so what alternative is there to turn election into a decision which is made by one vote per person rather than the 1% of the population with 80% of the wealth (92% of statistics are made up on the spot)

damn obi did TC hack your account or something?

"grow up"
"get some experience"

you're ageist now too?

I was thinking the same thing, Thucy...

"They're hardly dens of corruption" lol look at New York. Teacher's union owns the legislature.

I don't think "grow up" or "get some experience" has anything to do with age. "Grow UP"....meaning, instead of wandering around the street chanting stupid slogans with no *real* objective in mind, actually formulate a concise idea to be communicated. More to the point, if your objective is "somebody take care of me because I'm feeling oppressed" and you have *yet* to ever *try* to take care of yourself, then you need to grow up, which is a statement of mental maturity, not age. There are many "grown up" people on WebDip forumns, and many of them are younger than some of these protestors.

"Get some experience". Again...if you objective is "I've never had a job, and now, damn it, I want to make $75,000 a year because THAT guy over there in the suit makes a lot of money" then you are an idiot (which goes back to "grow up". My First job was at Burger King. My 2nd was at McDonald's, and since then, BECAUSE I HAVE EXPERIENCE WORKING, I've never had to work fast food again. These morons that think they should make big bucks coming out of school have been sold a lie by the governmnet run education system and liberal media/politicians that tell them they DESERVE x,y and z because somebody had sex and they were born. Sorry...that's just not how life works. If EVERYBODY deserves everything they want....then who is going to provide it? Ahhhh...the ugly lie behind Socialism rears it's foul head...

Steve Jobs recently died and has been glorified, rightfully so, in the press. Steve Jobs was young when he started, he was driven to succeed, and even after failure picked himself up and kept on going. Steve Jobs is the exact opposite of these protestors...which is ironic to see some of these idiot protestors hating on Capitalism and corporations talking on their iPhones and using iPads, which are the epitome of Capitalism. lol

SHUT UP YOU FASCISTS YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOURE TALkING ABOUT

Well....that was a reasonable reply. Oh...wait....you are a supporter of the "protest"....thus your seemingly irrational response is, sadly, the norm...

As Obi has suggested, you need to grow up, XAQ...

And....if you know how to read (I doubt it...somebody probably typed that for you...) might I suggest you look up 'Fascist" and then please tell me **exactly** how I am a fasict.

Then grow up....

you are a facisist. noobzor

i think you know as well as i how the protesters are being characterized. mostly hippie kids, right? true or no, that is not a good reason to deride them. just like you shouldnt deride tea partiers for being mostly fat old white people

I honestly have no idea what the protestors are comprised of. It is clear enough from videos that they are not all hippie kids. What the few interviews with them reveal, though, is a desire to *get* some of what other have simply because others have more than them. I haven't heard anyone ask for specific policy to be enacted. There seems to be no spokes-person and no common cause...and yet oddly enough the UAW and various Democrats have latched on to this movement....which is weird....

But I never implied in what I said that they are hippie kids. I *did* imply it is people that expect to be given much, but whom don't seem to have a desire to *DO* much in order to deserve what they demand. If that is the definition of "hippie kid", then I called them hippie kids. In fact, I called them shining examples of why socialism is a failure....they want, but they don't want to work. They want everyone to have the same....but they don't want to work for it....but if everyone has the same, and nobody is working....them who provides?

Dear FatCat. Once you realize that there is a world outside of yourself, perhaps you will have a more balanced attitude towards the 'hippie kids' and whatnot. What happened to the Middle Class in this country? Land of the free indeed. Nothing is free here.

who says they don't want to work for it?

way to use two completely different definitions of Free to try to make a point

"so what alternative is there to turn election into a decision which is made by one vote per person rather than the 1% of the population with 80% of the wealth (92% of statistics are made up on the spot)"

Just like the "we are the 99%" bit. ;)

And...well, it's been a while since I've taken Poly Sci 101 but...

Don't we already all get one vote?

"you're ageist now too?"

Noooooo...

Just saying getting a life, job, experience, sex, ANYTTHING is better than just sitting in a tent and bitching about abstractions and not giving anything back.

"SHUT UP YOU FASCISTS YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOURE TALkING ABOUT"

Thank you for randomly shouting at nobody in particular and offering no answer to the debate at hand but rather just taking up space.

Say...there's a protest going on I think you might be interested in joining...

And again you have no fucking clue if they have a life, job, experience, sex or whatever. So why do you use it as an attack.

