It´s hard to jump on the game already on page 8, but it could have been a lot worst if bb were playing. As the joke phase has ended, I will post my first impressions, without any re-reading.

I found TrPrado insisting on being a "major facet" completelly odd, but I haven´t played with him before, so he might have megalomania or something like that.

Ghug have been his usual unpleasant self and snowy is tring hard to be the new bb, but with less drama.

Jamiet haven´t started a fight over some minor detail of the setup so he might be scum.

Oztra posted in the first hours. His logic didn´t improve a lot, but he is at least posting.

The others didn´t gave me any first impression.

Now that I have my computer:
snowy:
ghug's behavior has several facets that bring me to vote for him. First and foremost was behavior very similar to what you were doing that led me to call you out. That alone I wouldn't consider worthy of a vote though, so I held off. I kept trying to gauge him alongside gauging other players, and I ended up pushing his buttons. His reactions tended to come down along the lines of calling me shit. But then when he started calling you out it seemed like something interesting was finally happening. And eventually he voted for you. And you're an easy target. A very easy target. So I took a second look. He called you out for calling him shit despite him playing a large role in the conversation. He called me shit despite playing a decent role in the conversation. And when he voted for you my immediate thought was "how many people are voting for him?"
And apparently ghug didn't know either. And there's no way he couldn't tell how many people wanted your head if he really was the one dominating the conversation. In which case why ask if 5 people were really voting for you.

And now it seems you've become his white knight and most adamant defender. Why is that, may I ask?

It's called bussing, snowy. Regardless of your alignment, scum will be drawn to your wagon if it's easy, and are willing to throw their fellows "under the bus," as it were.

Wow, I've never heard of this novel concept of bussing. Now it all makes complete sense!

If scum is bussing then the vote is not opportunistic. To suggest both at the same time is, I repeat, incongruous.

Despite appearances, you'll come to find that I'm actually far from an easy target. I just spent far too much time on discord and EM lately and failed to adjust. Ghug knows this as well, which further suggests to me that he really did think I'm scummy.

I'm defending ghug because I town read him. What kind of question is that? You're clearly trying to lead into the suggestion that both of us are scum, which only reinforces my scum read on you.

There is no sense of curiosity in the questions you pose. There is only direction and assuredness. As well as a truly inexplicable sense of snobbery which I confess I cannot see the source of, considering the level of play I've observed of you thus far.

"If scum is bussing then the vote is not opportunistic"

Okay let me stop you right there because that's some serious bullshit. The point of bussing is absolutely based in taking an opportunity. Why else would someone bus their scum buddies?

"I'm defending ghug because I town read him"

Why do you town read him? In the logic you posted I got maybe you could be trying to wait and see about what his alignment could be, so I want to know logic for saying he's town for sure.

I'm not even going to respond to that. Suffice it to say, he can't have been bussing me because I'm not scum.

It should also be mentioned that to understand the alignment of a player you must understand not merely what people say and do, but why they do it.

Let us contrast with the given examples:

You say ghug is scum because his vote on me was opportunistic and that his calling you and I shit, and the vote and everything in between stinks. You also observe that ghug simultaneously argued to be a dominant town force and that he claimed not to know how many votes were on me, which seemed to you to be conflicting.

Never once do you ask why ghug is running around calling everyone shit. You make a small mention of him trying to push you down to be the sole leading voice in the town, which doesn't ring true to me as he's been calling you shit long before you started posting in earnest. You never stop to ask whether ghug is opportunistically trying to bury me (4 hours into the game? That's nonsense) or if he's tossing me away seeing a lost cause (see previous parentheses). You just observe. You do not think. This lack of curiosity and analytical skill can, in fairness, be attributed to your lack of skill. But if I thought this was the only explanation we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Contrast to ghug. He saw me behave in a certain manner prior to this game, and decided that my current behavior was similar enough to warrant a scum read. He didn't just say "snowy's running around calling people shit, must be scum" but rather had this to say:

"I don't think it's the playstyle per se. You kept saying things with a brazenness I don't ever see from scum, and I townread you for it. You're doing it again now, and I'm not buying it."

Analysis. Yes, I was running around calling everyone shit. You would've stopped there. He stops to ponder why I'm doing what I was, and his conclusion is that I'm making the too-scummy-to-be-scum play.

This is not why I town read him, of course, merely a contrast as to why your own behavior is either supremely immature town play unbefitting of your confidence, or scum. Ask me which I think it is.

"Never once do you ask why ghug is running around calling everyone shit."
False, ghug made the same claim and I pointed it out as false there as well.

