@abgemacht: A 'Mr Disgusted' is always a sine qua non.

@Draugnar: I'm compromising up to 30-30-40. After that we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Actually, a third each is better. So 1/3 my fault, 1/3 my partner's fault, and 1/3 my teacher's fault.

@abgemacht: A 'Mr Disgusted' is a sine qua non.

Wanna part, Mapleleaf? We'll include ice hockey and polar bears just to keep you happy. Stretches the budget, but that's how important you are.

However, to secure tenure, you have to fit a standard-sized polar bear into a standard-sized Walmart's bag. Up to it? (ps No disassembling/reassembling on site.)

Timur +1

Mapleleaf should have gone my the handle "sniper" since he loves taking pot shots at people.

Snipers are accurate and deadly. Maple only has a "pee"-shooter and a rather little, limp, and lame one at that. ;-)

Over compensation yes?

!? Are we bargaining here to take the blame? Does this matter?

I've done similar projects before and my teacher doesn't take half the marks off for a slight error in specifications.

My view is:

You erred on your part, together with your partner, for not complying fully with the teacher's instructions. Instructions are very important because in real life, if we threw them out of the window nothing would fit together.

The teacher was correct in not allowing disassembly. Having arrived with a timer half-inch too tall, you should not expect to be allowed to change the shape of your device to fit in the box before assembling it in class. Yes, there is no explicit rule stating you cannot disassemble the device to fit in the box, but there is no explicit rule stating you can either.

The teacher was wrong in deducting half the marks for the half-inch violation. I understand everyone's views about the importance of following instructions but this is a school project not a multimillion project. Surely a lesser punishment would have served the same lesson about the importance of the instructions. To punish you in this way was too harsh.

I would not put a 'blame percentage' here because it is pointless. The important thing is to realize that you did do wrong, and you will follow instructions from now on. Your teacher may be nasty but most teachers are nasty in some way and you can't bitch about them every day. OK?

@Gobbledygook: "but there is no explicit rule stating you can either" There was no explicit rule stating that the timers could not be made of wood, and yet wood timers did not break the rules. Other than that, I have no problems with your post.

Ah, typo, take out the not (coulcd be made of wood)

Guys, let it die. DM is a kid and is just not going to learn and take his elders advice seriously. He came looking for consolation from adults who live in the real world and found there was none to be had here. He is doomed to continue with these life lessons until he starts learning from them. Some people learn quicker than others and yet others never do learn (ala Paris Hilton). Only time will tell for this punk.

*CM, small typo

@Draugnar: Again, did you not see I admitted I was partially wrong?

I'll point out what others have... Until you take *full* responsibility for your actions (your teacher didn't build it and bring it to class not fitting; you did), then you won't have shown that you learned anything. Just say "I screwed up. I think the teacher was harsh, but I screwed up." and nothing more and you will have gained most of ours respect and maybe a little sympathy for the harshness of the deduction. Until you do that and stop trying to pass the blame on to others, you have learned nothing and earned nothing but derision and scorn.

@Draugnar: You yourself still said it was 20% the teacher's fault. I'm saying it was a third his fault. Does the difference there really matter? And I admitted it was a third my fault. I think that says that I screwed up, but if you want me to I'll actually say it on the next post.

I screwed up. So did my partner, so did the teacher, but I, myself also screwed up.

Oh, and btw, I knew I had screwed up the before I even started this thread. I didn't mention it because I had assumed you knew that, because anyone that wouldn't admit they screwed up at all in my situation should go to the loony bin. Now I know why you kept calling me a brat.

That's better. As far as the teacher's blame, that could have been prevented by hitting him up before class that day and getting a clarification. But I do think he was a bit severe in the penalty, however his goal may have been to teach following specs and getting clarification if you need it. You never did answer (or I didn't see the answer) what class was this for?

Do you also accept that your friend's mom gave you the best advice she could not being a mind reader or having any more info or insight than you had? And the teacher is just trying to teach you about following directions and asking questions before you jump in to the project. Honestly, that is the best lesson you can learn as far as applying the lessons learned to your potential future careers. Don't run off half cocked without a clear and concise understanding of what the client or customer wants.

I think CM has learned a second lesson here.

When you say something like it's 32% my fault and 21% their fault, people are going to think you're trying to shift blame from yourself. Even if you said 80% and 20% someone else, it still feels like you're not owning up. As Draug has said, just say "It's my fault," and you'll earn a lot of respect. We know it's not 100% your fault and most of us also think the teacher was harsh, but don't make it seem like you're squirming out of the blame.

Abgemacht +1

Perfect explanation. If you take the hit for all of the blame, CM, you get more respect and people will come out to back you and assure you that you aren't wholly to blame. But if you try to shift blame, then you are seen as dodging responsibility and trying to negotiate the blame is as bad as laying it all on someone else.

There is another lesson to be learned here as well. Don't look for a sympathetic ear and expect to get it from a group of old scounfrels like us. And if you don't hear what you want, open yourself up to hearing the words of the wiser elders instead of being a stubborn kid.

You have a bright future if you'll take the lessons to heart. If not, you have a future similar to TMDiplofool's: flipping burgers and living in your mom's basement.

Wiser elders? Don't make me laugh! The world is divided up into stubborn kids and stubborn elders. I've yet to see evidence of much wisdom from any age range :p.

I would add a few words of caution, however. There are plenty of people in this world who have stood up and offered to take the hit for all of the blame only to find that that's exactly what happens and they end up all on their own up shit creek without a paddle.

But his protestations reminded me of Queen Gertrude's comments: Me thinks (he) dost protest too much.

"Do you also accept that your friend's mom gave you the best advice she could not being a mind reader or having any more info or insight than you had?" I accept she was trying to give the best advice. I did share my concerns with her, and she paid no attention to them however, but her intentions were good.

Also, this was for Science. The specific name of the class is: Principles of Engineering 1. It is a class for a special academy at my high school, called the Space and Engineering Academy