INTJ, not that any of you will believe me, and this will turn into a huge ego fest.

I have the book by Keirsey, and worked my type out through that. It's a serious science which has been undermined by the crappy internet tests.

I got INTP. I find a lot of the description to be accurate, though obviously 16 types cannot cover the entire spectrum.

This site isn't very indepth and i encourage you to just google intp or maybe even visit reddit.com/r/intp . Also there's supposed to different variables that go into each type. Maturity, age, gender, culture, and percentage fot are some big ones. Also each letter means something different. The first is E or I which basically either stands for mostly extroverted or mostly introverted then each other attribute has both an introverted (internalized) version or an extroverted version.

For example. My main function is Ne (extroverted inuitivness) which is just being able to intuitively find patterns and such from the physical world. So each type has a couple of superior and inferior attributes and the person is determined by the maturity or depth of each one.

So there's a lot more possibilities than 16.

Or (much better) read Please Understand Me (2nd edition) by David Keirsey.

AMP - We've been through this a couple of times. You really shouldn't have gone away for so long.

What have we gone through draug?

We, the community, have discussed personality types (MB and others) while you were absent. You should have stayed and been part of the conversation. :-)

Damn I should've. Well there are new members all the time, just like how jokes recycle ! *sobs*

Is this MBTI or socionics? You said MBTI, but the mention of the "Ne" function as a "primary" function looks like socionics.

fwiw I'm a socionics ENTp and I think that translates over to MBTI reasonably well; might be ENTJ, I don't know for sure. I used to know more, but I found most of my attempts to understand and use it turned into recursive/circular logic rationalizing my intuitive reads on people rather than being useful as a predictive tool.

After taking the test on that site, it's definitely MBTI. I got what I usually do INTJ, and the description matches. Also, using MBTI Ne is the primary function of INTPs. Socioconics flips the meaning of Percieving vs Judging I believe.

I came up ISFP, which was a little surprising to me. If had been betting, I would have lost money on ISTJ.

BTW I was wrong when I said INTJ (MBTI)= INTp (socionics). Here is the proper conversion method: http://www.socionics.com/articles/howto.htm . Either way, the test is definitely MBTI.

roughly

the underlying assumption is that MBTI Ne = socionics Ne, MBTI Ti = socionics Ti, etc.

that assumption doesn't hold if you read the descriptions of each

INTJ every time, and I've taken many tests for this.

What's interesting is how you can guess only from typing style what kinds of people are on here. Krellin for example, something like INFJ. Jmo, INTP. Steephie, ESTP. Even the use of capitalization gives huge clues as to your personality.

well, that's proof positive that MBTI =/= socionics

krellin is clearly an ISTj or ESTp in socionics

I did not understand a couple of questions, so I just correctly answered not sure there. The results seem convincing enough to assume that I wouldn't be something else if I made the test in Dutch.

Anyway, it says I'm INTJ. I'll figure out what that means and tell you how accurate it is later, since I'm learning for a testweek now.

@SYnapse:
Assuming that was meant as an offence to me, I tend to capitalize everything properly. I suppose you're talking about my nickname, but that's one I made up when I was 7 or something, and I simply sticked to it.

Also, did you take the crappy internet test too or did you not because you already did the good book-test?

Steephie I sincerely doubt you are
a) introverted - you seem the opposite
b) intuitive? - you seem to sense the tone around you more
c) judging - you seem far more perceptive.

Are you sure you did the test correctly? And yes, I've been INTJ on a number of tests. It is speaking as an INTJ that I am sceptical of your result.

INTJ are less than 3% of the population, and I'd say it's one of the worst types you can be. (books say otherwise). It means you're highly introverted and inward thinking, traits often associated with sociopathy. Although I admit it's useful in fields such as science.

SYnapse, no personality type is "better" or "worse" than another. All of the characteristics of the individual types are value-neutral.

INTJ here.

I don't agree, PE. As an introvert I recognise that extroversion is far more advantageous in any society past or present. Studies have shown that extroverts have better careers, relations, wellbeing and life satisfaction. And I believe it. Not that I would trade my current personality for another one.

Diplomat, how do you find INTJ? A blessing or a curse?

That means that in particular situations it is more advantageous to be one over the other, yes. That's entirely different from one being "better" or "worse." You betray a fundamental misunderstanding of the entire model with comments like these.

And how would anyone know whether their type is a "blessing or a curse"? You only have the one, with no other mode of experience or expression.

"Steephie I sincerely doubt you are
a) introverted - you seem the opposite
b) intuitive? - you seem to sense the tone around you more
c) judging - you seem far more perceptive."

a) You're wrong. You are biased by my appearance on the forum, but that is the sole exception. I don't talk a lot. Sure, I type a decent amount, but I don't talk a lot. More importantly, it's not that simple. I thought you studied sociobiology or something? You ought to not be so biased and, well, simple... Extraverted would mean you are spontaneous, enthousiastic, an easy talker... And, what I notice from others a lot and can really annoy me, they tend to be loose-lipped, pushy, bad listeners, very... I don't know, shallow.