Oh sorry about that. Let me write you a paragraph or two about why I think ghug is town.

Wait, I already did. Add hypocrisy to your tally of misdeeds. Sad state of affairs when I can't point to it and say scum indicative, because most people around here are guilty of that.

"Wait, I already did."

No you didn't. You wrote a couple paragraphs about your thoughts on ghug. None of those reasons make him town by any stretch of the imagination.

If your argument is entirely meta-based, it's a bullshit argument.

Alright, I confess I don't think you're scum either.

But just because you say things are untrue doesn't make it so. You need to work on that if you want anyone to take the things you say seriously.

Nobody else is online, so I'm going to check out.

You're full of shit. That's basically what I'm reading in everything you post. I didn't think ghug's jump on you indicated your own alignment, but your actions and attacks on me stink to high heaven of someone defending someone they shouldn't be butt buddies with this early into a game.

But you're very probably wrong about ghug, and certainly wrong about me.

It's fine to be wrong, but go chase some other leads before you decide you want to continue being wrong.

"But just because you say things are untrue doesn't make it so."
The facts make it so. I've been paying careful attention to the game, and when I call something untrue it is because it is demonstrably untrue.

Good for you

What's up with you, Ezio? You've clearly got time on your hands. Care to earn a penny?

TrPrado: "BB: I understand the trick so no need to explain, but given the logic I've heard in past games, it seems to be far superior determining alignment of new players than experienced ones."

Hmmm, I don't really know what you're talking about, actually. What "trick" do you purport to understand? I mean, I know you're referring to my magic trick post, but what sorting method do you think I've used that actually only sorts inexperienced players?

Jamiet: "@Balki: You're better than that. Re-read."

God, why does this look so townie to me??! Damn! Am I just a sucker for compliments?

I like this response from Jamiet. It just screams wrongly accused. Not sure I can explain why. It's so short. It just feels like what Town Jamiet says to an early accusation, and what Scum Jamiet will say in the next game when he is correctly accused because I just said how townie it looks to me.

##unvote

The quotes you labeled as town were far more direct than the ones you labeled as scum. If a new player is scum, they'll tend to weigh their words far more carefully than new town players. But with experienced players it's quite obfuscated because their play will adapt (which is part of why I say meta-based arguments are bullshit).

While you're here, BB, what do you think of other players? Have your opinions on those you've "analyzed" been updated at all?

ND asks: "How do you have a partial reads list on Page 4? "

#magic

Current affairs, Conq. What are your thoughts?

"This isn't proving my towniness. I haven't done anything useful
This is just me arguing my non-scumminess"

I liked your question to Oztra -- asking him what he's done to reevaluate and improve his play. It seemed like the kind of constructive thing that Town Snowy, who is concerned about having quiet/unreadable folks in the fray, might say.

Specifically, how do you read ghug?

@Snowy, I see that you pinged me, but I'm still in catchup mode. I'm halfway down page 8. Give me a minute.

Also, it would be best if you call me Balki, and you call other people by their names. It's a lot easier to sort this stuff on Peter's bot if we all use consistent names.

TrPrado: "I've not defended you, snowy. As a matter of fact, I'd be quite fine with the end of day wagons being you and ghug. But ghug caught my eye as an opportunist in the manner of his vote for you. Interesting that you're the only two who doubt my contributions."

I know I pulled "TrPrado is town" out of my magic hat. But this post looks suspicious to me. It's possible that I am not magic at all. I simply wear large hats and am generally inhumane to claustrophobic rabbits.

I mean...you'd be fine with end of day wagons on ghug and Snowy? That just sounds so much surer about stuff than Town TrPrado should be a few hours into the game.

@TrPrado, are you really so sure? Why?

Me thinks this starting the same time as the Survivor Final Tribal was a bad idea...

I still think we should policy Vash

Torpedo: "The quotes you labeled as town were far more direct than the ones you labeled as scum. If a new player is scum, they'll tend to weigh their words far more carefully than new town players. But with experienced players it's quite obfuscated because their play will adapt (which is part of why I say meta-based arguments are bullshit).

While you're here, BB, what do you think of other players? Have your opinions on those you've "analyzed" been updated at all?"

Nah, that's not my magic trick. But it's okay. I was being opaque. And none of my tricks look very useful now that you're being all scummy and Jamiet reacted like Town Jamiet.

I've updated a few of my magic tricks as I've caught up with the thread. I don't have any particular inkling on anyone I haven't mentioned.