@shield you made me go to verify it, they are in the quran: http://quran.com/8

8:12
[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."

It's not to defend BOG, but to be honest, I've not bothered to put much attention to his words, so I really could not take a serious position, but I'm under the impression that BOG has deliberately chosen to ignore some comments adressed to him

Principans - "but I'm under the impression that BOG has deliberately chosen to ignore some comments adressed to him"
Thank you for doing a bit of research. I am not making anything up. I am simply pointing out that folks like ISIS are following the commands of Mohammed to the letter.
I will be going back and see what I may have missed. I will try to answer all questions put to me. I'm not deliberately ignoring comments. There is only so much time.
A good discussion of the entire koran. Start with the introduction at the bottom. http://www.jihadwatch.org/quran-commentary

"Thank you for doing a bit of research" you're welcome but I spent like 43 second on this "research", and by the way, I again didn't finish to read your comment, sorry, maybe later...

Muslims that don't behead non-believers are not ignoring the Koran in living their lives. They remind themselves of the Koran at least 7 times a day. They just see what is important and what is most likely invalid but merely added to the Koran, to make sure nothing's missing.

This has been explained to you before. You've ignored this before. A tiny amount of Muslims is ignoring this as well.

If you were born in a different place with the same level of ignorance, you'd be beheading people now.

That is 43 seconds more that most have done. Many have deeply held opinions unswayed by facts.

That's so funny coming from you.

Also for the record, for mosr Muslims, there's no such thing as an English Qur'an. You can't say parts of the English translation sound evil so the Qur'an is evil.

Learn Arabic or make sure to ask someone who knows what the interpretation is in the right group of Muslims.

Steephie -Muslims that don't behead non-believers are not ignoring the Koran in living their lives.
I don’t understand how you come to this conclusion. For a Christian, “Honor your Father and your Mother” is a commandment. If they don’t honor their father and mother, they are ignoring the commands of God. The same with a Muslim. They are commanded to strike the heads of non-belivers. (Kill/Convert/or force submission) If they do not do this, they are indeed ignoring the commands of Mohamed.

They remind themselves of the Koran at least 7 times a day. They just see what is important and what is most likely invalid but merely added to the Koran, to make sure nothing's missing.
So you are saying a Muslim can pick and choose what to believe? That parts of the Koran are invalid? That is not what a Muslim must believe. The Koran is perfect in the eyes of a beliver.


This has been explained to you before. You've ignored this before. A tiny amount of Muslims is ignoring this as well.
Just the opposite. A small part of Muslims are following the Koran.

If you were born in a different place with the same level of ignorance, you'd be beheading people now.
You have no facts on your side, so you vomit accusations based on your strongly held opinions.

Right. Blame the translation.

@BOG ok, I just read your whole comment addressed to me.

"I am simply pointing out that folks like ISIS are following the commands of Mohammed to the letter"

If you'r "simply" doing that, I have no issue with you, but what you've been implying here, is that ALL MUSLIMS are "following the commands of Mohammed to the letter"
Many commenters have made good arguments of why that's just not true. And here my SERIOUS opinion: That's not only not true, but makes no sense at all.
And muslims are not the only ones that follow violent religious (or non-religious) commands to the letter.

So, if you insist in the equation

ALL MUSLIMS = evil

given only evidence for SOME muslims, and not considering the fact that there are many other evil things that are not muslim, I can't help but join those who have called a *bigot*.

Principians - You're getting close. I am not saying all, or even most Muslims are Evil. I'm saying Islam is evil. If you follow all of the Koran, not ignoring those parts you feel are 'invalid' you get ISIS.
There are some wonderful things in the Koran. That is why it is such an attraction. Unfortunately, Islam must be viewed in its totality. If there could be a "Reformation" and a rewrite of the Koran it could be a force for good in the world. But the Koran is perfect in the eyes of Islam. Nothing can be removed.

Churchill warned Islam will lead to the fall of Western Civilization, and we will go the route of ancient Rome. My views are identical to Churchill's:

“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.”

If I'm a bigot , I consider myself in good company.

Just a doubt
Do you consider Christianity = Bible?

P - "Do you consider Christianity = Bible?"

No. Christ established a Church, not a book. The Church is the 'Pillar and Foundation of Truth'
“But if I tarry long, that you may know how you ought to behave yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” 1Tim 3:15
The Bible was assembled by the Church long after the death of Christ. For a very long time there was no Bible, but the Church grew and thrived.

I would like to thank parts of this thread, because the research i did helped me develop my knowledge of Saudi Arabia, and the brand of Islam which is has been linked to the House of Saud, though also which has been a challenge to the Saudi's power, and thus been in conflict with the Saudi international policy at times...