I'm introverted because I'm patient, disciplined, dedicated, a good analyzer, a good listener... I must say I don't recognize much of the bad traits except being passive (in social stuff, I can lead projects no problem, but you either give me the lead and I decide what happens or you take the lead and the responsibility. Democracy works for me, but in projects, the first thing I ideally want to do is democratically elect an authocratic leader. Unless we've got all year of course, then I just don't give a shit.)... Just naming stuff rather randomly, but I hope you get the point. Oh, and I forgot I'm extremely calm. So calm that people quite often say I'm stoned, even.

b) I kind of do both, a lot. I think it is the most accurate to say intuitive though. For example, I often don't know how I know something, but I do know how I know it, presumably because I subconsciously remembered it. In a sense, that means I often answer questions and everything intuitively. I do get it wrong every now and then, but that doesn't change anything about how intuitive I am.

c) Let me google perceptive... Hmm... Well, I really don't see those 2 as opposites. I perceive stuff and then I judge them. Isn't that what everyone does? If I had to pick though, judging it is. While I do like looking around wondering stuff, I'd rather close my eyes and judge what I think of theories and stories and such. But yeah, I'm decent at perceiving certain stuff too... But that's more a case of focus. I miss a lot of stuff for the sake of following other stuff. I have trouble following conversations when I try to follow one of them but hear another one too. So judging it is.

I suppose the big exception to this is that if someone comes with a problem, I try to just listen, not judge. So judging in the sense of theories and such yes, judging people not so much. Perceptive never really though.

For example, I often don't know how I know something, but I know it*

Accidently added 3 extra words there.

Moreover, reading the profile on that site, I finally feel understood, lolz...

This is actually from the INTJ page and I couldn't have said that part any better (I actually pretty much thought the same a couple of times in Dutch :P), and since I didn't mention it yet here it is:

"NTJ personalities also often shoulder the burden of making important decisions without consulting their peers. They are natural leaders and excellent strategists, but they willingly give way to others vying for a leadership position, usually people with Extraverted (E) personality types. However, such action can be deceptive and maybe even calculated. An INTJ will retreat into the shadows, maintaining their grip on the most important decisions, and as soon as the leader fails and there is a need to take the steering wheel, the INTJ will not hesitate to act, maybe even while staying in the background. The INTJ personality is the ultimate “man behind the curtain.”"

I had something else to say but dinner is ready.

Yup, the profile fits me pretty perfectly. I don't think I could've said it any better.

I disagree on it being a disadvantage. Indeed, it's just a set of neutral traits.
To step out of the introvert trait of being modest/humble big time (and try not to consider me cocky for this, I'm just trying to prove a point) I sometimes consider myself a potential game changer, if that makes sense, because I'm quite unique. I can't think of anyone IRL who comes even close. At the very least, it seems extremely unlikely to me that I don't get an ambitious career unless I choose to not get one. Romance is a different thing I suppose, but for now I enjoy being solo (I prefer solo above single :P). Moreover, I'm not that interested in the game, but more in the true one. If she's there, it will work out, right? If not, I don't really want anything anyway.

Other than that, I'm just satisfied. Perhaps I fool myself into being satisfied, but who cares? I'm satisfied.
It's not like I'm actively trying to be this though, I take it into account. I do get enough social interaction for my feeling, I just rather don't go to parties and have a drink with classmates when the week is done. I mean, unless they're all friends, but right now many of them are just those annoying extravert people who can't stop asking questions and are too busy actually listening.

I don't think there's anything else I'd rather be. I'm not just satisfied, I also have a bright future. Sure, others of my age might be more happy drinking a lot and everything, but as they keep on drinking, I keep on getting a bigger edge on society, right? And no, I don't particularly like small talk, but I'll join so people still recognize my voice :)


Please note I'm not putting any 'real' thought into this, I'm actually writing this as a break inbetween the learning for tests since I'm in a testweek, so the point is actually not to think, in a sense...

And now I've got a headache, dammit :)

ISTJ here; I've already taken the MBTI. MBTI is one of the only psych assessment tests that *isn't* bullshit.

By the way, SYnapse, you seem a bit focused on what you're not, or what bad things you are. Focus on the good things, don't give a shit about the bad things.

Alternatively, take the good things for granted and work on the bad things at ease.
For example, if you want to be a little bit more social and are good at school stuff, start teaching younger students/pupils, like I'm doing (well, not particularly for that reason I suppose, but it definitely crossed my mind... Of course it did, almost everything crosses my mind, right :P). You'll be in your element while 'learning' something you're not good at.

In the end I think it's all generalizations though. Almost all of it is sort of situational for me, although it does represent my usual state of mind best I'd say.