All you have done is created a convenient stereotype, and attacked it ad nauseam

"And...well, it's been a while since I've taken Poly Sci 101 but...

Don't we already all get one vote? "

And are you actually dumb or just playing dumb. You know (or should know) he is talking about influence corporate spending has on elections

"i think you know as well as i how the protesters are being characterized. mostly hippie kids, right? true or no, that is not a good reason to deride them. just like you shouldnt deride tea partiers for being mostly fat old white people"

True enough, but

1. There's a *reason,* after all, for such generalizations...there's generally a fair amount of truth behind them, even if that truth is being over-simlified, and such is the case here

2. It's the hippie kids whoa re attracting attention to themselves, so that's who the media's picking up on, so really, I see it as the movement actually defining who and what they are (for a change) in that respect, at least...consequently, the whole 99% schtick is a lie, as 99% of Americans aren't hippie-esque, and they're not...welll, whatever the converse of "hippie" would be, they're past the Vietnam era in a way these kids aren't.

3. If they're going to be stuck in the 1960s-70s era...can they at least paly some GOOD songs from that era? :p

4. Yes, it can be said the media is trying to characterize the movement, but again, points #1 and #2 are valid, I think, and in any case, the media colors everything, so 1. The kids should be happy just to get coverage and 2. If we have a "The media is biased and shouldn't color things" argument, we're just going to add another irresolvable issue and be here forever.

"Dear FatCat. Once you realize that there is a world outside of yourself, perhaps you will have a more balanced attitude towards the 'hippie kids' and whatnot. What happened to the Middle Class in this country? Land of the free indeed. Nothing is free here."

Dear Hipster:

Hi!

So great to meet you!

Well, what happened to the middle class, you say? ...Um, I thin k it's still here, *I* belong to the middle class...that's not to say the middle class isn't without its problems, and if you put down your angry posters and quit shouting rhetorical nonsense, I'd be happy to discuss what you think about the situation and try and come to a peaceful and maybe even beneficial--

OH!

Sorry.

I must have confused you for one of the protesters shouting and whining with nice words and no answers.

My msitake, of course.

And your answer to all of this, rather than going on about how I need to "open my eyes" and "look around me," the argument made by every single last movement ever on the face of the planet that was political in any shape or fashion...

Do you have any ideas?
Yes? Then what are they, please...I genuinely want to know. :)
No Then kindly quit using that empty rhetoric and childish-name-calling unless you wish to be treated like the melodramatic teenager you sound like.

And I just HAD to quote this twice...

"Nothing is free here."

...

YEAH.
IT'S CALLED CAPITALISM.

Sometimes you're on top, and sometimes you're on the bottom...

But everything costs something, right back to the days when the first Greek stopped, thought for two seconds, and decided exchanging coins representing value for goods and services would make exchanges easier so he didn't have to lug his cows and sheep with him to barter with every thime he wanted to buy a bottle of wine...

Capitalism:

It ain't perfect, but it works, and yeah--nothing is free in it, or life.

Groundbreaking assertion there.

Just for the whole ageist crowd although this should get me a fair amount of abuse. I came out of grad schools with a masters in humanities with about 3 years of office experience 2 years teaching experience, academic research experience, and award winning writing skills. I have been applying for positions since a teaching gig ended in June. I have sent out dozens of resumes many far below what my experience qualifies me for. I have gotten a 4 interviews in that time. and to the final round twice, still with no job. At the beginning of October I opened up my application process further and we'll see what happens. But its tough out there. Its easy to say people aren't trying, that all you need is "experience." But the cold hard fact are the boomers are not retiring and they are keeping their jobs and taking others and those leaving school are facing a tough time. Its funny the old men on here, who, unless they are really old, entered the job market in a booming economy and are now bitching about the young whipper snappers who are obviously lazy if they can't find work. It's a different world than when you entered the workforce in the 80's and 90's old man.

"And are you actually dumb or just playing dumb. You know (or should know) he is talking about influence corporate spending has on elections"

I thought so, but wanted to make sure I was right before I made an erroneous statement about it and someone said "What are you talking about, this is nonsense!"

(You might say that anyway, but hey, I tried.) ;)

Unless you're going to outlaw lobbying, I don't see how you're going to stop corporate influence on elections...