The Islamic playbook:

Sura (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"<p>

Sura (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"<p>

Sura (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah"<p>

The News:
ISIS Executes 12 Christians For Refusing to Renounce Faith
Leah Barkoukis | Oct 05, 2015
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2015/10/05/12-christians-brutally-executed-by-isis-refused-to-renounce-name-of-christ-died-praying-n2061450

"In front of the team leader and relatives in the crowd, the Islamic extremists cut off the fingertips of the boy and severely beat him, telling his father they would stop the torture only if he, the father, returned to Islam," humanitarian group Christian Aid Mission revealed, reports The Gospel Herald. "When the team leader refused, relatives said, the ISIS militants also tortured and beat him and the two other ministry workers. The three men and the boy then met their deaths in crucifixion."

They were killed for refusing to return to Islam after embracing Christianity, as were the other eight aid workers, including two women, according to Christian Aid. The eight were taken to a separate site in the village and asked if they would return to Islam. However, after they refused to renounce Christ, the women, ages 29 and 33, were raped before the crowd summoned to watch, and then all eight were beheaded.

The Religion of Cut Them to Pieces at it again. Just doing what their Holy Book tells them to do.

@ BaldOldArse: ""I understand the KKK, abortionist who target doctors and other cite christian scripture" Can you give me examples? Even one?"

I can answer on Maniac's behalf here. The KKK is an explicity "pro-Christian" organisation.

Here's a particularly good example of a KKK website which cites Christian scripture, at length, to defend a white supremacist position:

http://www.wckkkk.org/identity.html


There are other examples of KKK chapters / branches proclaiming themselves to be Christian organisations, so here's a second:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/21/virginia-kkk-fliers_n_5008647.html


There, I gave you not one, but two. Happy?

k. This is nonsense and BS.

Here are the first two verses they cite:

Genesis 28:14 we read "And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth. And thou shalt spread abroad to the West and to the East and to the North and to the South: And in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed".

And in Genesis 35:11 we read and God said unto him "I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply: A nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and Kings shall come out of thy loins:"

Clearly justification for lynching black men. /sarc

Anyone can call themselves Christian. I showed you in the post immediately before yours, where Christians were crucified, fingers cut off, and beheaded. Exactly what is called for in the Koran.

If you have something specific and relevant, I would like to see it. But don't waste my time by dumping articles and say it is in there. Be specific.

Um... he is not justifying the KKK's reasoning, only confirming that is in fact their ideology...

also, remember canon law? That passes down to an EXTREME extent

You make no sense. Anyone can call themselves a Christian. Show how the Bible justifies the KKK actions, as I have shown how the Koran provides direction to ISIS slaughter. That is the question.

And I really don't understand your last point. What does 'That passes down to an EXTREME extent' mean? Please be specific and cite examples. Don't just offer an opinion.

Call me jmo, but I would probably shut this thread down.

BOG I have some questions for you. I'd be interested in your perspective. Please don't skip and choose the easy ones answer them all.

What country do you live in?
How old are you?
What do you do for work?
What is your education background?

You say Islam is evil because of its texts, but how do you define evil? What makes what you're quoting inherently evil?

If there are many good aspects of Islam/quran mix in with the bad how can it be entirely evil?

You say Islam is the greatest threat yet everyone else has done just fine for hundreds/thousands of years. You say no one has the balls to defeat terrorism. Okay well I'm pretty sure common gun violence in the US kills something like 30,000 a year compared to say Islamic terrorism on US citizens outside war zones closer to 10. I'm shaking in my boots at Islamic terrorism as I walk through the Bronx at 3am Nevermind the guys trying mug and kill me.

You say Islam is the greatest threat yet everyone else has done just fine for hundreds/thousands of years. You say no one has the balls to defeat terrorism. Okay well I'm pretty sure common gun violence in the US kills something like 30,000 a year compared to say Islamic terrorism on US citizens outside war zones closer to 10. I'm shaking in my boots at Islamic terrorism as I walk through the Bronx at 3am.

You say you want to kill terrorists and their leaders? Who are these people? How do you identify them? Will there be trials? Who will pay for them? If you accidentally execute an innocent will you be a terrorist that needs eradicating? What if u drop a bomb and it kills 1 terrorist and 15 innocents?

When you kill an innocent childs terror dad and he's pissed that he's now an 8 year old orphan and runs at you with tears and a knife will you kill him as well?

What if other Muslims see this systematic eradication of their neighbors and friends and worry what if they are next and decide to defend themselves by attacking you. not knowing you are really after terrorists only they kust want to protect their families. Will you kill them as well?