From Wikipedia:

As mates, INTJs want harmony and order in the home and in relationships. The most independent of all types,[13] INTJs trust their intuition when choosing friends and mates—even in spite of contradictory evidence or pressure from others. The emotions of an INTJ are hard to read, and neither male nor female INTJs are apt to express emotional reactions. At times, INTJs seem cold, reserved, and unresponsive, while in fact they are almost hypersensitive to signals of rejection from those they care for. In social situations, INTJs may also be unresponsive and may neglect small rituals designed to put others at ease. For example, INTJs may communicate that idle dialogue such as small talk is a waste of time. This may create the impression that the INTJ is in a hurry—an impression that is not always intended.

IMO this describes me and doesn't describe you. You wrote a much more positive account of INTJ than I associate with, as I associate it with sociopathy, a lack of empathy/interest with others, and a kind of dangerous idealism.

"You wrote a much more positive account of INTJ than I associate with, as I associate it with sociopathy, a lack of empathy/interest with others, and a kind of dangerous idealism."

That's because you don't know what you're talking about, as usual.

Does anyone else get completely different letters every time they take one of these tests? I swear it's like a random letter generator.

Actually, it's been shown that people who are mid-way between I and E have the happiest lives and good careers. Well-balanced, able to think and speak.

Abge, the problem with M-B is that a lot of the test relies on how you feel at the moment. The test results change a lot depending on if you are at home, at work, on vacation by yourself, stressed or relaxed, etc. Although the test results have been studied to death and have a lot of scientific backing, the test itself is wonky. That why I prefer the enneagram. It has a lot less scientific backing ('cause everyone's on the M-B bandwagon), but it has the advantage that most (not all, but most) people can pick themselves out pretty quickly. It has 9 basic types, each with two additional variations, for a total of 27 personality types, each with varying degrees of healthy and unhealthy states.

INTJ corresponds to a type 5.

Sociopathy relates to being excessively on the sociable, extrovert, side. All charm, no content.

Hmm. There's a lot of bad enneagram sites on the 'net.

Try http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/descript.asp#.UypYCc5oMZl or http://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/introduction.php
The rest of the eclecticenergies site is...interesting...and could probably fill up a few forums, but the enneagram part isn't bad.

Healthy INTJ's are the game-changers, the ones that can see past what everyone else does, like Einstein, Freud, Nietzsche, & Sartre. Unhealthy ones, though, tend towards detachment, paranoia, nihilism, and posting on dip forums.

Sociopathy is more of an unhealthy salesman type, extrovert, no empathy for others, & an inflated ego.

I myself am an INFJ don't know much about it but took the test 3 differant times and got the same answer. It pritty well discribed me.

@SYnapse: that Wikipedia quote really doesn't sound that bad to me. It's a matter of perspective.

When it comes to sociopathy, I really don't see how you come to that conclusion all the time. You can associate it with sociopathy all you want, but I have seen absolutely no argument for that from you. Wouldn't a sociopath focus on comforting people and pumping up their ego? Isn't that exactly what INTJs don't care about?

As for a lack of interest/empathy with others, well, it's a lack of showing that interest/empathy.

There's another side to that though. I often notice how people always try to show empathy and everything and, well, it doesn't make much of a difference at that point. You're just the person always pretending to care.

Now, if I cheer you up, or give you a smile or something, there's really something going on! I tend to like it a lot to cheer people up when they need it most and none of those extravert people can help at that point.

Which seamlessly brings me to idealism:
Idealism has little to do with it. Everyone has ideals. If anything, INTJs would be better able to look objectively at those ideals. The only reason our ideals might be more dangerous is because we have a bigger chance at achieving them I'd say.

I like to make people happy, and like I said, I use my general lack of emotion to give people a boost when they really need it.

Because I tend to think of everything (well, not everything), I always know what to do when something happens. If my dog lying next to me all of the sudden is on fire, I know how to save him.

Now, human brains are a much more complicated challenge, but it's a hell of a lot of fun trying to figure out how it works.

In the end, what helps me get up with an inner smile is the knowledge that when it comes to it, I've got everybody's back, within reason, or am working on it.

And I think it's fun, though tiresome at the same time, to figure out the social stuff that comes so naturally to most people, with my different mindset. Hell, I'm figuring out a specific girl lately, and how's that not interesting?

I'm never bored, really.

So in summary, the special parts of me are still special, and the parts I miss out on just give me unique possibilities, especially when helping others.

After all, if your average social convention-stuff needs to be done, trust me, they're not looking for someone, because almost everyobe can do that.

Supply and demand. Don't waste your time trying to supply what everyone is supplying, be unique. You're so much more independent that way. Don't make much effort trying to go with the flow, because guess what? The flow is running out of jobs. The flow is in crisis. The flow needs unique people. The flow won't get them if those.people try to go with the flow.

@Synapse. I love being and INTJ and would not trade it for anything. I enjoy having confidence and I enjoy not being a slave to emotion to levels where some of the other types are. I would also be interested if anyone knows about correlation between M-B scores and IQ scores? It seems that some groups on the bell curve often have similar personalities.

*an

I'll take the test again later giving slightly different answers at the points I hesitated, and see what happens then.