And as lobbying can be monotored and policed but NOT stopped, because money talks and always has and always will so long as capitalism is in place--if you want to hop onboard Putin's Communist Express and debate Capitalism/Communism, I'd love to on another thread--so I don't see how you can realistically accomplish that 1 for 1 you want...

Besides which, I'm not sure I think that's a great idea to begin with:

I believe everyone has the right to a vote.
I also believe that those votes should be, legally, the same in value, 1 for 1.
I ALSO believe, however, in the greater context, all people and all votes, thus, are not equal.

Steve Jobs' opinions would have been FAR more valuable and thus would have carried far more weight than mine.

It's still 1 for 1, but the unspoken truth is that Steve Jobs as a success is worth more and Steve Jobs, thus, has a louder voice based on MERIT.

If you want to say that we're unequal due to sex, religion, race, or soemthing like that, I'll hop onbard and agree, it should be 1 for 1 there.

But corporations have more influence because they represent greater successes than, say, a union-less, street-side arts and crafts maker.

Now, important:

I'M NOT saying tha arts and crafts person is useless or wrong or in any way besides monetarily less of an entity than the corporate leader...for all I know--and we might argue this to be probable--they might love their job more and be a nicer person.

HOWEVER, that arts and crafts worker's output has a miniscule capital value compared to the coprotation.
He or she is one person, the corporation is an owner, CEOs, management, workers, those who sell the corporation its materials, and so on, so there's more weight there.
The arts and crafts person may affect one or two or a few people at a time.
The corporation can service thousands or millions or more at a time.
Thus the corporation ahs a greater utilitarian value to it.
The arts and crafts maker is a luxury.
Steel and Computers and Auto and so on and so forth are all necessary in the 21st century.

So I see no logic lost in giving that which produces the greater capitalistic good--and, again, this is all assuming capitalism is good, or at least a fair way to go; if you want to argue communism, go ahead, I'll listen, but ust know here I'm only considering this in the capitalistic society in which we live--a greater voice in a capitalistic society.

After all, if you and your neighbors want to hold a party, and you're going to host it and provide most of the materials out of anyone, when this party is and other such considerations may be up to democratic vote...but you should get the loudest voice, as yu're contributing the most good.

"HOWEVER, that arts and crafts worker's output has a miniscule capital value compared to the coprotation.
He or she is one person, the corporation is an owner, CEOs, management, workers, those who sell the corporation its materials, and so on, so there's more weight there.
The arts and crafts person may affect one or two or a few people at a time.
The corporation can service thousands or millions or more at a time.
Thus the corporation ahs a greater utilitarian value to it.
The arts and crafts maker is a luxury."

Founding fathers are rolling in their graves, which is fine, but interesting considering you were just trying to appeal to one vote one person and poly sci 101

@SantaClausowitz...3 years office experience (which is what? "High School graduate" is the general qualification for "Office Work", so this is not an impressive resume item.) 2 years Teaching Experience.....as a Grad Student? As a qualified, hired-in Unionized Teacher? Or is there a little hyperbole here? Master in Humanities? <Yawn...>

What sort of job, exactly, are you applying for? Again, I see the attitude here that, "I filed some paperwork while I was in school and was a graduate assisntant....I DESERVE A JOB, DAMN IT!" Uh....you deserve the job you are qualified for - Secretary. When I look through job postings on Monster.com, I don't see a lot of need for experts in Humanities with strong filing skills!

Perhaps if you had chosen a *marketable* skill to educate yourself in....you wouldn't be having these problems...I completely REJECT your notion that it is everybody ELSE'S fault i.e. the Boomers - that you don't have a job. the problem is you have no useful skills.

Go back and get your teaching certificate, dumbass.

Actually I have all the useful skills the jobs I apply for require. I have all the experience they require. In most cases I have all the "preferred" experience they require.

"Uh....you deserve the job you are qualified for - Secretary."

Funny because I've been applying for Secretary and those haven't been working out either

"Founding fathers are rolling in their graves, which is fine, but interesting considering you were just trying to appeal to one vote one person and poly sci 101"

How so?
They put in the bicameral legislature idea for a reason...
Greater population=greater amount of goods=greater right to representation...
AND it's important to also ahve a 1 for one arena politically.

Hence we have one of each, the House and Senate.

Where have I violated the Founder's vision?
They certainly saw people as worth different amounts...

Besides which, as I do with the whole Ron Paul crowd, I say...

The Founders' vision/Jeffersonian political theory was designed for a small 18th century agrarian government, not for an immense 21st century nuclear superpower.