How would you convince the masses not to join the fight while you kill their moms dad's brothers sister and children on your genocidal campaign? When you single handedly lead the world into a holy war that kills 4.7 billion people wages across very country including nuclear war as muslim countries rush to develop technology to defend themselves does that make you a hero? How would you stop non muslim countries from joining the war against your evil tyranny?

Lets say you kill all the terrorists without inciting a larger war. You say the next step is to convert everyone to Christianity. Your words. What if NO ONE in Islamic including moderates wants to convert and they tell you to stick it where the sun don't shine? They want to read their quran and pray. Would you give up your stated campaign to end Islam and convert everyone to Christianity? You say you would convert them but then say it wont be forced. How would you prevent them from following "pure" islam again?. Would you behead them until they converted? Would they be jailed? Pay a special tax? If no punishment and no one converts your whole "crusade" has failed and more people will continue to follow islam and the quran which you oppose. How do you stop this? Do you set up an execution squad to take out anyone who might be a terrorist? What happens when u die and stalin junior takes over and decides to use this awesome enforcement army to take over Christian countries and execute them for fun because Netflix is so 2020?

You ask how a follower of islam can live in free society. How can you live in a free society when you advocate eradication of a whole religion as your basis for existence? You can't because that free society doesn't support genocide.

What do you define as civilization and how can a religion be at war with it per your comments? If Islam "won" and everyone was muslim, would that not be civilization albeit one you don't agree with? What specifically  would mean it wasn't a civilizaton as you define a civilization?

You go on at length about the Umar pact yet most of these such as don't beat a Muslim, don't breach the privacy of a home and don't take up a sword seem like basic rules of living with other people. Sure some say don't repair places of worship but that sounds much more lenient that what you advocate. How is this evil? Be specific.

You say Islam is responsible for most of the world's conflicts. How do you define conflicts? Like in conflicted between pizza or steak for dinner? Conflict with your spouse over money? A mugging? A riot with fist fights? Random stabbings and shootings between whites and blacks in the US? Civil wars? Inter country wars? Number of wars or number of deaths and injuries? . Be specific and provide sources.

You cite 10 people here 6 people there in terms of executions. Ooo. Scary. 50000 people died in 3 days a Gettysburg. How is the death of 10 people a bigger threat than civil wars and Gettysburg? Disease kills more than islam. Why don't we eradicate that first then tackle islam?

End of Days…

And so it came to pass that the end of days had finally arrived. It was a Wednesday and a little cloudy with rain expected later. A billion or more Muslims had assembled each carrying a severed head and a collection of finger tips. The official police estimate of the crowd was 57,427 but this was ignored by the media who had to build some sense of drama. The Christian Army had fewer numbers but they were led by an impressively bald elder gentleman who stood firm on his mountain top as he surveyed the hoards below, stretching out to the horizon.

The long predicted battle could not start straight away. No self-respecting soldier would fight on an empty stomach and so it was agreed to start at 3pm sharp which would give plenty of time for a hearty breakfast followed by a leisurely lunch. Between now and the appointed hour the rules of war would be agreed. Killing people was a noble act and neither side wanted to upset their enemy by committing a faux-pas like using the wrong weapons to slaughter the other side. The first question to be decided was whether this should be a figurative war or an actual war. The Muslims had argued that a figurative war would be better, less bloodshed and it could still be talked about for millennia to come. Many Christian leaders would have acquiesced, but the elderly follically-challenged leader was having none of it. He had studied both the Qur’an and Bible strictly and the end-of-days had to actually happen for it to make any sense. It was therefore agreed this was to be an actual war based on a strict understanding of the Qur’an and Bible (and the New Testament in particular) – the lawyers on both sides would have a field day, (if they were anywhere close to the field; which of course they weren’t).

The Old Bald Guy turned to his supporters. He was disappointed that not many had made the trip. He had got several messages of support via text and his Facebook page but not many had actually made the journey. Some had said they were turning the other cheek instead, ‘how very convenient’ thought the Old Bald Guy. A few had wanted to be there but had other battles to fight and were busy burning crosses, shooting abortion doctors, or abusing the young children in their flock. Many billions more had decided that it was far more important to engage in an online debate about whether a Christian baker was right to refuse to bake a cake for a gay couple. It was this kind of thinking that had left the Bald Old Guy with fewer than 300 troops. Not to be cowered by overwhelming odds the Old Bald Guy drew his sword and gave a rousing speech to inspire his army. God was on their side; how could they fail?

