@orathaic

This is the crux of the argument that I always see: you wouldn't be where you were without "the collective!"

"You did bot build the roads or train lines which bring you to work,"

no, but let's consider the former, then the latter.

1. the roads were built by government, first decided by small communities. generally these roads are poorly kept and offer many problems. as demand rises for more high quality roads, that demand was met by private corporations, but they charge a slight fee for use. of course our interstate highway system was a product of government, but to pretend like this was not going to be created regardless of government intervention is ludicrous. with that having been said, the fact that these roads would cross over state lines made it necessary for the federal government to take a vested interest. however: these likely would have been made, with or without any one individual you speak to on this site

2. train tracks. haha... you mean the private corporation train tracks, where you have to PAY for a train ticket? because i do not OWE anything to train companies in the form of my sovereignty. i have bestowed no powers upon them.

"you did not pay for the research which invented the internet,"

neither did we, that came from Switzerland. oh, but Americans think they were VERY important with that, huh? nope, we only subsidized making mass server webs over the country. any idiot with millions of tax dollars could have done that... or any 100,000 individuals with 10$ each could have done that. oh well, i guess we'll never know.

"you did not pay for your schooling or your teachers' schooling."

oh! one I like. because my parents generation was much smarter than mine, and they ONLY had municipalities and county funding. kind of makes you think that the shouldn't be a power the federal government should possess. maybe... a responsibility of the community (NOT SOCIETY)

"You did not invent the vaccines which kept you safe growing up, or the rest of the medical technology which has kept infant mortality down."

ok... vaccines aren't produced by government, and WAY more miracle drugs are created by biotechs and pharmaceutical companies than by public universities. frankly, government regulation that has led to massive increases in drug prices has HURT us, despite trying to create a better product. but the corporations, so... this is not something we owe to THEM... unless you want a conglomerate corporate government where we have quasi-dictatorship via proxy o-

oh yeah that's fascism.

"You owe everything to our collective."

actually, we owe it to other individuals. and in return, we either work for them with pay, we pay them for their product, or we produce a service they want in which they pay us.

whenever you say "collective" you're being too ambiguous. by what you're described in your paragraph, i owe the vast majority of my rights to corporations! Horrifying!!

"Our society. Not necessarily one state, a flawed attempt to realise the potential of our collective."

now this simply isn't a sentence, but i think you confuse helping to people across this nation, to helping to people nearby you.

helping people nearby you makes sense, as they directly affect what you do, and are a part of your life. people across the country don't affect what you do, beyond either internet or corporate connections, which generally doesn't signify poverty.

"But everything you have done, earned, or been a part of, exists soley because we are a social species."

yes! because it helped each of us as individuals.

furthermore, I find it hard to believe that i've ever been very social with some homeless person in New York. i can empathize about stories i hear, but i am not actually connected with these people.

when you look at what is being demanded, the strict adherence to nationalized healthcare actually seems racist.

there are two people: neither have affected my life in any way, both are dirt poor, both who need help to survive. one lives in Montana, one lives in China. why do we only care about the one in Montana? nationalism is a refuge for people who lack true principle.

I still find it amazing that we're still friends with China by the way. much of the country runs as a corporate slave state for the poor working class, i've met people who have left that country, not the foreign exchange students who have only seen luxury in their life but people who got the hell out as soon as they could.

you help those around you, and you encourage others across the world to do the same. you do no create government programs mandating funds to inefficient systems, which help to entrap some people in poverty as it liberates some others, all in an attempt to make us feel good about ourselves**

**maybe you individually care about the people receiving the care, but the collective aggregate are a bunch of virtue signaling kids who haven't had to work for anything in their life, so i'm going to judge YOU orathaic as an individual, off of what they say and do collectively.

it's only fair.