffering, be it economic, social, etc.

Why are these two so distinct? The both believe that death is better than the pain that they will face.

The difference between 1 and 2 is simple though KingCyrus. In case 1 the suffering is incurable. It cannot be lessened, and you will die. In case 2 even though they believe the suffering cannot end that is the result of a medical condition that *is* curable or at the very least manageable. The people in case 2 can be cured so that they can live without suffering.

Essentially, in 1 every one at least believes they know that the suffering will not end until death, and suffering until death is worse than just death to that person. In 2 one person is convinced that his suffering is bad and will not end until death, but is probably wrong.

Rather easy example for you based on your cases. In each case pretend the the person was talked out of suicide and move ahead 2 years. Each person is asked if they are happy they were convinced not to commit suicide.

1) This person died suffering and cannot answer.

2) This person could easily be living a happy life with some basic medications.

@jmo1121109

Of course, the first person *could* be still alive. She could have found some happiness despite the pain. Not unheard of. In fact, that person might be "miraculously" cured! It's not unheard of either. But if you kill her right away, you'll never know, will you? You're just pretending to see years into the future. That's what is meant by the phrase "playing God".

Yeah, it is true that "miracles", as in, unexpected and unexplained recoveries can happen. Sometimes, it's better to defer to the persons wishes, though. Cancer all over that will cause pain until an (almost?) inevitable horrible death, combined with mental decay, is really one of those things you think of when people say: "Fate worse than death".

Very true jmo. But, in the minds of those who take their own lives, they ARE the same. As an objective outsider, you can see that. In fact, you might be able to see some good in the life of a terminally ill person that they cannot.

No one is ever going to say that suicide is the answer for depression patients or those otherwise inclined to take their own lives. Terminal illnesses are different though, and if all that's going to happen in the rest of one's life is pain and suffering as a result, it ought to be an option. If there is nothing to be done, let the pain end, allow the family to grieve, and don't put anyone, whether it be patient, family, or friends, through the hell of watching someone slowly and painfully die. It's awful to see.

I think it's selfish of family members who have power of attorney to override the stated wishes of their relatives and keep them alive, suffering, and tortured simply because they cannot cope with death.

And those aren't even assisted suicide cases, but rather DNR cases. Doing CPR on a 90 year old terminal patient is indefensible.