Below the first Muslim had seen the drawn sword and this truth had spread through-out the whole encampment quicker than any rumour ever could. The Muslims were aghast. They had expected the peace loving Christians whose whole doctrine was based on turning the other-cheek to come un-armed. This was a development no one had expected and it concerned the tank commanders the most, ‘what if their swords scratch our shiny new tanks?’. The Muslim religious leaders were also concerned; ‘Was this the Sword of Justice, The Sword of Truth or The Sword of Reason?’. Their lawyers were on hand, via skype, to reassure them. The Swords of Truth, Reason and Justice couldn’t be used in an actual war – such things were only allowed in figurative wars. As it happened the sword in question was a rather fine, collector’s edition Anduril Sword.

Suitably reassured, at the allotted hour the Muslims advanced up the hill. The few brave men at the top raised their swords in unison. The Muslims halted and the lawyers were contacted again. It was then pointed out to the Christians that they could only actually possess swords if they had first sold their coats as demanded by Jesus in the Bible. The Old Bald Guy’s face was a picture, how could he have made such a noobie mistake? Fortunately all was not lost, the Bald Guy commanded that his army sell their coats on Ebay to one another and then buy each other’s swords. There was some discussion about how Jesus would feel about them buying and selling – hadn’t He Himself turned over Ebay’s table? The imperative to arm themselves soon overcame such reservations.

The Muslims giggled somewhat at the sight of their foe exchanging coats and swords but, being gentlemen fighters, had allowed them time to reorganise. As they reached the top of the hill the Bald Guy thought about swinging his sword in an attempt to take down the first of the advancing hoard. But he was frozen. His holy book had explicitly told him he could sell his coat to buy a sword, but could he swing it? Could he take a life of someone who had actually beheaded a man and stole his fingers? Logic dictated he surely could, but this was a war based on the actual literal meaning of the Bible – he had to be sure. He consulted his lawyers. Their answer was that there was no specific text in the New Testament that allowed for the taking of a life. His lawyers had offered to relook at the Old Testament; that would sanction just about anything. The Bald Guy was defeated, he couldn’t now revert to the Old Testament as much as he would have liked to. He had been hoisted upon his own petard. Not literally of course, he didn't own a petard.

The Muslims turned out not to be the boogie men the Christians had imagined and showed compassion when the Christians dropped their swords. They had tea together and started slagging off the Buddhist, Sikhs and Atheists.

For the record The Old Bald Guy hasn’t literally just been ripped a new one.

He still hasn't answered my questions. It seems it is pretty hard to answer with fact and reason after all.

How will his murder spree plans be codified, disseminate and sustained? Will it be written in a document? Will his followers have to adhere religiously to it? Will it break multiple national and internatonal laws against genocide that land him dead or in prison?

Is someone a terrorist if they say bad names at him? If they call him names in the name of the jewish God? In the name of allah? Would they be a terrorist if they threw a Pebble? If they threw it in the name of allah? What if that was. Terrorism but others disagreed that wasn't quite terrorism and joined the defense of innocent people BOG is killing as terrorists ? How would BOG resolve the disagreemental about who is a terrorist? If a dictator forces people into slave labor and freedom fighters attack his palace to end his tyranny in the name of allah but are unsuccessful and only end up killing civilians by mistake... are they terrorists?

If it turned out islam is the one true religion despite the supposed evilness of the text wouldnt killing them be evil in itself? I mean sure it's convenient that the mainstream religion where we grow up usually happens to be the right one.... but that's really based on faith and although you might have faith it's at least distantly Possible you could be wrong. I know i know. ... you have faith which is basically scientific evidence so you can't be wrong right?

Please use APA formatting 2 pages double spaced per questions citing sources for your answers BOG. Include an abtract.

DIPLOMACY invites players to practice invading other nations in the name of fun. Is diplomacy evil?

"Attacking austria as Italy in 1901 in concert with Russia and turkey can lead to a quick Austrian death but may not be in italys best interest" - diplomacy archives 31:15.

As the Sydney representative of the Peoples Front of Judea - I say Blessed are the Cheesemakers!

@BOG: Care to use quotation marks? You're making it needlessly confusing.

"The same with a Muslim."
No.

"So you are saying a Muslim can pick and choose what to believe?"
No.

"That parts of the Koran are invalid?"

Most likely, yes. As has been pointed out to you, which parts are most likely invalid has been well-documented. There's no picking involved, it has been carefully researched, basically looking at who said it, who they heard it from an how likely it is to be just a rumour.

You're not ignoring a command from Mohamed if someone just claimed Mohamed said it.

I can say Jesus said you should kill your parents and you'll say that's bull. Likewise, if you say Mohamed said something he most likely didn't say, we are right to call you out on it.